NFL Player gunned down in home.

RupinX

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No. Someone should have the right to own a gun if they want. I have had many guns over the years. I dont like them in my house and i am down to one and its not mine. Its about rights. It is her right to own and have one. If this man were stabbed would we be talking about Knifes in such a manor? Its the law. Im against Abortion. Its also the law that a woman can have one if she wants too. So im for whatever the Law is. Interesting that Guns and Abortion kill people. I dont like either.

Why is that such an important right? I am not sure if you are from America or not, but did you know that in most states it is illegal to have fireworks? I mean so I can walk down the street with a AK 47 semi automatic assault rifle, but if I have a firecracker I can get a ticket.

If he were to have been stabbed we wouldn't be having this conversation. But there is a difference. Knives serve several purposes in our lives. Guns have only one.
 

Osiris

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Thank you!! My point exactly. Every time there is gun violence for some peculiar reason that percentage of the population gets very defensive about their right to a gun. Baffles me.

(Waiting for the "it is not about guns, but about taking away our rights" speech).

As much as I love the right to bear arms, if it is proven it is for the general welfare, why would I complain about my rights? My gripes are with the NRA zealots who stand behind the Second Amendment. There needs to be some SERIOUS gun education at an early age. I had it and I think that is why you will never hear of me using a gun irresponsibly or against another human. I am adamant that my kids not have toys that look like real guns, this sends a child a very confusing message about guns, especially if you won't allow them to be educated about their benefits and dangers. If we are going to have gun control and a chance at it working, then the government and law enforcement really neeup to the plate. Taking out some little gang member selling a gun or two is nothing. Go after the guys giving him the guns. Then you will make a dent in the illegal gun game.

Osiris, I hear you and agree with what you say about parents being better parents. I also think their needs to be more discipline taught at a young age in households and schools.

However, regardless of how vocal parents are, if a kid chooses to drink underage that is one thing. Packin' a gun is on a completely different level. So wouldn't be better if that option were just completely eliminated?

I have a 16 year old and he is drinking, smoking, gotten into serious legal trouble, etc. We are stepping in to keep him from falling further, but I have only had the child for the last 3 years. Unfortunately my wife and his biological father spent so much energy fighting each other, he got lost to a degree. Even the best of parents can fail, but unless you make the attempt, how will you ever know how effective you can be.

As to schools, I am not so sure that burden should fall to them. For every responsible parent, you have a latchkey kid parent who is so totally oblivious to their child's life that when things go wrong, they will hold anyone but themselves at fault. The schools get enough flack. Let the parents and the family deal with this one as it should be.
 

Mr. Snakey

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Why is that such an important right? I am not sure if you are from America or not, but did you know that in most states it is illegal to have fireworks? I mean so I can walk down the street with a AK 47 semi automatic assault rifle, but if I have a firecracker I can get a ticket.

If he were to have been stabbed we wouldn't be having this conversation. But there is a difference. Knives serve several purposes in our lives. Guns have only one.
The Right not being an important fact as its the law. I stated two laws in our country. Abortion and Gun's. We can go on about the right to have an Abortion or the right to have a Gun but it's the LAW. Plain and simple. What kills more people every year in our country Gun's or Abortion? I respect the two laws. You have given me food for thought. Very interesting.
 

odd_fish_9

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Exactly because it was not something even thought of 230 years ago. In the same way that random household shootings and modern day gun violence never was. I tend to think that is George, Ben, and Tom were around today after they rip their wigs off in shock, they would unanimously agree that this was not what they had in mind.
So what you're saying is that back when American civil rights were for white guys of English and Scots extraction, guns in the hands of the public weren't a menace. But now that the franchise and everything else has been extended to everyone, guns are all of a sudden a problem.

That may or may not be true. But in either case, modern liberal theories of government and society reject it out of hand. So you won't see it as the rationale for any modern laws.
 

ShowOff

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Originally Posted by ShowOff http://www.lpsg.org/images36/buttons/viewpost.gif
...ROTFLMAO :biggrin1: The majority of school shootings in the USA have taken place in rural or suburban white neighborhoods. NOT urban environments. but I believe you are missing the point. Its too late to outlaw guns... didnt work for drugs, wont work for weapons.

NJGT466 I think you might have misquoted me. I never said what you claim or brought color into the conversation. Please reread my post and if you need me to elaborate further, please let me know.
Here to make things easy the question asked by rupin was
Honestly, how often do you hear of a citizen that defended and protected his family against criminals thanks to the gun he owned?
To which my reply was:
Believe it or not I hear it quite often, but you need to be in the areas or around the people where a shooting might occur (ie low income urban areas)
 

odd_fish_9

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So you don't think that there will ever be a time when certain "fundamental civil rights" need to be reviewed?
I hope not. You won't hear me singing the praises of the totalitarian state.

Sacrificing liberties in hopes of gaining order tends to result in the loss of both. It was Ben who said something about that.
 

odd_fish_9

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In the past there have been great proposed amendments for our constitution for the betterment of society i.e. reproductive rights for women, to establish the right to a home etc...
Great successes, like, say, Prohibition.

The US still hasn't fully recovered from that disaster. There are distinct limits to how much society can be remodeled by the simple wave of a legislative pen. We ignore those limits at our peril.
 

odd_fish_9

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Every time there is gun violence for some peculiar reason that percentage of the population gets very defensive about their right to a gun. Baffles me.
It's trivially obvious; simple cause and effect. What is the bafflement about? Certain parties try to use every incident they can to eviscerate civil rights for us all, and other parties then try to resist those attempts. Keep in mind that the NRA is one of America's premier civil rights organizations. The fact that it is concerned with a civil right which doesn't have your approval doesn't change that.
 

Big en

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The constitution is antiquated and yes some things do need to be updated. America was a different place in 1776. I haven't been held up on the stagecoach recently.
 

Osiris

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The constitution is antiquated and yes some things do need to be updated. America was a different place in 1776. I haven't been held up on the stagecoach recently.

Where's Ed69 when you need him?

Ed and I both addressed this issue. Yes the Second Amendment on first look may be antiquated, but what about those who still live in the terribly rural areas where it is not so easy to get a policeman out to your door. Hell, it takes at least an hour in most cities to get a cop.

My point being whereas one person may not need a gun, there are still practical food harvestry purposes for some weapons (not all) and the obvious protection it can provide. You hear of more idiiotic shooting incnidents in urban areas than out in the country. There are a plethora of reasons this happens and I don't have the time to get into all of them.
 

Big en

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Where's Ed69 when you need him?

Ed and I both addressed this issue. Yes the Second Amendment on first look may be antiquated, but what about those who still live in the terribly rural areas where it is not so easy to get a policeman out to your door. Hell, it takes at least an hour in most cities to get a cop.



It probably takes less time for a criminal to shoot you. So make guns less acessible to just any 18 year old and perhaps there will be less likely a need for a gun to defend yourself. Simplistic sure but what is America doing in the mean time? Nothing......

My point being whereas one person may not need a gun, there are still practical food harvestry purposes for some weapons (not all) and the obvious protection it can provide. You hear of more idiiotic shooting incnidents in urban areas than out in the country. There are a plethora of reasons this happens and I don't have the time to get into all of them.

Fine but who shots deer with a hand gun? No one. Regulate hand guns?
 

Principessa

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ESPN - Redskins' Taylor dies from injury in shooting - NFLdamn...[/quote] That is a shame. My heart goes out to his family and friends. :frown1:

The constitution is antiquated and yes some things do need to be updated. America was a different place in 1776. I haven't been held up on the stagecoach recently.
That may well be, however I still know people who depend upon deer hunting season as a source of meat for their families.:rolleyes:


That's funny: English labelling our form of government antiquated.
tee hee hee I want to see Clarence Thomas in one of those cute, curly, white wigs.


Where's Ed69 when you need him? :tongue:
Ed and I both addressed this issue. Yes the Second Amendment on first look may be antiquated, but what about those who still live in the terribly rural areas where it is not so easy to get a policeman out to your door. Hell, it takes at least an hour in most cities to get a cop. Chil' please, and don't sound black or hispanic they might not get there at all.

My point being whereas one person may not need a gun, there are still practical food harvestry purposes for some weapons (not all) and the obvious protection it can provide. You hear of more idiotic shooting incnidents in urban areas than out in the country. There are a plethora of reasons this happens and I don't have the time to get into all of them.
hmmm, hadn't thought about that but you may have something there. Could it be because people in the country have legitimate reasons for needing guns? In addition they have respect for human life and they teach their children how to properly use a gun from an early age.

Many shootings in urban environments occur by gangbangers who couldnt hit the broad side of a barn if you paid them.
 

Big en

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hmmm, hadn't thought about that but you may have something there. Could it be because people in the country have legitimate reasons for needing guns? In addition they have respect for human life and they teach their children how to properly use a gun from an early age.[/font]

Many shootings in urban environments occur by gangbangers who couldnt hit the broad side of a barn if you paid them.


You are probably right to be honest. I was given a gun (4-10 rifle) when I was about 8-10 years old. God knows why I hated the thing, but I was taught how to use it. I was a country boy so we didn't just pop down to Wal-mart and by a gun..it was for hunting
 

SpeedoGuy

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I'm not sure I'm convinced that rural people necessarily have more respect for firearms than urbanites. Day-to-day familiarity? Yes. Respect? Arguable.

I've seen plenty of cases of careless use of firearms by country folk: Innumerable shot up rural road signs, gates and property, shotgun shells and empty casings (and beer cans) left to rust around campgrounds and hunting spots, firearms left loaded around children, shooting too close to populated areas, campgrounds and highways, etc. And, worst, a friend of mine who was mountain biking was shot and killed by a hung over elk hunter who didn't know what he was aiming at.