gigantikok: [quote author=Javierdude23 link=board=99;num=1059666572;start=20#22 date=08/08/03 at 05:06:41]
Everyone basically agrees on it. A few scientists don't, but that is logical, there will be disagreement on any topic in the scientific world.[/quote]
What do you mean "basically everyone agrees on it"? Why do you always try to back up your arguments by assuming that everyone agrees with you? Are you even paying attention to evidence I have searched in favor of my argument? This is going to be reduced to a "yes"/"no" argument if you don't start paying attention to what I am saying and stop repeating the same stuff over and over again. Obviously not "everyone" agrees on it because I provided you with a list of 19,000 names that disagree. Of those 19,000, 14,000 are probably very legitimate names in the field of climatology. I have provided you with an in depth interview with a highly respected scientist. Dr. Singer is one of the preeminent climatologists in the US I can give you his resume if you want it. Anyway, the point is that temperatures have been rising after a mini-ice age which ended in the mid-1800's. Since the beginning of the century the most accurate measurements of "global temperatures" seems to indicate that the temperature has risen by .5 degrees. Not a catastrophe! Most importantly, if you are leaving a period of profound cold, your temperature change will obviously show an upward trend. Also, the effects of such an upward trend are benign, i.e. a slightly warmer average temperature in Minnesota is a good thing - longer growing season for more agricultural production, to say nothing of shorter periods of cold and snow. Will warmer weather mammals migrate north under this scenario? To be sure. But where is the catastrophe!
You need to start truly listening to me, Javierdude. I feel as though your passionate love of the environment and desire to protect it is clouding your true judgment of the facts. In response to some of the articles you brought up:
[quote author=Javierdude23 link=board=99;num=1059666572;start=20#22 date=08/08/03 at 05:06:41]
This one is my favorite,
Bush admits Global warming is happening read the article, I knew he knew it was happening, but the details are astounding.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/globalwarming/story/0,7369,727202,00.html
[/quote]
In regards to your favorite... I never said I don't believe there is some sort of global warming. I believe that our output is creating a very, very slight change the temperature. No more than .5%. Bush probably believes, as I do, that there is an extremely slight warming. He probably believes that it is something to look into. This slight warming could perhaps be good for our environment (i.e. warmer seasons, more farming time, less snow). But I highly doubt he believes "the future is bleak" and that the human civilization is going to parish and die if we don't start living in grass huts and killing zebra. You also have to remember that Bush is beginning to compromise a lot of his true ideas in an attempt to appeal to the opposing party so he can get reelected. You really don't know what is going on with Bush, nor does that article really tell us anything.
[quote author=Javierdude23 link=board=99;num=1059666572;start=20#22 date=08/08/03 at 05:06:41]
NASA affirms a lower temperature rise, if we take precautions. (in response to Senate questions)
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/forcings/senate/qna.html
[/quote]
My response to the NASA article is this:
Satellite Data Verified
In a new study to be published in an upcoming issue of the Journal of Geophysical Research, Roger Pielke, along with four other scientists, uses barometer data from weather balloons to construct a temperature record. Temperatures can be determined by measuring barometric pressure (weight of the air above) as weather balloons ascend through the atmosphere. At the ground average barometric pressure is 29.92 inches and halfway through the atmosphere is 14.96 inches. When the air is colder the balloon doesn't have to go as high to reach the midpoint. For every 195 feet farther that the balloon has to rise to reach the atmospheric halfway point, the mean temperature will go up 4.95 degrees Fahrenheit.
Using global barometer data taken from weather balloons Pielke, et al, compiled a temperature record and found no global warming trend since 1979, in agreement with the satellite data. The barometer data goes back to 1973, however. The 1973-1996 data show a warming though it is six times lower than predicted by the NASA climate model. An article summarizing the research can be found at
www.nhes.com/currnet_issue/feature.html.
I will admit I didn't bother to look into your articles very much. I did some light skimming. They pretty much preach the same nonsense that I have heard with no real evidence. I've already responded to the NASA article, and a lot of the stuff you've thrown out. How much more nonsense are you going to throw at me?
Here's a few more lil tidbits:
IPCC Findings Disputed
The actual impact of carbon dioxide on the atmosphere is 15 percent less than estimated by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, according to a study in Geophysical Research Letters (July 15, 1998 ). The UN panel also underestimated the effects of other greenhouse gases such as methane and nitrous oxide.
Gunnar Myhre of the University of Oslo, Norway, who participated in the study said that "Our results will only change the IPCC estimate of radiative forcing, not the IPCC estimate of temperature change" (AP Online, July 10, 1998 ).
David Letterman, of CBS' Late Show, devoted a July 15 monologue to Vice President Al Gore's recent musings over the causes of the warm weather. "You know," said Letterman, "Vice President Al Gore held a press conference yesterday, and I thought this was interesting, Al Gore said the reason – he's blaming now, global warming – he says, 'global warming is the reason we're presently having a heat wave,' he says. The heat wave right now; global warming. And I'm thinking, 'Yeeeaaah it could be global warming or," Letterman shouts, "maybe it has something to do with the fact that it's the middle of July, it's supposed to be hot." The crowd erupted with cheers and laughter.
The Green lobby has stepped up the political war raging around global warming. The National Resources Defense Council is running ads in Florida accusing Republican U.S. Representatives Bill Young and Dan Miller of "fiddling while Florida burns" by voting to prevent the Clinton Administration from illegally implementing the Kyoto Protocol (The Tampa Tribune, July 15, 1998 ).
The Executive Council of the Canadian Society for Ecological Economics has given a name to the brand of science that seems to prevail in the environmental debate.
In their Policy Options (May 1998 ) they write: "Post-normal science recognizes that scientific facts pertaining to the environment (including climate change) are often uncertain. These need to be supplemented by anecdotal evidence such as traditional and popular knowledge provided by an extended peer community of knowledgeable 'non-experts.' Moreover, the selection of policies is complicated by major conflicts among society's values ... Finally, post-normal science requires an ethic of responsibility from scientists i.e., scientists cannot afford to simply wait for the facts to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to recommend policy action. Rather, the weight of evidence (with a margin of error much larger than the one tolerated for scientific knowledge) should be sufficient ground to recommend policy action. If error there is, the precautionary principle requires scientists to err on the safe side, as would do an engineer building a bridge: safety first because the stakes are high."
So what is my conclusion? Global warming could very well be happening. There is a tiny warming of the planet that we are causing, but never will it be a significant factor in the destruction of the human race as many pro-warming scientists claim. I do agree that we need to keep a watchful eye, and be ready, but I don't agree that our current lifestyle will fry us and turn us into toasted marshmallows. It is simply unfair for certain scientists (trying to make money and sell books) to try to freak people into a primitive lifestyle by making outrageous claims about the earth's eminent doom as a result of gasses. Javierdude, we are not going to save the earth by scaring people into riding bikes and so on.
[quote author=Javierdude23 link=board=99;num=1059666572;start=20#22 date=08/08/03 at 05:06:41]
And ain't that the truth.
[/quote]
Yup. It sure is.
P.S- Are you even sure the Earth needs that much saving?
