NHS Lies

[tomthelad91]

Right
I want to clear this up right now.

Loads of Americans are speading lies about how 'Terrible' the NHS is.

One person just commented on a post saying '100,000 people died from NHS Errors in the UK last year'

512,541 people died in TOTAL in the UK last year.

of these, 2,000 died from NHS failings.
Not 100,000; 2,000

0.00003% of the UK Population died from NHS errors


0.0001% of the US Population died from having no health Insurance (45,000 out of a population of 32,000,000)


American Republicans can trash Obama's plans as much as they want.
But how DARE they spread lies about the British System.

Unless you've actually experiences the NHS. Don't comment on it
Don't trash our country to try and justify your disgusting, evil, fascist agenda.

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

Get ready for a war boys!

This is gonna be a long one!

 

[eurotop40]

Right
...
American Republicans can trash Obama's plans as much as they want.
But how DARE they spread lies about the British System.

Unless you've actually experiences the NHS. Don't comment on it
Don't trash our country to try and justify your disgusting, evil, fascist agenda.

I am afraid you are right...

 

[798686]

The NHS is a good (if costly) thing. Most Brits are proud of it, even tho we moan incessantly about it.

When it was first introduced and ppl flocked to it who hadnt been able to see a doc for years - it uncovered a huge amount of underlying/undetected illness. It was a brilliant achievement to be able to deal with a lot of this. Sorely tested the system for a few yrs tho before settling down - maybe something similar will happen in the US? Worth it to have a generally healthy population tho.

 

[FuzzyKen]

Thanks Tom for clearing this up. I am in the U.S., but I have many friends worldwide under healthcare systems which are single pay systems similar to yours. When all of this garbage started I started out asking questions and lots of them. Friends in Scotland confirmed what you have said here.

What many here do not realize is that the real problem makers are those who stand to lose money and billions in profits if a similar system were enacted in the United States. I have also been told that the system in France is very good as well.

Tom, it is about time that we in the United States had health care that we did not have to worry about every day. Here we fear losing our homes based on an illness and crushing debt. Many Americans already have had this fate and many more fear it. Only a few mouths are spouting the fabrications and those under the financial influence of the insurance industry have been very vocal about the issues distorting the views of most Americans.

If you see an out and out fabricationplease do not hesitate to call it to the attention of the readers of this board. There are way too many fabrications and the best authorities are those living with a health care system on a daily basis.

 

[houtx48]

This change in the health care system is going to be good for the USA and Bubba and Bubbina will be using it just the same as rest of us. Some people are just slow on the pickup.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

By all means, you have every right to point out anytime someone tells a lie about how things are conducted in your country. Everyone should know the truth and if people in government are purposely being misleading, regardless if it's on our shores or anyone else's, then it should be brought to light.

HOWEVER....

Don't trash our country to try and justify your disgusting, evil, fascist agenda.

Don't push your luck.

 

[B_nyvin]

As long as you don't have prostrate cancer NHS is fine, lol

 

[houtx48]

As long as you don't have prostrate cancer NHS is fine, lol.................it's the best kid to have you just sneak up on it while it laying there and wack it.

 

[deleted15807]

The same lies were spread about Canada's health care system. You see in the US lies work. They work well. There are no 'facts' anymore just 'fair and balanced' Orwellian infotainment. I was about to call it journalism but it's not journalism that's practiced here, more like stenography. Palin says a lie (e.g. death panels), Bush says a lie (e.g. we know Sadaam has WMD's) and no one facts check it. If you do and call them a liar then you are a 'libtard', a part of the 'liberal media' and therefor a fraud.

 

[Jason]

There is the idea that democracy is the worst possible political system - until you consider the alternatives.

In a similar way it is very easy to find fault with the NHS - but very hard to think of a better system. The key problem we have is that because we do not ration the scarce resource of health care by a price system we end up with waiting lists, and then we try to address the problems for the waiting lists by targets and monitoring. Yes it is messy. And there are real problems in the future as the average health of the population declines sharply, and this is going to produce enormous additional costs. But 100% of the population has access to quality health care.

Quite how you move from the US system to something more like the UK NHS system is hard to imagine. In the UK it happened after the 2WW when there was something of a blank canvas.

 

[TomCat84]

I'm not sure the US would be able to afford a system like the NHS without massive cuts in military expenditure (which I support), and/or a massive increase in taxes (which I do not support). We here in the United States need a uniquely American solution, one that guarantees equal access to quality healthcare but with a free market twist.

 

[TomCat84]

My preference would have been a quasi-government agency/company, ala the US Postal Service, that would be non profit, and operate as a health insurance company in competition with other companies. It would be required to break even, but any profits would have to go toward research, rebates to taxpayers, etc.

 

[tomthelad91]

It's nice to see rationale on here

Essentially it all boils down to what you consider to be a Right, and what a None-essential service, or 'Privilege'. I think it's government job to provide what is a 'Right', such as Safety (Police & Jail), sanitation, etc.

Now, most republicans don't have a problem with a state run education system, aka, Schools, Libraries and Colleges, but they call a state run Medical System 'Socialist' and say it's not essential.

I think that Healthcare is much more of an 'Essential-Sevice' than education. You won't die without an education.

The real Irony is that America actually has more State-Run or 'Socialist' things than here in some cases.

Here in Britain, public transport is all privately run. However, buses and subways are run by Government in the USA. So is Public Transport more of a 'Right' than Healthcare?

I think if you present the argument about Education and Public Transport, it totally wrips apart the argument presented that the state shouldn't provide services, because I doubt anyone would say Education and Transport are more 'Essential'...

Of course the NHS has it's problems. Some Life Prolonging Drugs aren't available for terminally Ill patients. But you can still get these by paying for yourself, the NHS will just subsidise them. It still works out cheaper on the whole.

And if you're wealthy and wish to have better healthcare, you can still get Private Insurance! BUPA is an example of one of the many Private healthcare providers which un along side the NHS.

I just think the very least mankind can do is care for the sick. It's basic civilization. I don't mind paying thousands of pounds in extra taxes to do this, It's called empathy and charity. And I can't see how someone can be so passionate about not helping those in need, it's just a bit 'horrible' in a very toned down expression.

 

[midlifebear]

Having actually had prostate cancer and still needing regular PSA tests (a simple blood draw and automated analysis with an Abbot machine) here's what I pay for the four-times-a-year for those PSA tests, depending where I happen to be.

Barcelona, Spain = nothing (I've already paid for the blood test with my taxes).

Buenos Aires, Argentina = 100 Pesos (3.7 Pesos to the USA dollar, about U$S27)

Reno, Nevada, USA = U$S167

Salt Lake City, Ewetaw, USA = U$S180

Mexico City, Mexico = 200 Pesos (11.3 Pesos -- more or less -- to the USA dollar, it fluctuates a lot, but has never cost more that U$S27.00).

The amusing thing about the USA is they itemize everything, including the cost of of the latex gloves and the act of simply drawing the blood sample, which runs $30 -- that's U$S30 for just sticking a fucking needle into my arm, BADLY!). I'm uncertain how it is spelled correctly, but you'll see it on your lab tests as something like "venupuncture." Look for it the next time you have the opportunity to review your lab tests (if you live in the USA).

 

[Jason]

A PSA test would be free in the UK (to any EU citizen and many others). However the NHS would set the time of the treatment (which might well clash with your work schedule), give a limited choice of place (or even no choice) and you would probably have to be proactive in asking your doctor (or the doctor's secretary) for the result rather than receiving an automatic result. The inconvenience is passed to the patient, and it saves a lot of costs to the NHS. You might decide to go private for the convenience. I've not checked but it is hard to imagine any private medical service in the UK for as little as £120/$180. This is a UK issue - if you go private it is expensive, and you've paid for the NHS anyway and can't get a refund (you can't even set private health costs against tax).

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

A PSA test would be free in the UK (to any EU citizen and many others). However the NHS would set the time of the treatment (which might well clash with your work schedule), give a limited choice of place (or even no choice) and you would probably have to be proactive in asking your doctor (or the doctor's secretary) for the result rather than receiving an automatic result. The inconvenience is passed to the patient, and it saves a lot of costs to the NHS. You might decide to go private for the convenience. I've not checked but it is hard to imagine any private medical service in the UK for as little as £120/$180. This is a UK issue - if you go private it is expensive, and you've paid for the NHS anyway and can't get a refund (you can't even set private health costs against tax).

And why should you? You cant choose what your taxes go to, otherwise id let none of mine go to the military.

 

[midlifebear]

A PSA test would be free in the UK (to any EU citizen and many others). However the NHS would set the time of the treatment (which might well clash with your work schedule), give a limited choice of place (or even no choice) and you would probably have to be proactive in asking your doctor (or the doctor's secretary) for the result rather than receiving an automatic result. The inconvenience is passed to the patient, and it saves a lot of costs to the NHS. You might decide to go private for the convenience. I've not checked but it is hard to imagine any private medical service in the UK for as little as £120/$180. This is a UK issue - if you go private it is expensive, and you've paid for the NHS anyway and can't get a refund (you can't even set private health costs against tax).

Something every Spaniard and Argentine knows is that is the patient's responsibility to gather and maintain his or her medical records. There may be a copy of your lab results somewhere, but don't count on it. You go in and have the lab work done. They tell you when it will be ready. You pick it up. You make the appointment to see your physician and discuss the results. It's very rare for anyone to lose their x-rays, lab work, and summaries on surgery.

Now, if you wander around the USA with a large, reinforced flat plastic envelope containing all of your medical information, they rarely look at it (as in really look at it), and more often than not physicians will simply write one of those "cute" shorthand notes on your chart that only another physician may be privy to such as FLP funny looking patient (the doc has no idea what's wrong and not willing to figure it out), EAPD erratic and possibly dangerous, PPPA problem patient pass along. Not making this up. The things physicians write down in medical charts in the USA often do more harm than good. After all they are the physicians. We're just things to suck money from.

When I was 35 and needed to go in for a complete physical to qualify for the insurance offered by a new job, the physician writing up my chart asked, "So, you're 35 and not married?" I said, "Yes." Without any further discussion about why I might not be married at 35 he simply wrote down "homosexual." If he'd asked, I'd gladly have told him I'm a card-carrying dangerous faggot, but he seemed to think I couldn't read his upside down (from my perspective) hand writing.

It will take decades for the USA to figure out how to equitably mete out health care. It's not in the USA medical establishment's mentality.

 

[D_Count_Dickula]

See the whole health care thing from a future perspective. People will wonder how they managed to go without a reasonable healthcare system for so long. Compulsory health care insurance will add so much more social calm and peace to the American society, which seems to be consumed by a cornucopia of fears and a ridiculous security paranoia from an European point of view.
People will stop concentrating on fears of loosing healthcare, they will focus on improving their lifes and communities much more. The positive effects of this reform cannot be underestimated.
To compare this to "socialism" is just rubbish of people how seem to have never left the US to see how things look in other places. Living in East Germany, I have experienced real socialism. By any means, these guys do not know what they are talking of...

 

[Jason]

And why should you? You cant choose what your taxes go to, otherwise id let none of mine go to the military.

In the UK health and pensions are supposed to be funded from National Insurance. While this looks like a tax on income the official position is that it is not - rather it is a compulsory insurance.

The state pension is paid at the same level to everyone (assuming threshold NI contribution levels have been passed) which means that you get the same whether you are broke or a millionaire. People who are poor can often claim additional benefits, but the basic state pension is a flat rate. Private/company pensions are taken in addition to the state pension. Often people have a modest private/company pension, but added to the state pension it may make up to a reasonable income.

Health gives equal entitlement to the NHS. Where with a pension you can take your state pension and top up with private funds, with the NHS this is not the case - basically you go 100% NHS or 100% private. (I know that people sometimes have a test done quickly privately, then say to the NHS "I need treatment now", but this isn't how the system is supposed to work). Someone who uses medical services that they pay for in effect takes some of the cost from the NHS. It used to be the case that government encouraged this beneficial behaviour with a tax break so that private health insurance could be paid from pre-tax not post-tax income. Alas no more! The changeover was a spectacular own goal in that a lot of people decided they were no longer able to afford private insurance and have become an additional NHS cost - it was ballpark one million people. It seems a no-brainer to bring back this tax perk. Why give people free NHS treatment if they are prepared to pay for medical treatment?

I know the issue is pretty emotive in Britain, and has a clear political divide. I guess it demonstrates the friction when both state and private systems exist alongside one another.

Presumably we will be looking at systems where people are encouraged to pay for medical insurance - the present NHS model cannot cope with the demands that will soon be made on it.