New relationship & depression

[Passion4Oldies]

Hey all! I don't post on here often.. only when I'm dissatisfied with the counsel and insight that my close friends provide..

I entered into a relationship in the middle of February, right after Valentine's Day. He and I met on Grindr in our very small community, which I am new to, and hit it off chatting. Neither of us were looking for anything, just a nice chat and see what happens. Towards the end of the conversation on Grindr, I said that it's easier to text. He agreed and we texted throughout the next day. After a day of texting, I invited him over to hangout and watch a movie. I warned him that my TV was in my bedroom, and that we could move it to the front room, so we could sit on the couch. He said don't worry about it.

He came over, and it was mutual love at first sight - instant attraction. We watched youtube videos together, talked, joked around and got to know one another. We went to my bedroom to watch a movie and started cuddling. I don't remember anything serious happening. Anyways, like I said, it was love at first sight.

Fast forward over the next 6 - 8 weeks, and we see each other at least once every day, and he would sleep over most nights and we would be intimate. It settled into a nice relationship, where we could be together, working on separate things, or be together and being romantic. We spoke of future goals, dreams and desires, and mostly ended up wanting the same things.

He shared with me that three and a half years ago, he was in a three year relationship that ended with his partner dying of cancer. This happened when he was 22 years old. We are now both 25.

Now, in the middle of April, I noticed he started pulling back.. Blowing me off and not really reciprocating. I gave him space, and it was very difficult. Finally, at the end of April, I asked him what was going on, and he said, "I need time and space and to slow down." I said, "That's fine, no problem, except I've given you space the last three weeks, and yea.." So, being unable to let it out of my mind, I pushed it a bit further over the next week and he finally said, "I just don't feel the same way about you.. I can only offer you friendship at this time because of things going on in my life."

I discovered he is depressed and suffers from it daily.

Needless to say, by his choosing, we have ended things romantically. I am still very much in love with him.

Doing my research about depression and relationships, it seems that often times, those who are depressed push people away because they don't want to bring the other down, don't feel worthy, feel guilty, etc. I told him that I love him regardless of his mood or his outlook on life, and just want what's best for him. He says he loves me too, but can only offer friendship at the time. I have decided - despite my friends calling me a fool - to not abandon this person and do my best to support him as a friend and help him get to a better place. It's not my job - nor in my abilities - to fix someone, but if I truly love someone, how can I leave them when they tell me I'm one of their closest friends (and he is mine, too)?

As you can tell, it's frustrating, but I have a sense of hope that I believe things are going to iron themselves out and just work. The funny thing is, is I see him more NOW and spend MORE quality time with him NOW than we did in the month of April.. For example, last night, he came over from work - ditching his brother's birthday party - because he enjoys my company more and he can "be himself" around me. Every time we are together, I feel like we are on a date, despite there being no intimacy or hinting. I am not reading into anything, but the things that we talk about, the closeness and everything feels normal, minus we aren't sleeping together.

I know there is no way to tell the future, but I guess has anyone else had experiences with this situation? I figured out I'm holding out hope because I want to see him get better and see if things could work out once he sees and believes that I love him regardless of his ups and downs, and that he can be real with me at all times. My friends tell me I'm torturing myself, but I then explain that, while I have that hope, I would much rather help him through (and him help me, too) his dark and low time and NOT have him be with me, than abandon him and "pull back" to save myself some heartache. Of course, at the time, I want to be with him and I do believe he IS the ONE, but obviously you can't force, and I wouldn't want him if I could force it.

I guess I believe that by loving him regardless, supporting him through it, and growing our friendship, that perhaps the intimacy will come back (he said he hasn't jacked off in over a month, because he's just not into anything and has no desire). Yea, I know it's setting me up for heartache down the road, but I guess I have to see that it won't work out when he's healthy and balanced and we are better and closer friends to actually give up that hope.

We were so happy... so cute.. so together.. it was so wonderful. Sure, it wasn't perfect and we had our little differences, but we never fought or argued. We would have discussion and agree to disagree, but that was it. We communicated. We were honest. And it was true love.

Anyways, I know I'm all over the place.. Any insight? Encouragement? Discouragement? Even if everyone told me to stop, I don't honestly think I could... But I guess I just had to get it down.

Also, feel free to disagree with me or take issue with what I'm doing, but I prefer constructive and useful comments and criticism.

Thanks in advanced.

 

[BillM]

Just RELAX and it will all CUM together, you stated you see him more now then before and take it slow you do not need to be picking out CHINA!!!! Bill

 

[shard38]

Is he getting any help with his depression? It's wonderful you're supporting him and not leaving him out in the dark. Too often people who suffer from depression see their social circles break down until they are all alone.

But if he's really suffering from it he needs professional help. Just being with you isn't going to cure him.

 

[Passion4Oldies]

Thanks for your responses... It certainly feels like I'm doing the right thing, but you never know (you can rationalize anything). I'm totally cool with taking it slow and developing the friendship, I guess I was curious if I should keep a bit of hope alive or just give up.

Secondly, he brought up he wanted to see a counselor a month or so into our relationship, and I supported him. Since then, we have talked about it and he feels as if they are a waste of time, having gone to two of them in the past.

I just had my best friend commit suicide from depression, so I am taking time to research and read about how I can be a positive influence and support for those who suffer from it. As such, I am reading a book called "Flourish" which is all about the power of positive thinking and it's effects on those with depression. I told him that I'm reading it for many reasons, but to better help and understand those with depression, and that he would read it if I found it worthwhile. He said he would.

I know I'm not a counselor - just a music teacher with a passion for people - but I think that being there as a support, loving him through it, and helping when and where I can will greatly help him through what he's dealing with. He's tried the meds and he's tried the counseling, and neither do anything for him.

Thanks again for the responses!!

 

[alcor972]

I like how you describe and tell us your relationship with your friend...
I think your story is beautiful... and I'm very impressed to see that you are able to spend time together without having sexuel intercourses...
I can't do this...
I don't see any reason for your relationship to stop...
just follow bill's and shard's advises... lol... don't leave him without medical help...
I wish you to be happy with him!...

 

[Passion4Oldies]

I'm not going to lie, it's very hard (pun intended) to hang out with him and not be able to hold him, cuddle him, kiss him and be with him.. But I guess it's worth it. We all go through times - especially in relationships - where maybe it's not fair for one person or the other at all times, but that doesn't mean you just back down, right? Yea, I know it's only been like three and a half months since I've met this guy and fallen in love, but that's how I feel about him... that's HE is worth investing time into as a person, even if it means that I don't get to be with him at the end of the day.

I appreciate the encouragement.. truly.. it's a nice change from my friends, "It's only going to cause you heartache.. keep your distance.. don't see him as often.. blah blah blah." I won't abandon him.. he's become one of my best - if not my best - friend up here in this new place I find myself (Ukiah, CA), so it's not easy to just cut someone like that out of your life or minimize your exposure, ESPECIALLY considering he's dealing with depression.

I just need to relax and chill and enjoy our time together. I feel bad, because almost every other day, I bring up something about depression or us or something, and he just looks so fatigued and shuts it down.. which is a sign of depression. So that's hard.. but, we'll get through it, one way or another!

Thanks all.. any other perspectives?

 

[622675]

You write with elegance and understanding, but you face two very slippery issues.

First you don’t need a pet or a social project. You can’t afford to loose yourself and your kind aspirations in this relationship. You must retain a clear perspective from which clear judgments can be made.

Second, neither you nor your friend will benefit from an enabler. At some point you both will need to agree on what kind of relationship you are going to work toward and then follow that path.

 

[Passion4Oldies]

Levi, I agree with both of your points!

I can't fix him, nor is it my job to fix anyone, even if I could! I merely want to support him and love him through it, as a friend or otherwise. I am not losing myself, but I am certainly reading and researching a lot (I teach, so learning about depression and how to help people through it with positivity is something I can add to my wheel house, regardless of potentially helping this man I love). I can't do it for him. I know that. But if I can help him along his way, then what's the harm?

Secondly, I don't feel like I'm enabling him. He has made it clear that, as of right now, he cannot offer me more than friendship. I believe it's due to the depression, making him want to pull back and not have commitments or bring people down, or the added stress of being with someone intimately. So, yes, from his point of view, it makes sense to just be friends, because that's all he can see, unless there is more that he's not telling me. Right now, I have told him that I will be his friend and love him through it and support him how I can, and that while I'm hopeful things work out in the future, that is secondary to seeing someone I care and love get through a tough time.

This book I am reading, which he will hopefully read when I'm done with it, isn't about enabling, it's about what makes a "happy" life and how to achieve it, through self-sustaining and self-purporting activities. It's all about the power of being genuinely, intentionally and honestly positive with yourself, by yourself, and through yourself. Once again, I'm not a therapist, but I feel that being there to talk, have dinner, have a drink, go to a movie and ride bikes with is something that benefits me (I love spending time with him and want to get to know him better, romantic or not), and benefits him (companionship, company, friendship, honesty, distraction) equally.

I agree, though, it is a slippery slope and could turn into something very disastrous. I'm doing my best to stay back and absorb the information I can, let him make the decisions he wants to better his life or not, and then enjoy, encourage, love and support him as he goes through the process.

Thank you for your thoughtful insight.. any response to that? Did I misunderstand, or any additional concerns?

 

[622675]

Here is the address to a study that you might find useful. However, before reading through the bulletin report, look at the appendix on page 374. There are a number of questions there that are designed to help strangers become friends and more. The Interpersonal Study explains how they work. Discussion evoked through these questions might go a long way to encourage bonding between the two individuals.

http://psp.sagepub.com/content/23/4...ion=click&contentCollection=meter-links-click

 

[KennF]

I'm agreeing with @levi101. While I think what you're doing is admirable, but am concerned about two areas.

First, assuming that everything works out, it is very likely that you will be his crutch. That can be great for friends. But at some point a relationship has to be equals.

My other concern is that, if he recognizes his depression, is he seeking professional help for it. If not, then in a way you maybe enabling him.

 

[shard38]

I agree with @KennF A depression will not go away without treatment, be it therapy, medication or counselling. You really should urge him to get help. It's a serious illness, he needs proper care.

 

[Passion4Oldies]

Good morning!

It's funny you guys bring up being a crutch, because he felt that the relationship was a crutch, blinding him from dealing with things. I cannot be his counselor and his crutch, but at a certain level, I feel that, friends or partner, that you are each responsible for being a support system for yoir significant other.

I have asked him if he feels he needs to go to a counselor, and he said he will consider it, but they he feels the therapists he's used and drugs he's been on have only made the problem worse.

All that I am doing, at this point, is supporting him and not abandoning him, reading and researching, and encouraging him to find help, get help, and work on himself. I feel that, while it could turn into a codependent situation, that as long as I stay focused on my goal of being his friend, being honest with him and encouraging him to take action, then things will be okay. At this point, I do not feel like a crutch at all.

Thank you for your insight and observations. Despite my playing devil's advocate, I do appreciate the input and concerns - things of which I may not have thought about being an issue.

Thank you!! Anyone have experience with a relationship or situation like this?

 

[KennF]

Anyone have experience with a relationship or situation like this?

More than one, without the relationship before hand, however. I've dealt with bipolar depression and codependencies/enabling, all my life with my family.

It is why I expressed my concerns.

The relationship can be social support, as can your friendship, but the fact that your friends are all saying that you should distance yourself, you rejected that, and you came here, suggests that you aren't keeping yourself separate from his illness. And I concern myself that your aren't being objective.

As for him, the fact that he's pushing the relationship away, but not the friendship, reads like a self-worth issue. The only thing I can suggest is that he either needs to make the decision to seek treatment, even if he feels it makes things worse, or you need to consider your own mental well being and distance yourself.

Most depression sufferers feel that the treatment makes things worse, especially in the beginning. They are forced to face the issues that are driving them away and disassociating them from others. That can be painful and debilitating for a while. But until someone goes through that, they aren't likely to get better. They aren't able to reach acceptance.

I appreciate your willingness to be friends, and I am not opposed to friendship, but I think you are holding onto hope or fixing-him, and both of those are gateways to enabling and/or codependency. You should consider the balance of your health and his long-term health.

 

[Passion4Oldies]

More than one, without the relationship before hand, however. I've dealt with bipolar depression and codependencies/enabling, all my life with my family.

It is why I expressed my concerns.

The relationship can be social support, as can your friendship, but the fact that your friends are all saying that you should distance yourself, you rejected that, and you came here, suggests that you aren't keeping yourself separate from his illness. And I concern myself that your aren't being objective.

I guess that it wasn't fair to negate my friends' opinions and discount them. I was merely saying that, I believe all they see is a break up and someone using me (having his cake and eating it too.) I didn't feel that they saw the entire situation objectively, and only saw it from one side. That's all.

I asked him about the therapists, thinking the same thing, but he said that, at least around here, they either at there and told him stories, or he sat there and talked, and received nothing back but awkward stares. Obviously, I'm still encouraging him to get help in that way, but I am also encouraging him to pursue some self-help stuff (not as a replacement).

I am definitely holding out hope that we get back together.. Haha! But that's not the main motive for doing this. And as far as fixing him, I know that I cannot do anything, but support him and encourage him to get help and work on helping himself.

I hope you don't see this as argumentative or ungrateful... I really do value your experiences and insight. It's given me a ton to think about and consider as I deal with this situation!

 

[KennF]

I asked him about the therapists, thinking the same thing, but he said that, at least around here, they either at there and told him stories, or he sat there and talked, and received nothing back but awkward stares. Obviously, I'm still encouraging him to get help in that way, but I am also encouraging him to pursue some self-help stuff (not as a replacement).

Often, and I speak from personal experience, this type of therapist does a LOT more than most clients realize. The type that lets him talk and tell him stories is EXACTLY the type of therapy he should be looking for.

Depression therapy isn't about some outside person telling you how to fix yourself. The therapist actually directs, restates, looks for commonality, reflects, and listens. He/She should listen for most of the session and speak rarely or at least encourage conversation in certain areas.

I recall my own therapy sessions. The therapist would listen to four or five stories or about my past or about situations and he would find the common thread. He would then restate or point out the common theme in them. It allowed me to realize that I was misdirecting my feelings and emotions. I was doing all the work. He was providing me with an external space to correlate and vent the emotions... he created the safe space for ME to do the work of fixing myself.

From the outside looking in, and from my earliest sessions, I thought he wasn't doing anything. But after the first couple of times that he reconnected earlier stories to earlier events and emotions, I realized he was doing ALOT more than I understood at first.

Just some inside perspective.

 

[Passion4Oldies]

I appreciate the response.. I will absolutely pass along this information and strongly encourage him to get some professional help.

Thank you for taking the time to share your story and your experiences.

Josh

 

[rtg]

As someone who has lived with depression and anxiety for over ten years I honestly wish that I found someone like you. Most men don't know how to deal with it and run scared at the first sight of it. You sound like a great guy and he's lucky to have you in his life and your support.

It sounds like things will probably work out for you two but just make sure you don't pressure him into it. Once he sorts his stuff out a bit better he will remember that you were there the whole time with him. Try not to stress too much... If he didn't want you around then he wouldn't keep seeing you. It's very easy to withdraw when you're in a depressive state so the fact that he's still seeing you is a positive sign.

I hope it all works out for you.

 

[Passion4Oldies]

As someone who has lived with depression and anxiety for over ten years I honestly wish that I found someone like you. Most men don't know how to deal with it and run scared at the first sight of it. You sound like a great guy and he's lucky to have you in his life and your support.

It sounds like things will probably work out for you two but just make sure you don't pressure him into it. Once he sorts his stuff out a bit better he will remember that you were there the whole time with him. Try not to stress too much... If he didn't want you around then he wouldn't keep seeing you. It's very easy to withdraw when you're in a depressive state so the fact that he's still seeing you is a positive sign.

I hope it all works out for you.

Got cow! Thank you SO much for your response and insight. Last night was rough, with some personal family news that left me upset. I went to him for some support, and he was unable to really give me what I needed. Needless to say, it was very frustrating to be hurting and not have him emotionally available. With your response, it's very encouraging to know that it is welcome for people who suffer with depression, and that makes it all worth it.

It's hard, but I just have to keep the end goal in focus and know that it might be a bumpy road on the way to the destination.

Thanks for your kind words, encouragement and sharing your story!

Josh

 

[Passion4Oldies]

So, just a little update.. After a pretty rough weekend, despite my best efforts to relax and let things chill, we hung out on Sunday evening. We went for a nice bike ride and then hung out at my house and chatted for a bit.. in total, we hung out for an hour and a half or so. It was a wonderful time.. I LOVE spending time with him, and him me.

Of course, I had to bring up our relationship for a moment. That went over as it usually does - him feeling bad and me just feeling.

However, it was once he left I had an epiphany. We DO have a fundamental difference, and it's called "commitment."

I have finally pieced together - replaying conversations and hearing things again on Sunday - that he doesn't want to be tied down to a place, a job, or really anything. He wants to travel - in his words, he sees it as "independence." I, on the other hand, am looking to start building a family in the next few years, and settling down into a committed, loving relationship. The first 6-8 weeks, we were both on the same page, and then I think he flipped out, realizing that he was getting comfortable talking about the future, and seeing it as taking away his independence. Anyways, this has really helped me to come to terms with the situation and finally see it objectively.

Here's the kicker, which no one may know... I have researched that depression causes one to withdraw, we all know that, and that THAT is the reason for his detachment and unwillingness to let down an anchor. He has mentioned many times - on many different occasions - the fact that he doesn't perform well when there are expectations, pressure, or requirements. I never pieced it together, until Sunday, that it's all pointing to the same thing - commitment issues, insecurity and the idea of building something real and long lasting.

While this (current?) conclusion takes a massive load off my shoulders, it does not change how I feel about it. I still hope we have a future as a couple, perhaps, but I now (think I) understand what happened, why it happened, and that it's just the way it is.

Anyways, thanks for the words and the comfort.. I just wanted to provide a small update.

Josh

 

[950483]

No you haven't had an epiphany. What he is telling you is NO. That's all...NO. His reasons or your cleverly convoluted underlying causes are immaterial. Please for your own sake just accept it.