NO Bailout...explained.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ripsrips, Sep 30, 2008.

  1. ripsrips

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  2. Pitbull

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  3. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    Oh snap, I just posted that in another thread. LoL.
    This article is very good, and has echoed some points I made... like people will lend money anyways, it will just be done more carefully, and with a higher percentage rate/risk ratio.
     
  4. Phil Ayesho

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    read it..
    five will get you ten he is a neocon republican whose publications endorse free market principles. You can tell just by WHEN he pins the "start".

    Nobody seems to notice that there was no big rush of defaults until the last 6 years.

    I heard one neocon suggest an INSURANCE scheme- this guy has a bankruptcy scheme...

    I hear NO scheme that does not cost big money. One way or another.


    The author makes a LOT of statements about what will likely happen without ONE IOTA of historical precedent to back him up.

    HE just SAYS things will not be as dire as feared...

    Let's see his economic model that, First, PREDICTED these events... and THEN i will trust his economic model that predicts a less dire result.


    I do think the Bail out as written was too rushed...


    Here's what I think would work... the government passes a law that they WILL borrow up to $700 billion to avert the crisis, but makes NO specific promise how it will be allocated.

    This is just to bolster confidence and flatten out market swings...

    THEN they appoint an independent and qualified guy, Like Warren Buffet, to head a NON partisan ( i.e. NO politicans allowed- and no economist on the payroll to either party) Group to examine the situation and come up with plans on how best to allocate funds...

    Not bailing out firms, necessarily, but acting where needed to keep markets liquid, and coming up with options for addressing other cirses sure to emerge.
    Take a little more time to THINK thru the causes and consequences....


    But, whatever the plan, it had better happen quick... banks are failing in Europe now.
     
  5. Rugbypup

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    Here in NZ, things are getting a little worried, but nothing major has happened here, other than purse strings being pulled in a bit tighter.

    The media here is VERY scathing of the American economy, financial tactics and money markets, generally speaking.
     
  6. Jovial

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  7. VeeP

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  8. B_New End

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    #8 B_New End, Oct 1, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2008
  9. Drifterwood

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    Goldman saw the crap coming at the end of 2006. Those guys are sriously smart and I don't have an issue with them taking advantage of a situation that we allow to happen. This is an interesting read. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/business/28lloyd.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

    I can't see that it shouldn't cost big money Phil. The assets have to be liquidated one way or another. The question is who should take the hit? I personally don't think a bailout will solve the problem, it might stem the tide and reduce problems in quality economic areas. The terms of the bailout should be clear that it is a stop gap until a commission finds who is responsible for what and makes them carry the can. Ultimately, I think the hurt will be shared by all those involved, Banks, Government and the consumers, because there has to be a level of caveat emptor.

    We are responsible for our governments in a democracy, which is why we are dumbfucks, and we will have to shoulder our share of the cost.
     
  10. Qua

    Qua
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    I love Ron Paul. I know if he were president he'd try and wreak havoc, but whatever reputation McCain has as a straight shooting straightforward politician pales in comparison to Ron Paul.
     
  11. faceking

    faceking Active Member

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    What the f*ck are they doing at time like this... squeezing in earmarks??????

    This should of been an emergency-only bill, we don't have time nor the risk for this shit.

    New Tax earmarks in Bailout bill
    - Film and Television Productions (Sec. 502)
    -Wooden Arrows designed for use by children (S ec. 503)
    - 6 page package of earmarks for litigants in the 1989 Exxon Valdez incident, Alaska (Sec. 504)

    Tax earmark "extenders" in the bailout bill.
    - Virgin Island and Puerto Rican Rum (Section 308)
    - American Samoa (Sec. 309)
    - Mine Rescue Teams (Sec. 310)
    - Mine Safety Equipment (Sec. 311)
    - Domestic Production Activities in Puerto Rico (Sec. 312)
    - Indian Tribes (Sec. 314, 315)
    - Railroads (Sec. 316)
    - Auto Racing Tracks (317)
    - District of Columbia (Sec. 322)
    - Wool Research (Sec. 325)
     
  12. Pitbull

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    Screwing us over.
    Congress does that every day. :mad:
     
  13. tripod

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    I wonder how many of these originated with fucking Jack Murtha trading Democratic votes for earmarks?
     
  14. Phil Ayesho

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    The Strength of the Market is meaningless. The stronger it appears, the riskier people behave.


    The whole POINT of such things as "bubbles" is that a frenzy of speculation and "get rich quick" movements within the culture coalesce into a FALSE rise in the market.

    Thus far the proximate cause in all of this seems to be the origin of new loan products whose formulae were so arcane that Loan packagers were hiring Physicists to do the math.

    The rating agencies rated these new loan products at triple A, even though they had no idea what the bizarrely complex formulae really meant.

    These triple A rated assets were then bought up by Fannie and Freddie and further distributed throughout the world- getting snapped up due to the long history of triple A rated instruments being secure.

    So- a good hard look at who is running Moodys, Fitch, S&P is in order-
    And an investigation into the Loan originators...

    I just listened to an episode of This American Life where they covered an AWARDS ceremony...
    folks in the lending industry giving out fucking awards to the braniacs who "invented" these new products.

    I am sick to death of republican blame shifting and bullshit talk about the "irresponsible" borrowers...

    These were FAULTY products 'manufactured' by U.S. corporations and PUSHED to the consumer as "safe".
    Further pushed to the entire financial sector as triple A safe.

    The companies that need to take this on the chin are the folks who INVENTED these products and the folks who gave them the safest rating.
     
  15. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    A ton of these securities were sold to Europeans. I wonder what they think of us right now.
     
  16. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Lawyers. By and large, this is what you can expect. Did you hear about the 40 year old lawyer who died in a car crash? When he got to heaven he recieved a prize for being the first entrant to heaven over 600 years old. When he asked how they arrived at that age, they said they just counted up his billable hours.
     
  17. Phil Ayesho

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    LAWYERS?

    Try LAW MAKERS...

    And this entire package is SOLEY aimed at getting the petulant republican holdouts to get over their POUT at Mommy speaking harshly to them because they made such a mess.
     
  18. B_New End

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    You have, or have had, a major credit problem, haven't you? If not you, then your wife.

    And uh, I don't think you even watched the videos... because the irresponsible...

    forget it.. just post another 50 paragraph post of socialist nonsense that no one will read. I'll ignore you, you can ignore me.
     
  19. Drifterwood

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    There is some fundamental truth in what Phil has been saying though.

    Community. What does it mean to you? Are we part of a global community? a G8 Have's community? a Regional community?, a National Community? an Industry secotr community etc etc? or no fucking community, just look after number one and fuck everyone else?

    I have been very angry, I admit, over the last few days, because people have run around like headless chickens, blaming each other, rather than soberly planning to deal with things.

    When the shit hits the fan, you do three things. Turn the fan off, find out who threw the shit and make sure they and no one else has more to throw at you, then clean up the mess. We have to work together to clean up the mess otherwise the stains and stench will be with us for a long time.

    The clean up is like a company liquidation. Most of the people who caused the shit or were involved with it get thrown out on their arse, a few are kept on for a while to help a sensible outside third party sort things out.
     
  20. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    We have authority over one country (or we should.. Iraq shouldn't be in our authority, but it is) I only consider the USA my community.

    there is only one problem with asking me to help clean up the shit. We have done it too many times, and keep getting told it will not happen again.. and guess what?

    Many of us warned, and howled and screamed, and we were dragged along anyways.

    Frankly, I am sick of it. This is a bloodless revolution. Treat us like we owe the government and all their pals all our hard earned money so they can smoke cigars and drive fancy cars and fuck hot women and live the life they are accustomed to, and the revolution will turn violent within the decade. It won't just be the envy, it will be the disparity, and the hopelessness and the poverty. This system is crooked to the core, and it needs to end.

    And the reason I just disrespected Phil, is because it is obvious he did not watch the movies... he just started blathering, which is disrespectful to me.
     
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