No Evidence For Need Of Voter ID Laws

b.c.

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This report documents a recent finding on voter fraud and the alleged need for photo ID laws. These laws are supported by conservative and Republican supporters because they disenfranchise mainly citizens likely to vote against their candidates.

The false presumption is (according to the bigots) that widespread liberal fraud runs rampant in elections. Only liberal fraud, mind you. Interesting revelations include the following:

"In-person voter-impersonation fraud is rare."

"There is more fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than any other categories." (Hmmm. And who is more likely to cast absentee votes??)

"...absentee balloting, which provides far more opportunity for fraud and intimidation than on-site voter fraud."

And here's the kicker, (or why Republicans use the law to deny citizens their right to vote):

"According to Pennsylvania’s Department of State and the Department of Transportation, as many as 758,000 people, about 9 percent of the state’s 8.2 million registered voters currently don’t have the identification that now will be required at the polling place.


Even if 90 percent of those voters got the correct identification by Nov. 6, that still could leave 75,800 voters disenfranchised."


New database of US voter fraud finds no evidence that photo ID laws are needed - Open Channel


Yep. Allow me to introduce you to Mr. Jim... Jim Crow.


:cool:
 
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houtx48

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The more poor people the Repb can keep from voting the better it is for them. The only voter fraud was the Florida Bush election and they pulled that off.
 

kayman

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Gotta love the lies being told to validate discriminatory practices of this nation. Another reason why I said about a lot of (white) people in the US needs to grow the fuck up and get over themselves because not everyone wants to continue this Victorian-style ideological bullshit that impedes social progression.
 

thick12

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The Republicans simply don't want to submit to the democratic process of free and fair elections. If the people were well represented by the policies Republicans support, their Party leaders would want to make it easier for Americans to exercise their RIGHT to vote in a democracy. Instead, these Republicans are determined to prevent select groups of people from voting, particularly minorities, the elderly poor, and students. They do want to make it comparatively easier for the rich and gun owners and people who live in majority Republican Congressional Districts to vote, though. Thus, the game is given away.

If our democratic republic survives this attack, this era of Republican Party leadership will not be treated well in the history books.
 
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Mensch1351

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The Republicans simply don't want to submit to the democratic process of free and fair elections. If the people were well represented by the policies Republicans support, their Party leaders would want to make it easier for Americans to exercise their RIGHT to vote in a democracy. Instead, these Republicans are determined to prevent select groups of people from voting, particularly minorities, the elderly poor, and students. They do want to make it comparatively easier for the rich and gun owners and people who live in majority Republican Congressional Districts to vote, though. Thus, the game is given away.

If our democratic republic survives this attack, this era of Republican Party leadership will not be treated well in the history books.

Oh our Democratic Republic will survive this ---- the real question is how long it will take before America wakes up that everything we KNOW needs changing (like the power of money in politics -- and an archaic political system that isn't really a "direct" election) CAN be changed if we want it. 25 years from now (could be sooner if we want) every American will be required to participate in our democracy because it is their God given Constitutional "right" (just a turn of phrase :biggrin1: )--- it will be a national holiday. The polls will open at 10 Eastern, 9 Central, 8 Mountain and 7 Pacific and will all CLOSE exactly 10 hours later so the West Coast people are never again "announced to" as for the outcome! A certifiable paper trail will be required! And finally we will all wave our purple fingers proudly that we are Americans!:eek::cool::cool:

I almost forgot --- don't you think it a great irony that Citizen's United has allowed FOREIGN companies to fiddle with American elections, at the very same time the Republicans are worried that "illegal aliens" might be secretly infiltrating our election process???
 
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Calboner

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I almost forgot --- don't you think it a great irony that Citizen's United has allowed FOREIGN companies to fiddle with American elections, at the very same time the Republicans are worried that "illegal aliens" might be secretly infiltrating our election process???
And don't forget the imminent danger of a takeover of our legal system by Shariah law. :rolleyes:
 

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This report documents a recent finding on voter fraud and the alleged need for photo ID laws. These laws are supported by conservative and Republican supporters because they disenfranchise mainly citizens likely to vote against their candidates.


A federal court agrees with you.

Appellate Panel Says Texas ID Law Violated Voting Rights Act - The New York Times

A federal appeals panel ruled Wednesday that a strict voter identification law in Texas discriminated against blacks and Hispanics and violated the Voting Rights Act of 1965 — a decision that election experts called an important step toward defining the reach of the landmark law.

The case is one of a few across the country that are being closely watched in legal circles after a 2013 Supreme Court decision that blocked the voting act’s most potent enforcement tool, federal oversight of election laws in numerous states, including Texas, with histories of racial discrimination.

While the federal act still bans laws that suppress minority voting, exactly what kinds of measures cross the legal line has been uncertain since that Supreme Court ruling.

The Texas ID law is one of the strictest of its kind in the country. The law requires voters to bring a government-issued photo ID to the polls. Accepted forms of identification include a driver’s license, a United States passport, a concealed-handgun license and a so-called election identification certificate, a card issued by the State Department of Public Safety.​

As Republicans in Texas keep trying to disenfranchise black voters, while claiming that the GOP is leading the civil rights movement, rule of law is the only thing holding them back. This GOP-backed law was passed in 2011, and this has been a long, drawn-out battle for equality.


 
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temptotalk

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A federal court agrees with you.

Appellate Panel Says Texas ID Law Violated Voting Rights Act - The New York Times

A federal appeals panel ruled Wednesday that a strict voter identification law in Texas discriminated against blacks and Hispanics and violated the Voting Rights Act of 1965 — a decision that election experts called an important step toward defining the reach of the landmark law.

The case is one of a few across the country that are being closely watched in legal circles after a 2013 Supreme Court decision that blocked the voting act’s most potent enforcement tool, federal oversight of election laws in numerous states, including Texas, with histories of racial discrimination.

While the federal act still bans laws that suppress minority voting, exactly what kinds of measures cross the legal line has been uncertain since that Supreme Court ruling.

The Texas ID law is one of the strictest of its kind in the country. The law requires voters to bring a government-issued photo ID to the polls. Accepted forms of identification include a driver’s license, a United States passport, a concealed-handgun license and a so-called election identification certificate, a card issued by the State Department of Public Safety.​

As Republicans in Texas keep trying to disenfranchise black voters, while claiming that the GOP is leading the civil rights movement, rule of law is the only thing holding them back. This GOP-backed law was passed in 2011, and this has been a long, drawn-out battle for equality.



Also spot on.
 

Timer12

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You guys live in a hole. I was in Poland and they have voter IDs. There is no valid reason why Poland and India can have voting laws that require identification and the U.S. Does not!

Honestly you have to have an ID to cash a check, drive, get food stamps, etc, we should have photo IDs to vote.
 
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Fuzzy_

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You guys live in a hole. I was in Poland and they have voter IDs. There is no valid reason why Poland and India can have voting laws that require identification and the U.S. Does not!

Honestly you have to have an ID to cash a check, drive, get food stamps, etc, we should have photo IDs to vote.

You need to read the article. Voters may be asked for such things as cable bills, phone bills and leases as proof of residency. But the Republicans in Texas only permitted the kind of ID that the poor tend to not have, like passports and drivers licenses. Since minorities lack opportunity, and tend to be poor, they are less likely to own such ID. This is classic racial disenfranchisement.

This is a very sneaky move by the GOP in Texas.
 
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KennF

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You guys live in a hole. I was in Poland and they have voter IDs. There is no valid reason why Poland and India can have voting laws that require identification and the U.S. Does not!

Honestly you have to have an ID to cash a check, drive, get food stamps, etc, we should have photo IDs to vote.

When I look at the law, I weigh "the reasons" vs. "the effect". The government has the right to make laws that several a governmental reason. Identifying the voter is a reasonable expectation. In that way, @Timer12, you are correct. Mind you, their are extremely few cases of voter fraud on record. In a 2014 article by a Loyola Law Professor examining Mississippi's law, "In the 243-page document that Mississippi State Sen. Chris McDaniel filed on Monday with evidence of allegedly illegal votes in the Mississippi Republican primary, there were no allegations of the kind of fraud that ID can stop." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...le-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/)

However, the effect of the law puts an barrier to some people. When you look at who is effected:
1) obviously those who would never be able to identify because they are using false ID's;
2) people who are afraid of registering with the authorities for fear that they will be targeted for violence, brutality, or have family members that they are trying to protect;
3) those people who cannot afford to take time off of work in order fill out the forms, for example someone who is the sole provider for their family (remember these ID offices are not open 24/7);
4) those people who's budget are so tight that the cost of the ID (which is some states is $60), the bus fare, the day care for any kid/senior), etc... make the cost prohibitive. If they have to choose between baby formula and a Voter's ID, well the choice is simple. And people make these choices everyday between food and medicine, so an ID isn't as high a priority as living;
5) those people who aren't literate and rely on rumors as to what the requirements are;
6) those people with limited transportation access;
7) those people who don't have utilities (they live with someone else), credit cards (they live paycheck to paycheck), don't have passports (having never gone out of the country), use a post office box as their mailing address (not acceptable for residency proof for an ID);
8) those students who live at school;
9) those people who have moved recently;
etc., etc., etc.

The effect of the law is scooping too many people to weigh against the limited benefit of stopping frauds that this type of law doesn't prevent.
 
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ClintHardBall

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However, the effect of the law puts an barrier to some people. When you look at who is effected:
1) obviously those who would never be able to identify because they are using false ID's; - hence an ID with a picture would be necessary
2) people who are afraid of registering with the authorities for fear that they will be targeted for violence, brutality, or have family members that they are trying to protect; - Really who fits this category, criminals, drug dealers, rapists?
3) those people who cannot afford to take time off of work in order fill out the forms, for example someone who is the sole provider for their family (remember these ID offices are not open 24/7); - come on this is a lame excuse, most people have a license to drive use that
4) those people who's budget are so tight that the cost of the ID (which is some states is $60), the bus fare, the day care for any kid/senior), etc... make the cost prohibitive. If they have to choose between baby formula and a Voter's ID, well the choice is simple. And people make these choices everyday between food and medicine, so an ID isn't as high a priority as living; - below the poverty line can get it for FREE, problem SOLVED
5) those people who aren't literate and rely on rumors as to what the requirements are; - its required not an option
6) those people with limited transportation access; - if they can get to a voting location they can sure as heck get to a place to register
7) those people who don't have utilities (they live with someone else), credit cards (they live paycheck to paycheck), don't have passports (having never gone out of the country), use a post office box as their mailing address (not acceptable for residency proof for an ID); - Voter ID is simple take a picture provide SSN that is verified. Every legal citizen has an SSN.
8) those students who live at school; - Students need an ID to be on campus NOT an ISSUE
9) those people who have moved recently; - I have a drivers license and have moved multiple times not a big issue
 

keenobserver

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Voter ID laws have been a solution looking for a problem for quite a while now. The only purpose is to prevent people from voting who tend to vote one way - liberal or Democratic. George Washington did not need a voter ID, neither did Gerald Ford. I would be more worried about undercounts and overcounts and ballot manipulation than I would a fake voter. ID laws give the illusion of security but miss the potential for real abuse. No one is going to drag a corpse to a polling place - they may however add a vote in his name when the canvas is being done. That is where the security needs to be.

A greater problem for minority voters is they don't vote consistently. In 2008 Obama won big, in part because of a massive minority turn out. Ditto 2012. However low turnout in 2010 and 2014 by minorities especially set his agenda back because the GOP turned out big, in addition to a boost from gerrymandering. I have no problem with gerrymandering. There is no way to draw a district that will please every one, and districts do not occur naturally. Turnout will, over time eliminate that issue.

Returning to the original issue - ID laws - the only fair solution is give everyone who ever voted an immediate free pass for life voter Id, and start requiring new voters to have a universal FREE Id prior to being allowed to vote the first time. It will take a generation to implement, but it will address the problem, equally and uniformly.

Another issue is holding people accountable for putting out misleading information to discourage people from voting. In past elections in Maryland for example, the GOP put up signs in minority neighborhood saying all voters would be check for outstanding warrants and INS status before being allowed to vote. They also sent out an official looking letter telling certain voters that the election was moved to the following day. Obviously the GOP does not have a handle on fraud - but these examples happened.
 

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Clint

A few response to your retorts.

Your idea that the "solution" to "fake ID's is having a photo on them?Have you been living under a rock for the last 30 plus years? Anyone under 50 when ages got raised from 18 to 21 espescially if they went to college or just lived in or around a "college town" would have some experience with "fake ID's" and know how common and easily obtainable they are and also know that they ALL have pictures on them. Now call me crazy but I think that a fake "government issues photo ID" that is good enough to get by a bartender or doorman at club, a club that has it's liquor license at stake will be more than good enough to get past that normally volunteer often elderly "poll worker" so if there is in fact all these "millions of illegals" that are voting by "pretending to be some one else" and not "voting the right way" because if they were you would be "all for it" if they exist and are so hell bent on voting like you claim would they just get a fake ID so they could or a dozen of them so they could vote multiple times which is also something people like you claim is also "widespread". ????

To me the best "proof" that "impersonation type" voter fraud is either non-existent or no where near as "widespread' as you want to claim is this. If I walk into a polling place and try to claim that I am John Smith from just down the road first I am risking that that poll worker is not going to know by sight what John Smith looks like and know I am not him and/or that maybe John Smith, real or someone else with a fake ID has already voted and that little old lady who maybe does not know John Smith by sight will discover a signature on the "sign in sheet", either way don't you think that would "make the news" ? You know GD well that that republican "poll watcher" who probably has the local Fox station on speed dial would be in no time flat be reporting this "incedent" and with in an hour it would get beamed up to the mothership in NY and then it would be "breaking news" and wall to wall, Bill and Sean all the other talking heads at FOX would be all "see we told you so" it would be "all the proof they needed" but seeing as how we are going through multiple cycles with no such "news stories" that is good enough proof to me that if it happens at all it is VERY VERY rare.

To your contention that "most people" have drivers license and "use that".I know that it may come as huge shock to you but there are millions of people who live there entire lives in big cities, mostly East coast cities like NYC and Philly etc etc without ever having a DL or even ever learning how to drive. They have lived there entire lives without needing truly needing to have a "government issued photo ID" Their employer requires that they use direct deposit and has for years, they pay all there bills online or have them automatically drafted or pay in person in cash, My bank and just about all banks allow you to deposit a check into your account without showing a "photo ID" simply showing your debit card or little paper "account info is enough, after which you can walk over at an ATM and imediately withdraw that money all at once or over time depending on the amount so for all practical purposes yes you CAN "cash a check". I do not smoke but I have bought the occasional pack for a GF and I do buy a 5th of something from time to time and I have not been "carded" in years and I have never not once been asked to show ID of any kind to use a credit card, even when what I was purchasing was well over $1000 so there are 3 more of those things that supposedly I need a "photo ID" for but I do NOT.

But I guess as far as you are concerned those people "do not vote the right way" so in the end it is Ok if they do not.
 

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phonehome

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CONT.

As far as you "solution" making the ID "free" ignores the larger "costs" Maybe the ID itself is "free" but the most popular place to get these "free ID's" that with a very few rare exceptions they are only open Monday to Friday, 8 to 4 or 9 to 5 and if you are the likes of Scot Walker who would like to make even just getting the "free ID' hard/er your local DMV will not be open 5 days a week and it may be "reduced hours" on the remaining days, that is if he has not close the office all together "due to budget cuts" Now if your hours at work are the same then you can not go before or after work and if you are living "paycheck to paycheck" then you probably can not afford to miss the at least $50 that you will not earn at work that day so that is a "cost" and even if you can very few private sector employers will allow you time off to go and vote so how many do you think will allow you time off just to go and get an ID. Second if you can afford to loose that $50 plus and your boss will give you the time off you have to get there, most DMV's are out in the burbs, if you have a cars you will have a D/L and not be needing this "free ID" in the first place. They way to far to even think about walking to even if you do "have all day" they are often miles from any kind of public transportation so you would need to have someone else take you, assuming that they havea car, can afford to take the day off and have a boss that will let them and even then you may need to give them "gas money" so that is cost and if you need to take a taxi out there that will be super expensive and because getting a taxi to come out and get you when you get done if any wil even do it in the first place will also be super expensive, so that is another "cost" so your "free ID" is hardly free at all.

As far as your contention that because students that students use ID's to be on campus so it is "not an issue" in just about every state TX and NC being the best examples the expicitly state that that you can not use a "college ID" even though UT and UNC are both "state schools" owned and run "by the government" the university empoyee that hands you that ID is a state government employee that the build he/she works in is owned by the state, was built and is maintained by the state they do not make the cut as "government issued photo ID's" and they also can not be used as source documents to get that acceptable "free ID" Then there is the whole "you do not live there, you need to "go home"" or you are not a "resident" even though the larger state laws defining both say you do and you are.

Of course if they thought all those college students would "vote the right way" college ID's would be more than good enough.

Enough for now.
 

b.c.

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Actually Gore lost the unofficial recount.
If you want to blame anyone, blame the media for calling then not calling the state. Maybe people decided not to bother to vote once the state was called.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/recount/12ASSE.html

That's what the GOP, purveyors of the great "RIGHT" way, would have us believe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_election_recount


http://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/the-florida-recount-of-2000/

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/1-million-black-votes-didn-t-count-in-the-2000-2747895.php
 
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