No Gayness in Iran

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by arrivaderciroma, Oct 10, 2007.

  1. arrivaderciroma

    arrivaderciroma New Member

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    The Iranian President, Almadinijad, said that there is no homosexuality in Iran. I was wondering how he could say that. Since Moslem men don't hang with women socially like we do I'm thinking that the society must be pretty uptight and sexually repressed. I came to the conclusion that men have sex with eachother in Iran but don't consider it to be homosexuality because homosexuality is something bad and sex is good and good for you too.
    Are there any Iranian men who belong to LPSG that can shed some light on this for me?
     
  2. cantona666

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    Anyone admit beeing gay in Iran, would probably get killed..!! stoned to death! Bet there is many gay people there as every other country..!! Probably the president him self :tongue:
     
  3. No_Strings

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    I've never seen a gay man in Iran.
     
  4. dong20

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    Iran is an Islamic state, homosexuality is outlawed by the Koran. Thus, the Iranian president cannot be seen as a strong leader of a conservative Islamic state and admit that Homosexuality exists there.

    It's not been my experience that Iranian society is more sexually 'repressed' than, say that of America, in many respects perhaps less so but my experience in Iran is limited. The behaviour you cite does not necessarily result from repression (though certainly some does), much is a result of long cultural tradition, hardly the same thing.

    There is a difference between what happens officially and what happens actually. In this, Iran is no different to other nations.

    Of course Homosexuality exists, but not officially.
     
  5. VeeP

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    Ah, well actually what he said was "In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country.", which we may note is not the same as saying "we don't have homosexuality."

    Pretty easy to say you don't have homosexuals when they're summarily executed (via hanging, stoning, bisection by a sword, or dropping from a tall building or cliff) for their "crimes".
     
  6. frizzle

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    Well they're probably are homosexuals in Iran just not in as large numbers as in other countries. Also not as vocal about their oreitenation, well not for long anyway.
     
  7. arrivaderciroma

    arrivaderciroma New Member

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    -dong20

    So, dong20, is there such a thing as cultural repression? I think it matters when it becomes impossible to understand what your neighbor is saying because they can't speak the truth as we understand it. In some cultures people say yes when they mean no and it's punishable to speak truthfully. But what is the truth anyway? It's all so nuanced.

    and VeeP, I guess he's trying to point out a difference between our homosexuals and his. Is he saying or implying that his are better people because they are Iranian homosexuals who don't go to bars or dance together in public while ours are lewd and ungodly?

    I kind of think that by our standards every unmarried man in Iran is gay and half of the married men are too. What choice to they have?

    I've been to a few middle eastern countries and know that access to women for single men hardly exists outside of the family.
     
  8. D_Harry_Crax

    D_Harry_Crax Account Disabled

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    Check out the gay personal ads on an international web site such as manjam. You probably would be amazed at how many gay personals are on such sites from Muslim countries, including Iran, and many of the guys even show their faces (and, occasionally, other interesting body parts).
     
  9. VeeP

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    Um, "better"? No... he's saying homosexuals don't deserve to live. You're giving that clown far too much credit. He came here under the guise of having a "dialog with Americans"... anyone who believes that is a fool and he knows it.


    From 365 Gay The daily gay newspaper online:

    The Iranian leader was also asked about reports men who are gay or perceived to be gay have been executed.

    He refused to confirm or deny that executions of gays had taken place but then compared homosexuals to drug dealers and other criminals.

    "Why should they get sympathy?" he asked. "Don't you have capital punishment in the United States?"

    When pressed further Ahmadinejad said: "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like you do in your country. We do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have it."

    The remarks were greeted with loud jeers and laughter from the mostly student audience.

    "Our nation is free," Ahmadinejad declared.

    The assertion brought a rebuke from America's biggest LGBT civil rights organization.

    "Today’s assertions by President Ahmadinejad that there are no homosexuals in Iran would be simply absurd were it not for the fact that international human rights watchers have long documented some of the most horrific acts of persecution and violence committed against gay people in Iran," said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign.

    "These acts of terror have included incarcerations, beatings, and brutal executions. Ahmadinejad’s denial that there are gay people in Iran shows the extent to which he devalues the lives of the many citizens his government has and continues to violate."

     
  10. Hockeytiger

    Hockeytiger Active Member

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    It is a question of ideology clashing with reality and the fictions humans create in order make reality fit our own ideologies. It is a common kind of mistake made by many people (perhaps even all of us), even those who consider themselves rational and tolerant.

    No true Islamist can accept the existence of sexual orientation for it implies an orientation other that heterosexuality. From their (narrow minded) point of view, since God created mankind, and homosexuality is an abomination to God, God, would never have created a homosexual. They do not deny that homosexual acts occur, or that people may have urges to engage in them. An Islamist believes that there are those who submit to temptation and engage in evil acts of homosexuality.
     
  11. D_Humper E Bogart

    D_Humper E Bogart New Member

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    Hmm, evil Muslim fundies sound awfully like evil Christian fundies. Fuck them both (literally!)
     
  12. SpeedoGuy

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    lol, well said.

    Your post reminded me of my tour through the Tower of London some years ago. The Yeoman warder tour guides pointed out several times that torture was illegal in Britain throughout its history. But a look through the tower's dungeons revealed a remarkable array of, uhm, illegal devices. :smile:
     
  13. dong20

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    Of course, Tibet, Myanmar, North Korea, the former Baltic States...the list is endless. The OP was talking about sexual repression, which isn't the same thing. I don't think many would say the US is culturally repressed, but sexually....well I think that's less clear cut.

    I'm not really sure what that means.

    As have I, and there is truth in what you say, but as a blanket statement it's far from accurate. It's also very true that many people want it that way, including plenty of those it would seem (from our western viewpoint) to disadvantage.

    Naturally many don't, especially among those under say 25 and therein lies a problem. At what point does a desire for a change to established norms by a minority outweigh the desire for continuity by a majority, perhaps at the expense of the rights of that minority - said rights being detirmined by 'our' value system of course. That dilemma extends far beyond the realm of sexuality of course.
     
  14. Deno

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    Of course there isn't homosexuals in Iran, and there not developing nuclear weapons either. Right?
     
  15. lonesome_boy1980

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    Well guys, I am from IranHere I have to say: AHMADINEJAD is a liar, not only in the mentioned case but other cases. May be 15 years a go the HOMOSEXUALITY was a rare concept, but NOW it's so acute, Actually I don't have gay friends now, but I can see many in local chat rooms. HOMOSEXUALITY among young girls are even more acute, since girls have to keep their virgianity till mariage, so they should avoid sex with guys, and they usually get attracted toward LESBIAN stuff...Since Islam is against this issue, AHMADINEHAD wants to illustrate his country as a clean and united one,,,
     
  16. davidjh7

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    I'm sure it disappoints you no end that the rest of the world doesn't have the same punishments for homosexuals as Iran.
     
  17. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    I don't believe that it's necessarily a Muslim phenomenon. I had a 'friend' from Lebanon who said those very words, "Homosexuality in Lebanon doesn't exist." We are no longer friends.

    I also have a Turkish Muslim friend (one of my best friends and an awesome guy) who says that Turkish Muslims are fairly indifferent about homosexuality.

    I don't believe that this rhetoric comes from Muslims in general so much as fundamentalist governments or those under their regime. I sympathize for the homosexual men and women who live in this opression.
     
  18. frizzle

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    Well if it effected you, I wouldn't really care.
     
  19. davidjh7

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    You're dressing up as a Nazi for Halloween, aren't you?:rolleyes:
     
    Hockeytiger likes this.
  20. vibratingfinger

    vibratingfinger New Member

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    I lived in Iran long enough to know there are gays. Gays and lesbos boths. Surprising I know. There is a city in Iran called Ghazvin that's actually kind of known for their fondness of the male butt. You are not supposed to take a shit there. Also if you read some persian poetry it can be a bit homoerotic at times the way it describes men. Boys and girls of course go to separate schools in Iran and most other muslim countries. I remember starting in middle school in Iran there were always several classmates who used to get too excited around other boys. They'd always try to feel up other boys' butts or grope their genitals. It was so common and happened so frequently that no one thought much of it. There were always some kids who couldn't defend themselves who were the frequent victims of these harassments. Some of them didn't mind it much but some would become visibly agitated. None of us of course had heard of homosexuality or knew what it was. But I imagine if those boys(the aggressors) lived anywhere else they'd be full blown gay men. I'm not sure about the weaker boys, they may or may not have been gay.

    It's a little different for women since women as a whole are repressed in Iran. I'll just say they tend to be a lot more touchy feely with each other than western women. Very deep romantic relationships between them aren't unheard of. I think most people have heard of homosexual acts in harems between women which is I think is one of the sources of sexualization of harems in western culture. I've heard in recent years some women dress up as men to be free of the Islamic dress code, and I've been told some of those gals are actually chase other girls like the men they hang out with. That I guess is the closest thing the to the butch lesbians here.

    But ahmadinejad was right in one sense. There is really no active gay or lesbian subculture in Iran. Not until recently because of exposures to western media and even today the extent of their activities is very limited and those activities are obviously conducted in secret.
     
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