North carolina bigotry

Klingsor

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The law does not in any way discriminate against anyone. Nope. Not at all.

And then you go on to say . . .

If someone doesn't want to do business with you, for any reason, they should have the right to say no. And you shouldn't have to serve and do business with someone who you don't like or disagree with, for any reason.

Sorry, but that's the very essence of discrimination: "Turn around. We don't serve your kind here. Just go somewhere else."
 

Oxnard

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And then you go on to say . . .



Sorry, but that's the very essence of discrimination: "Turn around. We don't serve your kind here. Just go somewhere else."
In the law, the difference is whether or not the business is a public accommodation. Private clubs can and do discriminate all they want.

If a bakery really wants to discriminate, all they have to do is make people apply for a membership in order to buy their products.
 

Boobalaa

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Puuleez ..we're talking about bathrooms here..
I just got to the part of , " One Nation Under God", when in 1962, The SCOTUS prohibited state mandated prayers in Public Schools, so then the people who wanted praying in public schools attempted to amend the Constitution. Humph! Religion sure has come along way in 54 years, hunh? From school prayer amendments to policing bathrooms..my, my..
 
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Klingsor

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In the law, the difference is whether or not the business is a public accommodation. Private clubs can and do discriminate all they want.

If a bakery really wants to discriminate, all they have to do is make people apply for a membership in order to buy their products.

It's also a matter of whether you belong to a protected category of people (as in the 1964 Civil Rights Act). In this respect, being LGBT is still more problematic than being of a particular sex, religion, or ethnicity.
 
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Oxnard

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It's also a matter of whether you belong to a protected category of people (as in the 1964 Civil Rights Act). In this respect, being LGBT is still more problematic than being of a particular sex, religion, or ethnicity.
Public attitudes about GLBT are changing very fast right now. Hopefully things won't be this bad for much longer.
 
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keenobserver

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One would think. But reactionary measures like in North Carolina can't help but be discouraging.

In a way the backlash is a sign we are winning It is a last gasp, groping at straws strategy. Look at the reaction it has prompted. The NCAA, the NBA, Disney, and several other major corporations and cities have stood on our side and said, "This is unacceptable." Ten years ago no one would have expected anyone, let alone THAT type of a roster to stand with LGBT people.

That, my friends is what victory looks like.
 
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I think the transgender community can leave themselves open for abuse here as well.

As it can happen now, and probably happens often without anyone knowing is there maybe males dressing as females to enter female toilets. It could happen that some females do the same thing, who knows.

Where does the line between transgender and cross dresser start or finish? What lay person could distinguish a difference in an environment or community charged and overloaded with protection of children? I am not accusing anyone here of bigotry, against transgender or whatever. Just that there will be those who will take an opportunity and use it for perverted causes which will only damage a just cause.

It comes down to, how would you prevent abuse of a law and at the same time prevent further abuse or harm or ridicule to those who are genuine transgender?

People much of the time don't ask questions first.

And no, just because you whack on female garb and a bit of makeup for a bit of a fetish does not make you a danger to the community either. But if a law is in place, it's a law that could be abused, how would you prove it is being abused? How do you stop human suspicion?
 
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Oxnard

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I think the transgender community can leave themselves open for abuse here as well.

As it can happen now, and probably happens often without anyone knowing is there maybe males dressing as females to enter female toilets. It could happen that some females do the same thing, who knows.

Where does the line between transgender and cross dresser start or finish? What lay person could distinguish a difference in an environment or community charged and overloaded with protection of children? I am not accusing anyone here of bigotry, against transgender or whatever. Just that there will be those who will take an opportunity and use it for perverted causes which will only damage a just cause.

It comes down to, how would you prevent abuse of a law and at the same time prevent further abuse or harm or ridicule to those who are genuine transgender?

People much of the time don't ask questions first.

And no, just because you whack on female garb and a bit of makeup for a bit of a fetish does not make you a danger to the community either. But if a law is in place, it's a law that could be abused, how would you prove it is being abused? How do you stop human suspicion?

Your logical fallacy is slippery slope
 
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Boobalaa

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I think the transgender community can leave themselves open for abuse here as well.

As it can happen now, and probably happens often without anyone knowing is there maybe males dressing as females to enter female toilets. It could happen that some females do the same thing, who knows.

Where does the line between transgender and cross dresser start or finish? What lay person could distinguish a difference in an environment or community charged and overloaded with protection of children? I am not accusing anyone here of bigotry, against transgender or whatever. Just that there will be those who will take an opportunity and use it for perverted causes which will only damage a just cause.

It comes down to, how would you prevent abuse of a law and at the same time prevent further abuse or harm or ridicule to those who are genuine transgender?

People much of the time don't ask questions first.

And no, just because you whack on female garb and a bit of makeup for a bit of a fetish does not make you a danger to the community either. But if a law is in place, it's a law that could be abused, how would you prove it is being abused? How do you stop human suspicion?
Well alrighty then, let's say a Man who likes lil boys masquerades in a black costume with a white collar or a black robe, or a multi colored gown
Here's another, another man walks around masquerading as a protector of the community, wearing a badge and carrying a gun, harbors certain beliefs that actually put the community he sworn to protect, in danger
 

Klingsor

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Well alrighty then, let's say a Man who likes lil boys masquerades in a black costume with a white collar or a black robe, or a multi colored gown
Here's another, another man walks around masquerading as a protector of the community, wearing a badge and carrying a gun, harbors certain beliefs that actually put the community he sworn to protect, in danger

Exactly. The most dangerous disguises are authority and respectability. Transgender and cross dressing people, on the other hand, are among the most exposed and vulnerable.
 

Industrialsize

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I think the transgender community can leave themselves open for abuse here as well.

As it can happen now, and probably happens often without anyone knowing is there maybe males dressing as females to enter female toilets. It could happen that some females do the same thing, who knows.
It does NOT happen. This law is trying to fix a problem that DOESN'T exist. I challenge you to find me an instance, ANYWHERE in the United States where a man was arrested for wearing female clothes and makeup simply for the reason of entering a female bathroom for the purpose of sexual gratification. Go.....
 
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Well alrighty then, let's say a Man who likes lil boys masquerades in a black costume with a white collar or a black robe, or a multi colored gown
Here's another, another man walks around masquerading as a protector of the community, wearing a badge and carrying a gun, harbors certain beliefs that actually put the community he sworn to protect, in danger

Thank you for proving further my point about human suspicion, how some people do not ask questions first. I did not say anywhere in my post that a male wearing female clothing, transgender or otherwise had committed a crime or abuse, and that there are those in a community which take advantage of a good cause.

My post was more to do if not all to do with the transgender community being open to abuse from a society primed to be suspicious of everyone. Not to trust anyone, not to believe anyone.

As I said in my post, people much of the time don't listen to reason. If you took the time to read my post properly, I would hope you take the time to understand it.

For your further information, my partner works for the education department, prior to this, president of a national parents organization. There is a movement here to introduce unisex toilets at schools, particularly secondary to help crack down on bullying and transphobia after a number of incidents.

Something which I support, because it's an education process to change the way a world thinks, and educating kids before they become adults is a way to get rid of the fear and suspicion.

I hope you realise by my previous post, and this one, I try for a sit on the fence view, rather than a defensive or attacking stance. I am sure you are old enough and wise enough to realise little is gained from the latter in these sorts of civil changes.

I try to use my experiences and the little bit of wisdom I have, to understand, not bash people over the head or get in their face. Some people have no intention of trying to understand.
 
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On the radio today I heard that Sidwell Friends School (private school in D.C. where Obama girls attend) is set to permit males who identify as females (and vice-versa) to use the female bathrooms and locker rooms. However, I haven't been able to find anything on the internet about it. By chance have any of you heard anything about this? I hope it's true because I believe it would be a very positive sentiment by the Obama's and the school to be willing to their employees and their students to use the gender facilities with which they identify.
 

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‘Right Wing Extremists’ Dehumanize Transgender People Through “Bathroom Bills” – Rising Up with Sonali

The state of Kansas has become the latest flashpoint in the battle over bathroom rights nationwide. A bill being considered by the state legislature would require that people could only use restrooms in public schools and universities that aligned with their biological sex at birth. Furthermore, if students caught a transgender person in a prohibited bathroom they could sue their school for $2,500. Advocates for transgender rights are calling it a “bounty to hunt for transpeople in bathrooms.”
 
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Oxnard

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‘Right Wing Extremists’ Dehumanize Transgender People Through “Bathroom Bills” – Rising Up with Sonali

The state of Kansas has become the latest flashpoint in the battle over bathroom rights nationwide. A bill being considered by the state legislature would require that people could only use restrooms in public schools and universities that aligned with their biological sex at birth. Furthermore, if students caught a transgender person in a prohibited bathroom they could sue their school for $2,500. Advocates for transgender rights are calling it a “bounty to hunt for transpeople in bathrooms.”
Disgusting. Some people will stoop to anything to pile their hate on others.
 
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