No Divorce For Eight-Year-Old

Discussion in 'Politics' started by dong20, Dec 21, 2008.

  1. dong20

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    Regardless of the lack of consummation, and allowing for differing cultural perspective (Mutah marriage and Wahabi) - with parents like this ...

    "An eight-year-old girl who was married off to a 58-year-old must stay with the man until she reaches puberty, a Saudi court has ruled.

    The youngster was married off by her father in exchange for a £4,000 dowry. Relatives of the girl said the groom had agreed not to consummate the marriage for 10 years and to allow the youngster to live with her mother.

    The girl's mother, who is separated from her husband, had filed a petition for divorce with a court in Unayzah, 135 miles north of Riyadh. But the court ruled that the girl must file the case herself when she reaches puberty, it was reported.

    "The judge has dismissed the plea because she does not have the right to file such a case, and ordered that the plea should be filed by the girl herself when she reaches puberty," lawyer Abdullah Jtili told the AFP news agency.

    The marriage contract was signed by the father and the groom.

    It is understood the father had debt problems and wanted to secure an advance dowry."


    From a western perspective this pretty much equates to mortgaging one's daughter. I wonder, if she does divorce at some stage, will the father have to pay back the £4k - perhaps only if the marriage isn't consummated?

    This doesn't seem to fit the profile of a 'typical' Mutah marriage (an interesting and convenient concept - depending on one's perspective of course) although it has some superficial commonalities. But then it's not something I know much about, and I don't recall it being mentioned in the Qur'an.

    Still, similar things have happened much closer to home, so perhaps us in glass houses ...
     
  2. pym

    pym New Member

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    ????? IN most civilized nations of the world, even at the the age of puberty, it would certainly be pederasty to "CONSUMATE THAT MARRIAGE". Culture be damned....that is WRONG, and it happens ALL THE time in that culture. Leave children alone!! HANDS off!! Think of it at puberty that girl will have to deal with the digusting heavings of a 60+year old man. This is also rampant in Afghani culture too.
     
  3. dong20

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    Yes, but perhaps if you re-read my post, and the news article extract, you may find some misunderstandings that seem evident from your response.
     
  4. joybunny

    joybunny New Member

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    The age of the two is already horrible but the fact that father sold his daughter into basically being a future sex slave is unimaginable.
     
  5. Moez???

    Moez??? Active Member

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    Firstly, who are you to judge other cultures? Most cultures for a majority of human history got married to girls at their first period. Yes, even in the west, until something like...150 years ago. I think it's wrong for a girl to get married at such a young age too, but that's because I was born and raised in a modern, western culture.

    But back to the topic on hand, Saudi Arabia is usually a good thing to look at. Whatever they do, you can just assume is evil. I am a Muslim, and have been against every war that I've been alive during, and yet if the US invaded Saudi Arabia, I would be happy.

    The current day dowry is a perversion of something that was suppose to be security for if the girl wanted to leave her husband, and would not have any financial support. It has become a way to sell one's daugther, sadly.

    As with the Mutah, it's suppose to a non-formal way for a man to be in a relationship with a women. This isn't meant to be a way for people to have one night stands. This is meant for those who can't get married, for whatever reasons. If you look at the wordings for Mutah's, it's basically the women giving permission to the guy to be intimate with her.
     
  6. Northland

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    You were doing fine here and should have shut your pie hole when you had a chance.

    You don't say? I guess your opening statements were designed merely so you could prance around like a person with a brain-you failed. You also failed on any level of humanity when you decided an all out attack on Saudi Arabia would make you happy-or do you derive pleasure from knowing innocent people are being killed in the name of American freedom?
     
  7. pym

    pym New Member

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    This is just to much. I see you are posting from detroit, and under the all encompasing "i am a Muslim".. OK which sort? Wahabist, Sunni, SHiiTE, Kharijites, Ghulat Sects?, SUFI,Black Muslim.......Did you come to U.S.A. with the expectatation of taking such Culturalism's with you? How convienent for you to recite nebulous script regarding the righteousness of taking Helpless children as wives. Especially like the one regarding doweries and a womans right to leave her husband if she should so choose.....That easy eh? Why is that under the guise of 'Insulting behavoir' i keep having to read about Muslim wives being MURDERED here in the U.S.A. by there Muslim Husbands under that guise. Sounds like NO WAY OUT to me. Is that one of your cultural privledges that you smugly hope to be able to excersise? OUR CIVIL laws here in the states superceed your cultural privledges and SHARIA. Break the law and find out. You will not find a home here in AMERICA advocating child marriage to 60 year old men....i promise you that.
     
    #7 pym, Dec 21, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2008
  8. joybunny

    joybunny New Member

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    Firstly, who are you to judge other cultures? Most cultures for a majority of human history got married to girls at their first period.

    This is not a cultural issue but one of human rights. Those practices were made at at time when people lifespans were considerable shorter than they are now. It made better sense for a women to get married and have children younger because there was a strong possibility that she may not live very long. First, many women died in childbirth. Next, more people were likely to die due to disease, famine, and war. Finally, a women's place was to have children, please her husband, and maintain the household.

    But back to the topic on hand, Saudi Arabia is usually a good thing to look at. Whatever they do, you can just assume is evil. I am a Muslim, and have been against every war that I've been alive during, and yet if the US invaded Saudi Arabia, I would be happy.

    Saudi Arabia is not evil. However, any person has the potential to do evil and that's anywhere in the world. Systems, and that includes religious, can be set up with the best of intentions. Unfortunately, people will sometimes use that system for evil purposes. For example, Catholic victims and even the Branch Davidian incident in Texas. In this case, those two men took advantage of religious doctrine and used it for an evil purpose. In this case they treated a human being like a piece of property. From what I read the judgment reflected that but they were bound by their own laws. The best they could offer was that the 58 year old man has to wait until that girl is, by religious code, a woman. In short, both men got away with it by a technicality.

    The current day dowry is a perversion of something that was suppose to be security for if the girl wanted to leave her husband, and would not have any financial support. It has become a way to sell one's daugther, sadly.

    I agree, but if man's mindset is that he bought that girl, she is not going to be allowed to leave.

    As with the Mutah, it's suppose to a non-formal way for a man to be in a relationship with a women. This isn't meant to be a way for people to have one night stands. This is meant for those who can't get married, for whatever reasons. If you look at the wordings for Mutah's, it's basically the women giving permission to the guy to be intimate with her.

    Once again the agreement was with the men only. The girl didn't make the debt, the deal, or the payment. It's going to be really interesting to see what happens when she has her first period. I seriously doubt any divorce will take place. Nevertheless, there is hope.
     
  9. Moez???

    Moez??? Active Member

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    Northland, you are missing my point completely. I guess I shouldn't be happy of the US invading any country, but if they were so gung-ho about giving freedom to the middle east, Saudi Arabia was where they should've started.

    But with the girls marrying young, you seem to think I agree with it. I don't. But the fact remains that this isn't our culture. You can say it's horrible, but to people who live there, having sex with more than 1 person your whole life is horrible. another factor is back in the day, humans hit puberty much later than they do today. this whole issue, though, was more of a side statement, instead of a main part of the arguement.

    and to Pym, your arguements are way, wayyyyy out there. I was born and raised in the US, and don't agree with any of those things you ranted off. I said from the start I don't agree with girls marrying that young. So then you say I'm trying to bring those negative aspects to the US? You know, Christians kill their wives too, they just don't make all of Christianity look bad by saying it's okay in their religion.

    But you have every right to pick up and read the sections of the Quran dealing with these topics. Don't read them out of context, and you will see they are condemned.

    But for you to imply I want to murder my wife? get your head out of your ass.

    also, I consider myself Muslim. I don't consider myself any of those sects you posted because, in Islam, forming sects and barriers between other humans is a Sin. and their splits are political and pointless for the most part.
     
  10. pym

    pym New Member

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    Well you will have to excuse my confusion.....All those sects and others are well represented here in the US. If the US were to leave IRAQ right now, the SHIITES and THE SUNNI's would be in a civil war. I'd hate to even think how a 'MINORITY' like the KURDS would fare. The entire Islamic world is about factions. The slightest insult resulting in JIHAD and death pronouncements. I live in this world too. I have a clue whats going on.
     
    #10 pym, Dec 21, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2008
  11. Moez???

    Moez??? Active Member

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    Yeah, I get relatively defensive about Islam. I tend to worry that just because I am an Arab-American Muslim, that in a few years I'm gonna lose my rights and stuff, because people always claim that I want to instal Sharia law in the US.

    I'm completely against Sharia, because the only time Sharia worked was when a divine prophet was explaining what to do.

    I know it's just the internet, and I shouldn't really argue with people here, since nothing ever gets done correctly. but still lol.
     
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