DC_DEEP said:My mind is boggled that there is any confusion at all here. "And" means exactly that - and. This item plus that item. It does not mean "either/or". The 4th Amendment, without equivocation, REQUIRES exactly four criteria for a search warrant: There must be probable cause; the witness must swear to that probable cause; the warrant must exactly describe the place to be searched; the warrant must exactly describe the person or thing being sought. If the theoretical search warrant specified as the thing sought "a number of phallic sex toys in excess of legal possession limits" then yes, I suppose by 4th amendment standards, that would be legal...
DC_DEEP said:Technically. Of course, I do not recognize the governments' authority to have any say about my sex toys. But for the sake of argument, yes, if the warrant specifically described a collection of dildoes in excess of "legal" limits, then it would meet 4th amendment criteria. Finding them while using a warrant specifying "child porn" would not
I do sort of vaguely understand your point, now... but that is the purpose of the introductory clause of the amendment. Your right to be secure in your person, house, papers, and effects shall not be violated. The first part of the amendment, which guarantees the rights to security against frivolous/unwarranted searches and seizures, cannot be seperated from the explanatory clause which explains when a search and seizure MAY be warranted... and it requires all four criteria. I could not follow, at all, your pee-in-the-pool analogy. This 4th amendment, when taken in its entirety and in its context, simply outlines due process. (Although politicians and supreme court justices ignore this when they find it convenient,) it allows no margin of error, no margin of interpretation, it allows no exceptions. It may be repugnant to think of it as such, but finding dead bodies in the closet when the warrant mentions only a search for drugs, well, ugly but still unconstitutional to allow the dead bodies as evidence in a trial, or even for "probable cause" for arrest. Sorry, folks, but it is just that clear. Don't get me wrong, it pisses me off no end when the cops fuck up and a disgusting criminal walks free on a technicality. But don't fault the Bill of Rights, fault the cops who did the shoddy work. Once you let that jinn out of the bottle, he'll never go back in.dong20 said:DC I'm not trying to be awkward honestly, I understand exactly what is meant by the spirit of the paragraph.
DC_DEEP said:I do sort of vaguely understand your point, now... but that is the purpose of the introductory clause of the amendment. Your right to be secure in your person, house, papers, and effects shall not be violated.
DC_DEEP said:I could not follow, at all, your pee-in-the-pool analogy. This 4th amendment, when taken in its entirety and in its context, simply outlines due process. (Although politicians and supreme court justices ignore this when they find it convenient,) it allows no margin of error, no margin of interpretation, it allows no exceptions. It may be repugnant to think of it as such, but finding dead bodies in the closet when the warrant mentions only a search for drugs, well, ugly but still unconstitutional to allow the dead bodies as evidence in a trial.
DC_DEEP said:or even for "probable cause" for arrest. Sorry, folks, but it is just that clear. Don't get me wrong, it pisses me off no end when the cops fuck up and a disgusting criminal walks free on a technicality. But don't fault the Bill of Rights, fault the cops who did the shoddy work. Once you let that jinn out of the bottle, he'll never go back in.
Sorcerer said:This is not the government our forefathers envisioned. 6 or so generations later, we have no knowledge of opression and tyranny. As many other civilized (and even 3rd world) governments seem to advance, we seem to be headed for a Monarchy, Neo-Fascism or a Dictatorship. Heck, even Socialism is starting to look good compared to the place we're headed.
dong20 said:I hate whats happening to your country and I don't live there but I am also concerned because, like flu, tyranny is contagious.![]()
SpeedoGuy said:...I feel its much too early to too write the U.S. off as a tyranny, or even a nascent tyranny..
SpeedoGuy said:When I reflect on some of the civil rights abuses the U.S. government has perpetuated in our history (particularly during wartime) such as legislated racism, concentration camps, sedition laws, or McCarthyism, the civil rights issues at stake today are really no more profound than those confronted in the past..
hardly unprecedented, sadly - anyone who's been reading the news this week will know what i mean when i say the bush is to french fries as reagan was to ketchupJackbytheSea said:There is present in this administration a disdain and contempt for the autonomy of the common man that, even with my limited study of history, appears to be palpatable and unprecedented.
In my current situation, that would not be the best route for me, but trust me, anyone who decides it's in his best interest to bust down my door would soon decide otherwise.derfman said:I guess a gun totin guy needs to chime in. The first cop that comes through my door with-out making enough noise to alert my dog or have me hear him....WILL BE SHOT DEAD....You really dont want to come to my home unexpected.
derfman said:I guess a gun totin guy needs to chime in. The first cop that comes through my door with-out making enough noise to alert my dog or have me hear him....WILL BE SHOT DEAD.
derfman said:I do not screw around with my rights I have faught so hard to keep.
derfman said:I am known by many as an extreemist in california because I own more than 20 rifles and 15 handguns.
Though his family may not see it that way...derfman said:I actually hope a cop does die as I described, it may make washington take a second to realize that the rights of a free state protected by a WELL armed individual may very well not be something they are willing to attack.
derfman said:And yes I have answered my door many times with the police looking freaked out because I do answer the door with a gun....normally a small handgun (.45 or .357) , but one time I did it with my double barrel.....was hillarious to see the cop backpedal.
derfman said:You really dont want to come to my home unexpected.:biggrin1:
Dr Rock said:actually i guess i technically own more guns than i could physically use at once, but that's only because it's impossible to legally sell them in this retarded country