Now that the New Jersey govenor has come out to avoid a scandal with his male aid, why do you guys think he did not discribe himself as a Bi male instead of a gay male? The headlines are " I am a gay American" I ask because he is standing there with his wife who I did not see him intending to leave, asking for her forgiveness, and he has two kids. I am a Bi male. Marrried with 4 kids. I don't want to come out but I don't identify myself with the gay world completly. Am I stupid or misguided?
NEw Jersey Govenor
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I also found McGreevey's self-description a bit mysterious ... he must presumably have some attraction to women as a father of several children. I guess his choice of words reflects how he views himself, and if you're 95% attracted to men, "gay" is probably just as suitable a description as "bi." I did notice that he and his aides pointedly refused to say whether he and his wife will now divorce.
In general I think it's a shame he had to resign over this, as there have been many politicians who have done far worse and remained in office. New Jersey is a fairly progressive and tolerant state, so it's not as if he would've necessarily been booted just for being gay and/or having an extramarital fling. Presumably he's stepping down because there must be some pretty explosive, as-yet unknown aspects to this affair he had with a staffer.
Unfortunately a lot of the media coverage I've seen has either made it sound like he resigned solely because he was gay or said that he has "admitted" he was gay, which I think is a particularly poor/loaded choice of words as "admitted" implies a nefarious activity. For example, I think the headline in my newspaper this morning said, "N.J. governor admits he's gay, quits."
Steve
In general I think it's a shame he had to resign over this, as there have been many politicians who have done far worse and remained in office. New Jersey is a fairly progressive and tolerant state, so it's not as if he would've necessarily been booted just for being gay and/or having an extramarital fling. Presumably he's stepping down because there must be some pretty explosive, as-yet unknown aspects to this affair he had with a staffer.
Unfortunately a lot of the media coverage I've seen has either made it sound like he resigned solely because he was gay or said that he has "admitted" he was gay, which I think is a particularly poor/loaded choice of words as "admitted" implies a nefarious activity. For example, I think the headline in my newspaper this morning said, "N.J. governor admits he's gay, quits."
Steve
The complex issues of human sexuality, as is often discussed in these forums, isn't black and white -- and the label 'bisexual' is not a gray area.
My take on it: It's possible he identifies as a gay man because while he attempted to deny his sexuality with a wife and children, he may now find himself truly in the mind set of being gay. Just because a person has sex with a particular gender doesn't mean you're gay/straight/bi. Regarding the wife and children: Even though he may identify as gay, may not mean for him that he should leave his wife yet. He may love her and there's the issue of 'stayikng together for the children' which may not be a bad thing as long as both adults in the situation recognize the upside and downside and deal with it effectively.
The children, well, why wouldn't he want to continue to raise his children, either in a traditional family unit, or as a single/full-time/part-time father? It's been long ignored that gays and lesbians have children -- but we all come from some sort of family structure, so why wouldn't gays and lesbians have a desire to parent and nurture the same way they were brought up?
My only guess is that the two -- appearing quite amicable considering the circumstances -- will eventually separate and he'll be as a good a father as he can be.
The fact that he hasd an affair with an aide who is now bringing suit against him may have forced the issue of coming to terms with his orientation earlier than he'd wanted. If it hadn't happened he may have gone on forever without ever dealing with it, and potentially placing his wife at risk if they were still having a sexual relationship.
I think this also is a clear indicator that men who are married and play "on the down low" are potentially everywhere.
Long-winded, and only one possible explanation but I applaud him and his wife for their personal decisions -- but I'm not necessarily happy with his professional decision.
My take on it: It's possible he identifies as a gay man because while he attempted to deny his sexuality with a wife and children, he may now find himself truly in the mind set of being gay. Just because a person has sex with a particular gender doesn't mean you're gay/straight/bi. Regarding the wife and children: Even though he may identify as gay, may not mean for him that he should leave his wife yet. He may love her and there's the issue of 'stayikng together for the children' which may not be a bad thing as long as both adults in the situation recognize the upside and downside and deal with it effectively.
The children, well, why wouldn't he want to continue to raise his children, either in a traditional family unit, or as a single/full-time/part-time father? It's been long ignored that gays and lesbians have children -- but we all come from some sort of family structure, so why wouldn't gays and lesbians have a desire to parent and nurture the same way they were brought up?
My only guess is that the two -- appearing quite amicable considering the circumstances -- will eventually separate and he'll be as a good a father as he can be.
The fact that he hasd an affair with an aide who is now bringing suit against him may have forced the issue of coming to terms with his orientation earlier than he'd wanted. If it hadn't happened he may have gone on forever without ever dealing with it, and potentially placing his wife at risk if they were still having a sexual relationship.
I think this also is a clear indicator that men who are married and play "on the down low" are potentially everywhere.
Long-winded, and only one possible explanation but I applaud him and his wife for their personal decisions -- but I'm not necessarily happy with his professional decision.
i think that it was a good thing for him to do only if he did it to come clean with his family and supporters. i DO NOT, however, agree with how the news reporters are handling it. the blow it out of proportion by saying "he cheated on his wife in a HOMOSEXUAL AFFAIR!!!!!"
i just feel that the fact that he is gay has nothing to do with what he was trying to say. i support him for coming clean with himself, but i almost regret the fact that he will always be referred to as thay guy who cheated on his wife with a MAN and stepped down, but i guess that more of a reflection on american society, its a shame
i just feel that the fact that he is gay has nothing to do with what he was trying to say. i support him for coming clean with himself, but i almost regret the fact that he will always be referred to as thay guy who cheated on his wife with a MAN and stepped down, but i guess that more of a reflection on american society, its a shame
Really, I think the bottom line here is the fact that news of the suit being brought by his male lover was about to break. Would not this news was coming out (haha) along with the fact that you as the Gov. had put him on the states payroll, in jobs he didn't show up for very often and certainly wasn't qualified for, make you want to resign too? As a gay man I can't defend him when the gay issue is coupled with questionable if not illegal activities in office. Were it just the "coming out" story, no lawsuit no criminal activity, then I would praise him. Can't at the moment, however.
- jonb,
Well, it's more on a continuum. You can be straight but occasionally fool around with MOTSS or even have a relationship with them, you can be gay but occasionally fool around with MOTOS or even have a relationship with them. And then there's bi, that unique balance of liking both about the same.
rckftu2002:
Do we have to identify ourselves (completely) with the gay world before we consider ourselves gay? Some things about that world I can't accept/approve, but I have finally become able to admit that I am gay. I was married 29 years, have three children and three grandchildren, and have lived my life with conflicts and guilts. Having the children, however, has made it all worthwhile.
When I first became a LPSG member, I listed myself as "bi", because, hey, I'm a Father and had sex regularly with a female for 29 years -- that proves it! I knew all along I was fooling myself, but I'm through grasping for straws. I, too, am a gay American.
Governor McGreevey is going through hell now, but I hope he knows there are so many of us who have compassion for him and understand. He feels himself as gay, as I do myself, although we could 'get by' by saying we are bi.
You are the only one, rckftu, who can make the decision re. coming out. You feel it's more important to sustain your family life for the sake of your children and wife and that is to be respected and admired. No, you're not stupid or misguided, you're honorable and willing to sacrifice being your 'total' self for their good.
May the force be with you, my fellow LPSG and with Governor McGreevey and all others who have to live in conflict with society's standards.
Peace,
Luke, aka RoysToy
Yeah, and as you point out, KinkGuy, not only was the suit about to hit the news and that the employee wasn't necessarily qulaified, but that this guy was trying to blackmail the governor for "millions of dollars."
Sad that he was forced out, sad that he compromised sound judgement, unfair to his wife, and sad that his children will now have a part-time dad... but the blackmailing loser is really the one who disgraces gay men.
:angry:
suaige: lots of good comments here.
my thoughts on original question. I had a lot of gay issues while I was married and it did not make things easy, but I really did love my wife and my daughter. To me that was way more important than having relations with a guy. Being attracted to both sexes isnt in and of its self isn't bad,deciding to do with it is whats important. I have since resolved a lot of those issued and consider my self hetro maybe 90/10. I noticed that is how you identified yourself. If that is accurate, I would say the family is the greatest reward. Admitting to the bi part of you is important in dealing with it appropriately. Being a part time dad is about the most paintul thing I have ever had to do.
As for resigning. With the lawsuit coming it could seriously interfere with the runnig of the state. My brothr is a state legislature. The house and senate usually will only meet if both are there. It is pretty useless to meet one without the other. Neither can meet without the gov. in the capital bldg. Each house has to have the permission of the other AND of the governor to close a session. If the gov was always in court and etc. It could really mess things up.
my thoughts on original question. I had a lot of gay issues while I was married and it did not make things easy, but I really did love my wife and my daughter. To me that was way more important than having relations with a guy. Being attracted to both sexes isnt in and of its self isn't bad,deciding to do with it is whats important. I have since resolved a lot of those issued and consider my self hetro maybe 90/10. I noticed that is how you identified yourself. If that is accurate, I would say the family is the greatest reward. Admitting to the bi part of you is important in dealing with it appropriately. Being a part time dad is about the most paintul thing I have ever had to do.
As for resigning. With the lawsuit coming it could seriously interfere with the runnig of the state. My brothr is a state legislature. The house and senate usually will only meet if both are there. It is pretty useless to meet one without the other. Neither can meet without the gov. in the capital bldg. Each house has to have the permission of the other AND of the governor to close a session. If the gov was always in court and etc. It could really mess things up.
pervasiveone
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Kudos to Jonb. I completly agree. After several sessions with my psychologist regarding sexual identity, we got into a debate on the whole gay/straight thing. Like as in how some people believe they are born a certain way, how some people believe it is a permanent choice, a fling, ect.... After all of my thoughts he shared with me his view that it is all on a continium, with the extremes being completly hetero and homo-sexual.
Was a very intresting concept. He later pointed out to me that over time we may slide along the continium based on needs and desires.
The press is making a big mess out of this.... a few months from now, it will all be water under the bridge. Notice how little they even acknowledge Sadum Husaain???
We are living in a modern society that is evoloving to accept people for who they are and not discriminate against people for living a life based on who they believe they are.
30 years ago who would have ever thought that a Professional Wrestler would be elected as governer, a imigrant bodybuilder/actor as govner, a female govener. Time change as do people, beliefs, and acceptances.
My 2 cents for the week.
Hope everyone has a great weekend.
-Ryan
Was a very intresting concept. He later pointed out to me that over time we may slide along the continium based on needs and desires.
The press is making a big mess out of this.... a few months from now, it will all be water under the bridge. Notice how little they even acknowledge Sadum Husaain???
We are living in a modern society that is evoloving to accept people for who they are and not discriminate against people for living a life based on who they believe they are.
30 years ago who would have ever thought that a Professional Wrestler would be elected as governer, a imigrant bodybuilder/actor as govner, a female govener. Time change as do people, beliefs, and acceptances.
My 2 cents for the week.
Hope everyone has a great weekend.
-Ryan
Holy crap. Please, Eccchi, no... no... a thousand times no. And no, I did not vote for Jesse. He took a $4 billion dollar surplus (under a (moderate) Republican governor that I liked very much and voted for), and turned it into a $3 billion dollar defecit. Plus, Jesse acted like a spoiled child half the time. Seriously.
Oh, and there he is.
Golan Cipel
Gold digger? Extortioist? Fame flame? Victim?
My guess is it'll never end up in court, so the truth won't be known.
Golan Cipel
Gold digger? Extortioist? Fame flame? Victim?
My guess is it'll never end up in court, so the truth won't be known.
Think he has a big one? Otherwise, nothing to write home about. No experience with Israeli's (sp? usage?...3 beers, not sure) they reportedly "hung" or not? May have to do research project. One of my good friends (jewish) and a serious exhibitionist, has the longest thinest cock I have ever seen in my life. Oh, he's cut too :lol: :lol: :lol:
MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK
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No, you're just human, with the right to choose when and if you decide to disclose to others various aspects of your life.
- jonb,
Think he has a big one? Otherwise, nothing to write home about. No experience with Israeli's (sp? usage?...3 beers, not sure) they reportedly "hung" or not? May have to do research project. One of my good friends (jewish) and a serious exhibitionist, has the longest thinest cock I have ever seen in my life. Oh, he's cut too :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
Well, if he's a citizen of Israel, he's an Israeli. The plural is Israelis, but they prefer $80 Billion in Foreign Aid-Americans. (LOL) Israel itself has only been in existence for 56 years, not long enough to come up with a stereotype. (Canada's been in existence longer, but no one's ever said anything about whether or not Canadians are hung.)
MisterMark
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I think it's important to consider the big picture. I do have empathy for the governor because I know that there are thousands of men just like him in America. One lie often begets another lie. This has got to be a very painful time for him and his family. I hope they can somehow work through all of this and maybe someday, they can be happy again with what will undoubtedly be very different lives from what they know today.
This might be very optimistic, but I can see McGreevey becoming a very well-respected man in the future, and even a role model for those of us who knew we were "different" from a young age. Hopefully, time will heal. In the meantime, I hope he writes a book about his experiences.
He needs to listen to Erasure's "Hideaway".
(Yes, I'm a child of the 80s.):One day the boy decided
To let them know the way he felt inside
He could not stand to hide it
His mother she broke down and cried
Oh my father
Why don't you talk to me now
Oh my mother
Do you still cry yourself to sleep
Are you still proud of your little boy
Don't be afraid
You don't have to hide away
The boy he was rejected
By the people that he cared for
It's not what they expected
But he could not keep it secret anymore
Far from home now
Waiting by the telephone
There's a new world
You can make it on your own
Are you still proud of your little boy
Don't be afraid
You don't have to hide away
Don't be afraid
Love will mend your broken wing
Time will slip away
Learn to be brave
Okay, now I'm getting emotional.
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