Non-believers on a PE forum?

Big Al

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I didn't want to argue with you AL, but the above statement is amounst the most ludicrous things I've ever read here, it basically accuses anyone with a modicum of intelligence or independent rational thought of PE heresy. Being a dogmatist doesn't prove your point mate.

Frankly, get over yourself. This is a conversation on PE, not fundamentalist world religions. You may well be defending your opinion, if not your living but you are doing so rather poorly in my opinion.

The mentality supporting the suppression of knowledge is the same- whether it be PE or any other subject. The difference lies in the degree of action taken against the source. The ridiculing tone of your latest response just further proves that point. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but that's not what's being debated here.

To counter, a truly intelligent and rational mind will review all of the relevant data available before establishing an opinion.

Men have been trying PE for as long there have been men, basically, and in all that time, no one has conclusively proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt to the satisfaction of the recognized medical world, that it works. To imply otherwise is just self reassurance.

Have you had a chance to review any of the data that's been supplied here supporting PE (especially those from medical professionals)? If you're trying to establish your point it would make sense to stop making blanket statements, especially when there's data on this very page proving otherwise.

There are many valid medical applications that haven't been "approved" by modern Western medicine. Many non-Western medicinal techniques fall under this umbrella- mny of which have been around for thousands of years and have more than enough data to back their effectiveness.

Again, how do you assume to speak on behalf of the entire medical profession?

I think the point you have glossed over here, is that people with MD and PHD have invested much into the study of their fields, beyond mere conjecture and anecdotal accounts, often proving previously unknown discoveries.

Yes, PE is a researched field, yes, in the future a PE solution will most likely be found, probably via regenerative medicine, but until then, I repeat, the mass consensus of opinion by all these 'so called know nothing' MDs and PHDs is that PE is just not medically recognized as a viable practice. Are the all wrong? It's possible, but highly unlikely.

Their views carries far more weight than any internet testimonial or retailer and will do to anyone with a truly unbiased mind.

Please stop the false inferences! Nowhere in my posts do I allude to medical professionals being "know nothings". In my ten years' experience in this field, I have collaborated with many great minds (quite a few MDs, too) and have studied a wide variety of subjects that apply to this field. I'm familiar with the amount of work required to obtain a doctoral degree and have the utmost respect for medical/science professionals- especially those able to keep an open mind.

You have yet to provide any external data to support your POV. Please provide these overwhelming sources of medical opinion that you speak of. If not, your arguments will continue to run in circles.

Have you attempted to educate yourself on PE since you made this post or are you so bent on trying to be "right" that you'd rather discount the information and stick to your guns?

Men are free to try what ever method they like in the world of PE, and I'm sure they will continue to do so for the rest of human history, it's nothing new after all. If you feel something is working for you, then God bless, just don't feel you have the right berate anyone who disagrees with you, especially in the face of overwhelming currently recognized medical information to the counter.

That... is the definition of fascism.

Fascism-
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality

A fascist's aim would be to control information through misdirection and lies. Let me make something clear- I'm not asking anyone here to buy anything nor am I asking anyone to believe any one particular mode of thinking. The only thing I've asked is that people keep an open mind. I've done nothing but supply information that supports my point of view. You've been free but unwilling to do the same. In no way have I suppressed or berated any of your statements.

I (and other members here) have repeatedly pointed out that you are picking and choosing what to respond to in order to bolster your arguments. You haven't been able to counter any arguments here with anything other than opinions and made up statistics/generalizations as well as a few unnecessary acerbic remarks. I don't mind debating you, but I ask that you please keep to the subject at hand and avoid inferences meant to be insulting. I have shown you respect- please do the same for me.
 

Big Al

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If jelqing works, then in reason shouldn't masturbating make your penis bigger?

That's a common misconception. An intense jelqing session isn't pleasureable to most men. If you masturbate by manipulating your penis until the tissues stretch beyond their normal capacity, then you may have something there :)
 

Snakebyte

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Well, it's pretty simple. The guys who think it does not work, stay out of this PE subforum. In case you don't think it doesn't work, why the heck are you here?

The guys who KNOW that it actually works, just ignore those stubborn non-believers. There's no need to discuss with them since they have their own opinion based on experts or whatever. Guess what, the less people do PE, the bigger will the guys be who do PE by comparison. If you know that it works, just laugh about the ones who always will say that it doesn't.

btw:
I'll be on (local german) TV next week. Topic will be university stuff. If I say "PE works" on that TV show I think it's pretty the same credible evidence as these Sue Whatever and Dr. Doe or however they were called.
 

B_FruitFly

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I'm not saying it does or doesn't. i don't know. I just noticed how it was done and wondered why masturbating doesn't have a similar effect, since there both very similar movements.
 

Draconis71

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Hell, I'd say the claims made by many companies selling "PE" are re-dick-less!
Most are un-substantiated, and backed up with "pseudo-science". Hell, had one in a weighlifting magazine, promising a "more musculare penis", refering to the penis as a "muscle, just like any other"
(gains up to 2"-4", guaranteed... same with up to 45% gain in girth, guaranteed, but you can go farther, and have to stop, or you won't fit". Hell, a 0 length/girth gain has fulfilled the guarantee... it's UP to the stats they said...

Anyways... Only thing that DOES get bigger... is the companies wallets.
 

B_VinylBoy

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I'm not saying it does or doesn't. i don't know. I just noticed how it was done and wondered why masturbating doesn't have a similar effect, since there both very similar movements.

Same movement, different techniques. That's by video standards, of course. From what I can tell, most people don't jelq to orgasm. Then again, what do I know?
 

Snakebyte

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Hell, I'd say the claims made by many companies selling "PE" are re-dick-less!
Most are un-substantiated, and backed up with "pseudo-science". Hell, had one in a weighlifting magazine, promising a "more musculare penis", refering to the penis as a "muscle, just like any other"
(gains up to 2"-4", guaranteed... same with up to 45% gain in girth, guaranteed, but you can go farther, and have to stop, or you won't fit". Hell, a 0 length/girth gain has fulfilled the guarantee... it's UP to the stats they said...

Anyways... Only thing that DOES get bigger... is the companies wallets.

We are definetely not speaking of those companies, pills, patches or whatever. Every form of cell tissue can grow due to stimuli. Manual exercises are such physical stimuli.
 

Big Al

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Hell, I'd say the claims made by many companies selling "PE" are re-dick-less!
Most are un-substantiated, and backed up with "pseudo-science". Hell, had one in a weighlifting magazine, promising a "more musculare penis", refering to the penis as a "muscle, just like any other"
(gains up to 2"-4", guaranteed... same with up to 45% gain in girth, guaranteed, but you can go farther, and have to stop, or you won't fit". Hell, a 0 length/girth gain has fulfilled the guarantee... it's UP to the stats they said...

Anyways... Only thing that DOES get bigger... is the companies wallets.

It's easy to discount PE based on the actions of some companies that receive negative exposure in the media, but this can be said for any business. The key is to study the stuff that does work.

The penis isn't like the biceps- you're not going to make it bigger by doing "penis curls", but it is composed mainly of smooth muscle tissue, and the fascia and ligaments that compose the penis is very much like that you'd find in muscle tissue. Learn how to stress these tissues (without injuring yourself) and you'll learn how PE works-

The Penis Enlargement Gym - The Penis is a Muscle!

The Penis Enlargement Gym - Penis Enlargement: The Science Behind It

Anatomy of the Human Penis: The Relationship of the Architecture Between Skeletal and Smooth Muscles -- Hsu et al. 25 (3): 426 -- Journal of Andrology
 

Big Al

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The guys who KNOW that it actually works, just ignore those stubborn non-believers. There's no need to discuss with them since they have their own opinion based on experts or whatever. Guess what, the less people do PE, the bigger will the guys be who do PE by comparison. If you know that it works, just laugh about the ones who always will say that it doesn't.

I'm not debating whether or not PE works- what I'm debating is the illogic and lack of data being used by some nay-sayers to make their point. Personally, I think it's great that die-hard skeptics are here. Many of them will research the information available on this thread and learn something valuable.

btw:
I'll be on (local german) TV next week. Topic will be university stuff. If I say "PE works" on that TV show I think it's pretty the same credible evidence as these Sue Whatever and Dr. Doe or however they were called.

It would be great if you could get a clip of that for us to see! :cool:
 
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Snakebyte

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I'm not debating whether or not PE works- what I'm debating is the illogic and lack of data being used by some nay-sayers to make their point. Personally, I think it's great that die-hard skeptics are here. Many of them will research the information available on this thread and learn something valuable.

You may be right but almost every thread with questions gets hijacked with:

"it doesn't work"
"be happy what you have"
etc.

I really think it's not that nice to read for people who have hope in enlarging their penises. They're awaiting informative answers and not ignorant responses.

In my opinion this PE forum is not to bring over disbelievers but to help those searching for guidance.
 

Big Al

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You may be right but almost every thread with questions gets hijacked with:

"it doesn't work"
"be happy what you have"
etc.

I really think it's not that nice to read for people who have hope in enlarging their penises. They're awaiting informative answers and not ignorant responses.

In my opinion this PE forum is not to bring over disbelievers but to help those searching for guidance.

I've discussed the LPSG/PE phenomenon with several well-respected veteran members of other PE forums. Few of them will participate in this sub-forum due to the prevalent negative attitudes displayed here.

One of these gentlemen has an interesting theory about why LPSG's PE forum seems to suffer from this- he calls it the "WHM Defense" theory. He stated that he believes some Well Hung Men (WHM) and their admirers feel threatened about the possibility of average/below average endowed men becoming hung themselves, which would diminish WHMs' "specialness".

His theory may have some merit given the fact that when you do find questions about PE here, they're often followed up with intensely negative and sometimes vicious comments just as you described.

I'm just surprised that, for a sub-forum as large and as old [since late 2002] as this one, there's so little actual PE information available here. The same questions keep getting asked over and over again. I suggest that the more informative posts in this sub-forum get stuck so that we can avoid this from happening.

I'd like to thank the members here that reply with encouragement and information to posters seeking knowledge. By supplying real PE data, we'll be able to provide hope and education to men looking to increase their penis size. Then they too can be "WHM"- the understanding kind. :smile:
 

Pitbull

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I'm just surprised that, for a sub-forum as large and as old [since late 2002] as this one, there's so little actual PE information available here. The same questions keep getting asked over and over again. :smile:

I have felt this way for a long time.
I have found it to be most helpful here because with a little effort one finds some great links to some really great sites and forums.

In a way this limits the development of our subforum into anything substantial. We are kind of like a farm team for the larger forums.
Nothing wrong with that. Just the way it is. Kind of like once you visit the big city your realize you live in small town.

The people here cover a much wider spectrum of types than on a PE forum. The skeptics seem to be in a majority.

As a Large Penis Support group I think it is well within our mission to support those wishing a large or larger penis.
The skeptics are not providing that support.
They are doing a disservice by discouraging people and a disservice to themselves.
 

Pitbull

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Hey Nick, I don't deny PE my have a short term effect, but I have looked into the subject, as a smaller guy, and concluded the common consensus of opinion of the professional medical world to be, PE's best methods are little more than a glamor.

Despite the honest defense of PE, which is acknowledged, that fact remains that 99.9% of medical practitioners rebuke the claims of PE enthusiasts.

I'm inclined to take their advice over internet testimonials. This isn't a position of don't knock what you haven't tried, some folks drink their piss for health reason, doesn't mean I'm gonna give that a go before I express my disbelief in it either, lol.

Hi Pup,

Like your avitar.
Don't do any PE
Then you might become Rugby Dog and won't be as cute.

Now for my serious comments.

I feel compelled to write this even though I feel you are a committed skeptic who will ignore it.
Or a committed skeptic that will reply and tell me I'm wrong.
Natural PE should not be compared to drinking piss.
(But it did make me laugh)

You said you haven't tried it because it doesn't work.
From reading your posts, I don't think I can say anything that will make you change your mind.

This is written more for the member who is a skeptic that might be a little more open to the possibility that PE might work.

I will not give you the internet testimonial, but I could.

Big Al posted a great link here.
FOCUS YOUR PE & GAIN! TGC Theory Explained! - Penis Enlargement Gym
One of the people posting at the PE Gym on that thread - "Iguana" - has his gain info in his signature.
"May 2006: 5.75" X 4.5" - Now: 7.25" X 4.875""

This is probably what one might realistically hope to achieve with dedication and work.
1 & 1/2 inches in 2 years.
Not non stop life consuming PE.
A little time invested most days.

1 & 1/2 inches in 2 years.
Average gain 1/4 inch in 4 months.

This is why most people give up and say it doesn't work.
And if most people gained 1/4" - it won't look any bigger.
Probably not with a half inch either.
Most would probably think I'm not measuring correctly.

You state 99.9% of medical practitioners rebuke the claims of PE enthusiasts.
Where did you get that figure?
What evidence is presented to rebuke the claims?
What claims are being rebuked and which ones ignored?
There are the fantastic unbelievable claims that are unbelievable for a reason. They are bogus made up lies!
It is easy to say:
"Bob Megawang who said he gained 4 inches in 6 months with penis pills and wonder stretches is lying"
Does that mean "Iguana" who cliams to have gained 1 & 1/2 inches in 2 years is lying?
No.
He is more credible because he is not trying to sell anything,
and his claim seem much more reasonable.

But you, RugbyPup, don't have to believe "Iguana".
You don't have to do PE.
You will have the same penis next year that you have this year and had last year.
You believe that if you did a year of PE you would still have the same penis next year.
That is fine.
And I accept and respect that.
And I welcome you posting your thoughts and opinions.

But you seem to be on some sort of anti PE crusade and you haven't even tried it to give your own testimonial.
You speak only with the authority of others.
And their authority is questioned.
I don't think your persistent discouragement serves any useful purpose.
If someone wishes to try PE, as long as they do it responsibly with regard to avoiding injury, I would encourage them.
At the very least I would be neutral.
I would caution them to be very careful before spending any money.
That the information in many of the exercise routines could be found by using a little effort searching the internet without out spending any money
If nothing happens. If their size remains the same. What is the problem?
They wasted some time.
We all waste time on lots of things.
Then we move on.

Most people who jelq will admit to "better" erections even if they do not experience any gain.
So there is a benefit they probably experience and not have totally wasted their effort.

But most importantly,
Why are PE enthusiasts so enthusiastic about PE if it doesn't work?

Especially those who have nothing to sell.
Those who just seem happy and want to share a success.

As far as medical studies goes.
Modern medicine can make your arm or leg longer.
Requires surgery by a specialist.
But the lengthening is achieved by traction.
Continuous traction.

Jelqing is intermittent traction.

There are reasons why society and the medical community will put effort and research and have specialty hospitals for into treating limb deformities.
Natural PE doesn't qualify for the same effort.
There is skepticism.
Lack of respect.
It is not viewed seriously.
The profit motive is missing.
(Think about it - you do some fantastic study to show that PE enlargement works - how can you get the money you invested back? Selling natural PE enlargement coursed over the internet. Not a new idea.)

I can see the difficulties with such a study.
Cooperation of the subjects and verifying that they did the routines for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years.

So if anyone is serious about trying.
Go to the links Big Al gave.
It will not cost you any money to do the exercises.
Yes you can spend money, but you don't have to.

If you are serious.
Be ready to commit a year.
With long stretches (no pun intended) of time where you will say to yourself "This is not working".

Do not overdo it!
You can hurt yourself or damage the penis.
The "no pain no gain" does not apply here.

Take your pictures. Keep your journal.

I know an inch doesn't seem like much, but I sure most men would be very pleased to have one more inch. - Especially in the 5, 6, and 7 inch range.

When you have achieved something.
Come back here from the friendly encouraging places you were hanging out like Thunder's or PE Gym and tell your story to the skeptics.
 

seahorses

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Hi Pup,

I feel compelled to write this.....

I shouldn’t hold your breath waiting for an answer, you’ve asked to many awkward questions where points can only logically, be conceded. He talks of PE being a waste of time when in reality he’s the time waster. He offers no constructive argument against PE, or reason behind his crusade and one can only wonder if at some time he may have half-heartedly attempted PE and quickly gave up, or just hasn’t the bottle to try it and is jealous where others have; in other words, sour grapes. I mean, I don’t see many others not interested in PE flocking here in their droves to join this debate, much less visit this forum. What’s the point if you’re not interested; it’s only if you’re interested or have an agenda that you become involved, neither of which, so he claims, applies to him? Not to mention him putting into practice every aspect of his signature that he says he despises in others; how does he expect to be taken seriously? As sad as it is, I feel he’s only using the debate to get his jollies and the best approach is simply ignore him.
 

Rugbypup

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I shouldn’t hold your breath waiting for an answer, you’ve asked to many awkward questions where points can only logically, be conceded. He talks of PE being a waste of time when in reality he’s the time waster. He offers no constructive argument against PE, or reason behind his crusade and one can only wonder if at some time he may have half-heartedly attempted PE and quickly gave up, or just hasn’t the bottle to try it and is jealous where others have; in other words, sour grapes. I mean, I don’t see many others not interested in PE flocking here in their droves to join this debate, much less visit this forum. What’s the point if you’re not interested; it’s only if you’re interested or have an agenda that you become involved, neither of which, so he claims, applies to him? Not to mention him putting into practice every aspect of his signature that he says he despises in others; how does he expect to be taken seriously? As sad as it is, I feel he’s only using the debate to get his jollies and the best approach is simply ignore him.

I would dignify that with a resonse Seahorse, but I'm having a tea party with Father Christmas and I'm expecting the Easter bunny any minute...
 

Snakebyte

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rugby, no hard feelings, but the first line of your signature describes yourself pretty good in this context.

It's ok that you don't believe in PE. But why the hell do you visit this forum? Too much spare time? Seeking for attention or argument? Or does your subconscious want that you will be convinced here that it works?

After all your presence doesn't make any sense.

Btw: At thundersplace there's credible evidence for the success of PE. It's the same as if there was proof for the existence of god and still the atheists would deny him. And no, I am no zealot, I am an agnostic.

Btw 2:
You all say the experts state that PE does not work? That does not count for the German experts. There was actually a TV study where several test subjects used different methods over months. The result was:
- pills no gain
- patches no gain
- Manual exercises -> GAIN
- Stretch devises -> GAIN
So what do you say now after experts found out that it works?
 
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ledroit

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rugby, no hard feelings, but the first line of your signature describes yourself pretty good in this context.

Btw 2:
You all say the experts state that PE does not work? That does not count for the German experts. There was actually a TV study where several test subjects used different methods over months. The result was:
- pills no gain
- patches no gain
- Manual exercises -> GAIN
- Stretch devises -> GAIN
So what do you say now after experts found out that it works?

Snakebyte, great post. Like you, I am no zealot, I am an agnostic when it comes to things I have no direct experience in. Unless I have time myself to run around and collect the before and after PE data, all I have are results from people who do that for a living. I don't see the point in getting all charged up about my own "beliefs." That doesn't add any value for me, or for others reading the topic.

People visit this site, look at cocks, think about cock-related issues for all kinds of reasons. I like the guys here who speak their minds or share their own experiences and ideas, or defend them without attacking anyone else. The ones who jump on the first opportunity to attack others seem pretty weak to me.

Calling somebody an asshole or an idiot without cause contradicts the purpose of the site itself, just as a bully trying to drive everybody else out of a bar or playground is directly at odds with what a bar is all about, or a playground.

People who like this site, or a bar, a playground, or any other public forum have a right to protect both themselves and the place from anybody who tries to screw it up, or screw up what they are trying to say. But the method is important. A shouting match between two bullies or "believers" screaming at each other leads to the virtual equivalent of fistfights. Goes nowhere. Moderators eventually have to throw somebody out of the bar.

But trying to think, no matter what the topic is, is a good thing. We can all share ideas, since they are based on something we all share: reason. We can't all share experiences, since some are gay, straight, bi, old, young, virgins, whores, prudes, libertarians, what have you. Nor can we all share each other's feelings or emotions. Feelings are specific to individuals. Strong feelings or emotions can privatize and isolate people easily, especially if they are difficult to explain or describe, or come from very personal experiences few others may have had.

That's what can makes it hard to talk about sex, or even our cocks, for guys in general. For me, this is what makes the site and posts like yours valuable. It's a place where people can think and talk about things they have and have not experienced directly. People who post like you keep the conversation going, instead of slamming doors in other's faces.

Well done.
 

D_Mulbury Pinprick

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Oh tedious, tedious.... as we say in the north (UK North that is)... "whatever!"

So for you guys that don't believe PE works, that's fine, no one is forcing anyone to believe anything. But just for the record, I got an inch when I did PE 8 years ago (6.5 to 7.5 after an erratic irregular routine). I know it works and that's why I'm about to re-start soon now that I have time again.