No Divorce For Eight-Year-Old

dong20

Sexy Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Posts
6,058
Media
0
Likes
28
Points
183
Location
The grey country
Sexuality
No Response
Regardless of the lack of consummation, and allowing for differing cultural perspective (Mutah marriage and Wahabi) - with parents like this ...

"An eight-year-old girl who was married off to a 58-year-old must stay with the man until she reaches puberty, a Saudi court has ruled.

The youngster was married off by her father in exchange for a £4,000 dowry. Relatives of the girl said the groom had agreed not to consummate the marriage for 10 years and to allow the youngster to live with her mother.

The girl's mother, who is separated from her husband, had filed a petition for divorce with a court in Unayzah, 135 miles north of Riyadh. But the court ruled that the girl must file the case herself when she reaches puberty, it was reported.

"The judge has dismissed the plea because she does not have the right to file such a case, and ordered that the plea should be filed by the girl herself when she reaches puberty," lawyer Abdullah Jtili told the AFP news agency.

The marriage contract was signed by the father and the groom.

It is understood the father had debt problems and wanted to secure an advance dowry."


From a western perspective this pretty much equates to mortgaging one's daughter. I wonder, if she does divorce at some stage, will the father have to pay back the £4k - perhaps only if the marriage isn't consummated?

This doesn't seem to fit the profile of a 'typical' Mutah marriage (an interesting and convenient concept - depending on one's perspective of course) although it has some superficial commonalities. But then it's not something I know much about, and I don't recall it being mentioned in the Qur'an.

Still, similar things have happened much closer to home, so perhaps us in glass houses ...
 

pym

Just Browsing
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Posts
1,365
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
181
Regardless of the lack of consummation, and allowing for differing cultural perspective (Mutah marriage and Wahabi) - with parents like this ...

"An eight-year-old girl who was married off to a 58-year-old must stay with the man until she reaches puberty, a Saudi court has ruled.

The youngster was married off by her father in exchange for a £4,000 dowry. Relatives of the girl said the groom had agreed not to consummate the marriage for 10 years and to allow the youngster to live with her mother.

The girl's mother, who is separated from her husband, had filed a petition for divorce with a court in Unayzah, 135 miles north of Riyadh. But the court ruled that the girl must file the case herself when she reaches puberty, it was reported.

"The judge has dismissed the plea because she does not have the right to file such a case, and ordered that the plea should be filed by the girl herself when she reaches puberty," lawyer Abdullah Jtili told the AFP news agency.

The marriage contract was signed by the father and the groom.

It is understood the father had debt problems and wanted to secure an advance dowry."

From a western perspective this pretty much equates to mortgaging one's daughter. I wonder, if she does divorce at some stage, will the father have to pay back the £4k - perhaps only if the marriage isn't consummated?

This doesn't seem to fit the profile of a 'typical' Mutah marriage (an interesting and convenient concept - depending on one's perspective of course) although it has some superficial commonalities. But then it's not something I know much about, and I don't recall it being mentioned in the Qur'an.

Still, similar things have happened much closer to home, so perhaps us in glass houses ...
????? IN most civilized nations of the world, even at the the age of puberty, it would certainly be pederasty to "CONSUMATE THAT MARRIAGE". Culture be damned....that is WRONG, and it happens ALL THE time in that culture. Leave children alone!! HANDS off!! Think of it at puberty that girl will have to deal with the digusting heavings of a 60+year old man. This is also rampant in Afghani culture too.
 

dong20

Sexy Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Posts
6,058
Media
0
Likes
28
Points
183
Location
The grey country
Sexuality
No Response
????? IN most civilized nations of the world, even at the the age of puberty, it would certainly be pederasty to "CONSUMATE THAT MARRIAGE". Culture be damned....that is WRONG, and it happens ALL THE time in that culture. Leave children alone!! HANDS off!! Think of it at puberty that girl will have to deal with the digusting heavings of a 60+year old man. This is also rampant in Afghani culture too.

Yes, but perhaps if you re-read my post, and the news article extract, you may find some misunderstandings that seem evident from your response.
 

joybunny

Experimental Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Posts
599
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
161
Location
Texas
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Female
The age of the two is already horrible but the fact that father sold his daughter into basically being a future sex slave is unimaginable.
 

Moez???

Loved Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Posts
816
Media
11
Likes
602
Points
313
Location
SE Michigan
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
????? IN most civilized nations of the world, even at the the age of puberty, it would certainly be pederasty to "CONSUMATE THAT MARRIAGE". Culture be damned....that is WRONG, and it happens ALL THE time in that culture. Leave children alone!! HANDS off!! Think of it at puberty that girl will have to deal with the digusting heavings of a 60+year old man. This is also rampant in Afghani culture too.

Firstly, who are you to judge other cultures? Most cultures for a majority of human history got married to girls at their first period. Yes, even in the west, until something like...150 years ago. I think it's wrong for a girl to get married at such a young age too, but that's because I was born and raised in a modern, western culture.

But back to the topic on hand, Saudi Arabia is usually a good thing to look at. Whatever they do, you can just assume is evil. I am a Muslim, and have been against every war that I've been alive during, and yet if the US invaded Saudi Arabia, I would be happy.

The current day dowry is a perversion of something that was suppose to be security for if the girl wanted to leave her husband, and would not have any financial support. It has become a way to sell one's daugther, sadly.

As with the Mutah, it's suppose to a non-formal way for a man to be in a relationship with a women. This isn't meant to be a way for people to have one night stands. This is meant for those who can't get married, for whatever reasons. If you look at the wordings for Mutah's, it's basically the women giving permission to the guy to be intimate with her.
 

Northland

Sexy Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Posts
5,924
Media
0
Likes
39
Points
123
Sexuality
No Response
Firstly, who are you to judge other cultures? Most cultures for a majority of human history got married to girls at their first period. Yes, even in the west, until something like...150 years ago. I think it's wrong for a girl to get married at such a young age too, but that's because I was born and raised in a modern, western culture.
You were doing fine here and should have shut your pie hole when you had a chance.

Moez???;1888557; said:
But back to the topic on hand, Saudi Arabia is usually a good thing to look at. Whatever they do, you can just assume is evil. I am a Muslim, and have been against every war that I've been alive during, and yet if the US invaded Saudi Arabia, I would be happy.

.
You don't say? I guess your opening statements were designed merely so you could prance around like a person with a brain-you failed. You also failed on any level of humanity when you decided an all out attack on Saudi Arabia would make you happy-or do you derive pleasure from knowing innocent people are being killed in the name of American freedom?
 

pym

Just Browsing
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Posts
1,365
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
181
This is just to much. I see you are posting from detroit, and under the all encompasing "i am a Muslim".. OK which sort? Wahabist, Sunni, SHiiTE, Kharijites, Ghulat Sects?, SUFI,Black Muslim.......Did you come to U.S.A. with the expectatation of taking such Culturalism's with you? How convienent for you to recite nebulous script regarding the righteousness of taking Helpless children as wives. Especially like the one regarding doweries and a womans right to leave her husband if she should so choose.....That easy eh? Why is that under the guise of 'Insulting behavoir' i keep having to read about Muslim wives being MURDERED here in the U.S.A. by there Muslim Husbands under that guise. Sounds like NO WAY OUT to me. Is that one of your cultural privledges that you smugly hope to be able to excersise? OUR CIVIL laws here in the states superceed your cultural privledges and SHARIA. Break the law and find out. You will not find a home here in AMERICA advocating child marriage to 60 year old men....i promise you that.
 
Last edited:

joybunny

Experimental Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Posts
599
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
161
Location
Texas
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Female
Firstly, who are you to judge other cultures? Most cultures for a majority of human history got married to girls at their first period.

This is not a cultural issue but one of human rights. Those practices were made at at time when people lifespans were considerable shorter than they are now. It made better sense for a women to get married and have children younger because there was a strong possibility that she may not live very long. First, many women died in childbirth. Next, more people were likely to die due to disease, famine, and war. Finally, a women's place was to have children, please her husband, and maintain the household.

But back to the topic on hand, Saudi Arabia is usually a good thing to look at. Whatever they do, you can just assume is evil. I am a Muslim, and have been against every war that I've been alive during, and yet if the US invaded Saudi Arabia, I would be happy.

Saudi Arabia is not evil. However, any person has the potential to do evil and that's anywhere in the world. Systems, and that includes religious, can be set up with the best of intentions. Unfortunately, people will sometimes use that system for evil purposes. For example, Catholic victims and even the Branch Davidian incident in Texas. In this case, those two men took advantage of religious doctrine and used it for an evil purpose. In this case they treated a human being like a piece of property. From what I read the judgment reflected that but they were bound by their own laws. The best they could offer was that the 58 year old man has to wait until that girl is, by religious code, a woman. In short, both men got away with it by a technicality.

The current day dowry is a perversion of something that was suppose to be security for if the girl wanted to leave her husband, and would not have any financial support. It has become a way to sell one's daugther, sadly.

I agree, but if man's mindset is that he bought that girl, she is not going to be allowed to leave.

As with the Mutah, it's suppose to a non-formal way for a man to be in a relationship with a women. This isn't meant to be a way for people to have one night stands. This is meant for those who can't get married, for whatever reasons. If you look at the wordings for Mutah's, it's basically the women giving permission to the guy to be intimate with her.

Once again the agreement was with the men only. The girl didn't make the debt, the deal, or the payment. It's going to be really interesting to see what happens when she has her first period. I seriously doubt any divorce will take place. Nevertheless, there is hope.
 

Moez???

Loved Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Posts
816
Media
11
Likes
602
Points
313
Location
SE Michigan
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
Northland, you are missing my point completely. I guess I shouldn't be happy of the US invading any country, but if they were so gung-ho about giving freedom to the middle east, Saudi Arabia was where they should've started.

But with the girls marrying young, you seem to think I agree with it. I don't. But the fact remains that this isn't our culture. You can say it's horrible, but to people who live there, having sex with more than 1 person your whole life is horrible. another factor is back in the day, humans hit puberty much later than they do today. this whole issue, though, was more of a side statement, instead of a main part of the arguement.

and to Pym, your arguements are way, wayyyyy out there. I was born and raised in the US, and don't agree with any of those things you ranted off. I said from the start I don't agree with girls marrying that young. So then you say I'm trying to bring those negative aspects to the US? You know, Christians kill their wives too, they just don't make all of Christianity look bad by saying it's okay in their religion.

But you have every right to pick up and read the sections of the Quran dealing with these topics. Don't read them out of context, and you will see they are condemned.

But for you to imply I want to murder my wife? get your head out of your ass.

also, I consider myself Muslim. I don't consider myself any of those sects you posted because, in Islam, forming sects and barriers between other humans is a Sin. and their splits are political and pointless for the most part.
 

pym

Just Browsing
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Posts
1,365
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
181
Northland, you are missing my point completely. I guess I shouldn't be happy of the US invading any country, but if they were so gung-ho about giving freedom to the middle east, Saudi Arabia was where they should've started.

EDIT: one last point of contention, you have used the the word 'THEY' 2 times here. You are a US citizen and refer to your native born country as 'THEY'?? HUh.....

You blew any credibility you could have fostered here by advocating that the United States should be attacking Saudi -Arabia. Why? Because you have a personally held belief regarding that preposterous notion? OK then.....suppose in your fantasy world the US decided to indulge your fantasy. Are you going to join the military and fight alongside the US soldiers? How did your Military service go for you here in the states? Not for you eh? Not that SHIT man.....

But with the girls marrying young, you seem to think I agree with it. I don't. But the fact remains that this isn't our culture. You can say it's horrible, but to people who live there, having sex with more than 1 person your whole life is horrible. another factor is back in the day, humans hit puberty much later than they do today. this whole issue, though, was more of a side statement, instead of a main part of the arguement.

Humans hit puberty 'much' later "back in the day"??? Really......what age was that???!!! Let me qoute your original post : "Firstly, who are you to judge other cultures? Most cultures for a majority of human history got married to girls at their first period. Yes, even in the west, until something like...150 years ago." I do not mind to stand judgemental AT ALL regarding things that are just wrong in the world. I do not accept long standing faults in the human condition as not worth addressing. Slavery used to be acceptable. As you say....A child's first PERIOD made her fair game for the right amount of dowery. Some girls{NOT WOMEN} start there menses at 9 years old!!

and to Pym, your arguements are way, wayyyyy out there. I was born and raised in the US, and don't agree with any of those things you ranted off. I said from the start I don't agree with girls marrying that young. So then you say I'm trying to bring those negative aspects to the US? You know, Christians kill their wives too, they just don't make all of Christianity look bad by saying it's okay in their religion.

Yeah sure ''Some Christians kill there wives", but here in the US they answer to civil laws. I've yet to encounter a CHRISTIAN DEFENSE clause that allows murdering your spouse because the 'Bitch got lippy'. There is no defense here under the guise of SHARIA that protects a murderer. Nor does an ethnic community have the right, here in the states to CLOISTER around a crime of that magnitude and judge it themselves, and keep it with-in 'THERE' community and neglect to inform the LAW. And yet here in the US and Britain, cases like these keep turning up. Leave that shit in the stone age, And speaking of stoning....well we won't even bother with that aspect, still employed as ISLAMIC justice. Yeah who am i to question other cultures.:rolleyes:

But you have every right to pick up and read the sections of the Quran dealing with these topics. Don't read them out of context, and you will see they are condemned.

I have NO wish to single out the Quran or any other religous text's. I have equal respect AND Dis-respect for all of them. There is something GOOD to be learned from all faiths and just as MUCH to question and condemn about them too.

But for you to imply I want to murder my wife? get your head out of your ass.

I don't think i directly implied that about you. I have spoken out here in this thread more on an emotional level.......it allways sets me off to think of children coming to any sort of misery or harm. A 60 year old man taking a womans most precious gift while she is yet a child?? For a hand full of silver?? FUCK THAT.

also, I consider myself Muslim. I don't consider myself any of those sects you posted because, in Islam, forming sects and barriers between other humans is a Sin. and their splits are political and pointless for the most part.

Well you will have to excuse my confusion.....All those sects and others are well represented here in the US. If the US were to leave IRAQ right now, the SHIITES and THE SUNNI's would be in a civil war. I'd hate to even think how a 'MINORITY' like the KURDS would fare. The entire Islamic world is about factions. The slightest insult resulting in JIHAD and death pronouncements. I live in this world too. I have a clue whats going on.
 
Last edited:

Moez???

Loved Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Posts
816
Media
11
Likes
602
Points
313
Location
SE Michigan
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
Yeah, I get relatively defensive about Islam. I tend to worry that just because I am an Arab-American Muslim, that in a few years I'm gonna lose my rights and stuff, because people always claim that I want to instal Sharia law in the US.

I'm completely against Sharia, because the only time Sharia worked was when a divine prophet was explaining what to do.

I know it's just the internet, and I shouldn't really argue with people here, since nothing ever gets done correctly. but still lol.