Not a christian or a royalist, therefore I love my country's (UK) national anthem

dandelion

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Posts
13,297
Media
21
Likes
2,705
Points
358
Location
UK
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
but it remindes me about this song Marlene Dietrich - Sag mir, wo die Blumen sind - YouTube tell me where the flowers gone
I preferred lilly marlene. My ex's dad put it on his computer at startup. Marlene Dietrich sings Lili Marleen in German - YouTube or english Marlene Dietrich Lili Marleen - YouTube


It rather reminds me of this one:
Loreley on Rhine - YouTube
Ive got the piano score for that somewhere as part of an old book of folk songs. Yes, I agree. Maybe the cabaret guy heard it too.

Perados, is this old nationalistic stuff really banned? Looking through the linked vids I see there is Horst Wessel. Theres a nice spoof of that somewhere, american I think, something like the Marx brothers. Springtime for Hitler? Springtime for Hitler - The Producers(1968) - YouTube

Or the lambeth walk? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHtEKSg-ycQ&feature=related

ed:I see you beat me to it with the producers
 
Last edited:

Perados

Superior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Posts
11,002
Media
9
Likes
2,505
Points
333
Location
Germany
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
I preferred lilly marlene. My ex's dad put it on his computer at startup. Marlene Dietrich sings Lili Marleen in German - YouTube or english Marlene Dietrich Lili Marleen - YouTube
also a great song, in special the history of that song... written years bevor WW2, never a success, in WW2 it become a hit for every soldier

Ive got the piano score for that somewhere as part of an old book of folk songs. Yes, I agree. Maybe the cabaret guy heard it too.

Perados, is this old nationalistic stuff really banned? Looking through the linked vids I see there is Horst Wessel. Theres a nice spoof of that somewhere, american I think, something like the Marx brothers. Springtime for Hitler? Springtime for Hitler - The Producers(1968) - YouTube

Or the lambeth walk? The Lambeth Walk (Dancing Nazis) - YouTube
but i loooooove this song, maybe cause its a musical and im a gay german :cool: SpringTime for Hitler in HQ! - YouTube
doesnt look uma good...?
i have no clue what is all forbidden, but i doubt that a lots of songs are. - but THE horst wessel song definitly ( a good example with hirst wessel, how disgusting the nazis were: after his death (horst wessel), they used a anit war song, from the comunists "der kleine trompeter" and changed the lyric to a horst wessel anthem)
its mainly our anthem... and not a song but also "mein kampf" is forbidden. useually its forbidden to print or sell it in the whole world, cause the state of bavaria owns all the rights... but outside of germany not really mutch people care
 
Last edited:

englad

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Posts
2,881
Media
28
Likes
7,905
Points
468
Location
Germany
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
but also "mein kampf" is forbidden. useually its forbidden to print or sell it in the whole world, cause the state of bavaria owns all the rights... but outside of germany not really mutch people care

You'd be surprised actually, it's starting to get more popular in India.

Hitler
 

englad

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Posts
2,881
Media
28
Likes
7,905
Points
468
Location
Germany
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
j

the deutschladlied was written on the island helgoland, whitch belonged to britain at that time. late britain and germany maid a deal. island helgoland for the german collony east afrika...


It wasn't the whole German colony of East Afrika which was swapped for Heligoland (last remnant of the territorities Britain got after getting Hannoverian monarchs), it was just the island of Zanzibar, not the mainland which was known as Tanganyika beforehand, that was mandated to Britain after World War One. Tanganyika and Zanzibar were eventually united after independence to form the country of Tanzania in 1964.

You can still see the effects of that to this day, for example the swahili word for school in Kenya and Zanzibar is Skuli (after the English word), and the word in mainland Tanzania (i.e. Tanganyika) is Shule.
 

dandelion

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Posts
13,297
Media
21
Likes
2,705
Points
358
Location
UK
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
also a great song, in special the history of that song... written years bevor WW2, never a success, in WW2 it become a hit for every soldier
Thats what we need, a good war. Oh, the americans already thought of that.

"mein kampf" is forbidden. useually its forbidden to print or sell it in the whole world, cause the state of bavaria owns all the rights... but outside of germany not really mutch people care
Thats interesting someone was saying they were reading it the other day, cant remember who. Seems to be available on ebay.
 

Perados

Superior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Posts
11,002
Media
9
Likes
2,505
Points
333
Location
Germany
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
You'd be surprised actually, it's starting to get more popular in India.

Hitler

lol
this says all:

“In our country we need more pride and self-confidence. Hitler developed his country in a very short time through industrialization. Yes, he definitely had some bad qualities, but we can learn from his management style and leadership skills,” reader Ram Kumar believes.

it has to be banned... you cant learn anything for reading it
 

englad

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Posts
2,881
Media
28
Likes
7,905
Points
468
Location
Germany
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
lol
this says all:

“In our country we need more pride and self-confidence. Hitler developed his country in a very short time through industrialization. Yes, he definitely had some bad qualitites (Quote)


To be honest, he sounds a bit like Nick Griffin's infamous quote of "Yes, Adolf went a bit too far"
 
Last edited:

englad

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Posts
2,881
Media
28
Likes
7,905
Points
468
Location
Germany
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male

dandelion

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Posts
13,297
Media
21
Likes
2,705
Points
358
Location
UK
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Englad, I dont think anyone quite knows what to say to that.

Perados, not being or speaking german I still dont know what heidewitzka herr kapitän means or what the song is about. Listening to it didnt leave me much the wiser.

I am also curious what people in Germany think about the nazi period now.

The point of the scene in 'cabaret' is that the heroes of the film, an english gay guy, an american lass who likes to party and a German bisexual aristocrat are merrily having fun together (yes) and are out in the country when they come across this charming picnic or beer garden in a pretty village, all very nice and harmless. And then the hitler youth start singing, and then everyone joins in. Our heroes quietly leave. Its the change of something glorious into something ugly.

The clip of the song with the puppets has Thatcherite conservative politicians singing , with the heroes played by a couple of labour politicians. The old man from the original version who is the only person who does not join in with the singing is possibly meant to be a war veteran who has seen how this is all going to end. He is played by a puppet of Ted Heath, former conservative prime minister of an earlier generation who brought Britain into the EU. Incidentally, himself a british officer in WW2.

It was a stunningly apt portrayal of the conservative party. but I think the 'spitting image' TV program from which it comes was made during the period Britains had a conservative government of these people. In that sense the clip did not accurately portray Britain because the country was quite divided betwen those who supported the tories and those who opposed them, but with the tories broadly having more support.

Seeing the clip again now once again draws the comparison between the Nazi and conservative 'England, England above all'. This fanatical part of the conservative party is still there, How's germany doing? I dont think the tories were into overt discrimination against Jews, but they certainly were persecuting and locking up gay men. This is only 20 years ago. Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.

So what was that about banning certain songs? Is that the first step towards forgetting them and what they meant? I cant believe the conservative are so keen to do it all over again. Just look out there at the bloodbath beginning in europe.

Hey found a German version. or maybe, because i cant tell what the lyrics say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afTDukqqw7M&feature=related
 
Last edited:

Perados

Superior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Posts
11,002
Media
9
Likes
2,505
Points
333
Location
Germany
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Englad, I dont think anyone quite knows what to say to that.

Perados, not being or speaking german I still dont know what heidewitzka herr kapitän means or what the song is about. Listening to it didnt leave me much the wiser.

I am also curious what people in Germany think about the nazi period now.

The point of the scene in 'cabaret' is that the heroes of the film, an english gay guy, an american lass who likes to party and a German bisexual aristocrat are merrily having fun together (yes) and are out in the country when they come across this charming picnic or beer garden in a pretty village, all very nice and harmless. And then the hitler youth start singing, and then everyone joins in. Our heroes quietly leave. Its the change of something glorious into something ugly.

The clip of the song with the puppets has Thatcherite conservative politicians singing , with the heroes played by a couple of labour politicians. The old man from the original version who is the only person who does not join in with the singing is possibly meant to be a war veteran who has seen how this is all going to end. He is played by a puppet of Ted Heath, former conservative prime minister of an earlier generation who brought Britain into the EU. Incidentally, himself a british officer in WW2.

It was a stunningly apt portrayal of the conservative party. but I think the 'spitting image' TV program from which it comes was made during the period Britains had a conservative government of these people. In that sense the clip did not accurately portray Britain because the country was quite divided betwen those who supported the tories and those who opposed them, but with the tories broadly having more support.

Seeing the clip again now once again draws the comparison between the Nazi and conservative 'England, England above all'. This fanatical part of the conservative party is still there, How's germany doing? I dont think the tories were into overt discrimination against Jews, but they certainly were persecuting and locking up gay men. This is only 20 years ago. Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.

So what was that about banning certain songs? Is that the first step towards forgetting them and what they meant? I cant believe the conservative are so keen to do it all over again. Just look out there at the bloodbath beginning in europe.

Hey found a German version. or maybe, because i cant tell what the lyrics say. Der morgige Tag ist mein! - YouTube

Now does the clip makes more sense...
But the lyric was quite clear, no need to hear it in german.
About heidewitzka herr kapitän... The lyric isnt importent, its a fun song for carneval, about the captain of a ship... The funny thing is just, that the usa used it as the german anthem.


No, to banne a song doesnt mean to forget for what it stands for.
Not only some songs are forbidden, also the "hakenkreuzt" (i know you name it different, something like "relativ"), the "hitler gruß" (hand straight in the air), to shout sieg heil... Even some combinations on your "nummernschild" (car id?) are forbidden, like 88 or SS...
And not to forget why its all banned, for 7th grade till 10th grade, in history and german lessons are nearly only about the nazi era...
Also all relevant political parties wount akzept anything near the nazis. Same for the german media and press... Cause of this, we dont have any party more right then merkels party. - expect of one federall country in east germany. The NPD got 7%, but it doesnt looks like they will make it next time.
But germany has a very difuse relation to its past... The first time germany really starts to talk about whats happened at the nazi era was in 1968. The youth started to ask their parents... And what the youth found out about their parents was shocking. So i would say, at least till the last 68er dies, we are prepared of making the same mistake again...
But i guess even the now growing germans wount start to think about a glory germany... They arent used to think so, we dont have any big national symbles out of the past...
For example, this year its the 300. birthday of friedrich II. It was a huge diskussion if its okay to celebrate his birthday or even to name him the greate... Cause he did a lots of wars and also hitler used him as national ikone.
As soon as someone / something could become a national symble, we start to searche for bad things, why it cant fit.


Edit
An other good example why we wount forget WW2 is: a FAQ of foreighn visitors is, why are so many buildings so ugly? - cause we needed flats after WW2, buildings had to be build fast and cheape, the look wasnt importent... So just to walk thru germany reminds you what happened.

A female politican sayd once, at least the family politic was good doring the nazis... Thats it, she was never been seen
 
Last edited:

Perados

Superior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Posts
11,002
Media
9
Likes
2,505
Points
333
Location
Germany
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
what i have to add is, germans useually dont know about their country and history... I guess thats also a result of WW2. The nazis are just to big as to see anything else.
And just by this, a lot of germans doesnt care mutch about being german... But this is a more new event. In the past ( i would say till the late 1990's) germans were a bit "ashamed" about being german...
But i only can talk about west germany, the past in east germany looks totaly different. Cause of the DDR we got a lots more problems now with "nazis" in east germany
 

dandelion

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Posts
13,297
Media
21
Likes
2,705
Points
358
Location
UK
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
For example, this year its the 300. birthday of friedrich II. It was a huge diskussion if its okay to celebrate his birthday or even to name him the greate...
famously, Boris Johnson, revently re-elected mayor of London is descended from Frederick I of Württemberg. Though I'm not sure that particular prince was great except apparently in size.
 
Last edited:

dandelion

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Posts
13,297
Media
21
Likes
2,705
Points
358
Location
UK
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
what i have to add is, germans useually dont know about their country and history... I guess thats also a result of WW2. The nazis are just to big as to see anything else.
Hmm. But the nazis were the result of the disaster which was WWI, which was the result of the expansionist german empire and a very long history of european wars stretching back thousands of years. The success of the nazis was also due to german competence which allowed Germany to succeed as far as it did. Germanys competence now looks very like germanies competence in 1900.


And just by this, a lot of germans doesnt care mutch about being german... But this is a more new event.
in 1900 I dont know what they felt about being German. I would suspect some werent too happy, rather like the scots in britain now.

But i only can talk about west germany, the past in east germany looks totaly different. Cause of the DDR we got a lots more problems now with "nazis" in east germany
I cant imagine Russian occupation was much fun. My father spent his time as a soldier in Berlin after the war, where he had some office job which involved going to the opera a lot. but already there was a lot of trouble with Russian troops. And that was trouble between allies.

Queen Victoria was very upset at giving away Heligoland, but it was militarily indefencible in the event of war with germany. Which was increasingly likely.
 

englad

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Posts
2,881
Media
28
Likes
7,905
Points
468
Location
Germany
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
what i have to add is, germans useually dont know about their country and history... I guess thats also a result of WW2. The nazis are just to big as to see anything else.
And just by this, a lot of germans doesnt care mutch about being german... But this is a more new event. In the past ( i would say till the late 1990's) germans were a bit "ashamed" about being german...
But i only can talk about west germany, the past in east germany looks totaly different. Cause of the DDR we got a lots more problems now with "nazis" in east germany

Well the factors behind the rising level of neo-nazism in East Germany are myriad. The most important ones seem to revolve around high levels of unemployment and anti-communism. The two Germanies denazified and came to terms with their pasts differently. Also East Germany pinned most of the blame on the Nazis onto West Germany, using the narrow minded view that the Nazis persecuted them therefore they were a fresh version of Germany, the denazification process was more thorough there, some of the older former Nazis got back into the government later, because of their anti-communist credentials. The most blatant example was Kurt Kiesinger chancellor between 1966-9. The GDR used this as propaganda against the FRG to detract away from the fact that it was a dictatorship, which in itself isn't exactly propaganda gold lol.

But you're right that national pride hasn't been a factor in German culture since the end of the second world war. Austria too has the Wiederbetätigungsgesetz but it's not come to terms with its past at all, all the original old nazis and pan-germanicists miraculously rebranded themselves as austrian nationalists, and they've maintained the flimsy Erste Opfer (first victim) defence ever since..
 

englad

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Posts
2,881
Media
28
Likes
7,905
Points
468
Location
Germany
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
Queen Victoria was very upset at giving away Heligoland, but it was militarily indefencible in the event of war with germany. Which was increasingly likely.

Zanzibar, a tropical island with lucrative resources and trade links versus a rocky outcrop a few miles from Germany, somehow don't think she lost that much sleep dandelion
 

Perados

Superior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Posts
11,002
Media
9
Likes
2,505
Points
333
Location
Germany
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
famously, Boris Johnson, revently re-elected mayor of London is descended from Frederick I of Württemberg. Though I'm not sure that particular prince was great except apparently in size.
Not friedrich I von württemberg... Friedrich II king of prussia. Guess you name him frederick magnus... The one who started real WW1. Prussia and britain vs austria russia france and sweden (or norway?) plus war at the north american british/france collonies)
 
Last edited:

Perados

Superior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Posts
11,002
Media
9
Likes
2,505
Points
333
Location
Germany
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Hmm. But the nazis were the result of the disaster which was WWI, which was the result of the expansionist german empire and a very long history of european wars stretching back thousands of years. The success of the nazis was also due to german competence which allowed Germany to succeed as far as it did. Germanys competence now looks very like germanies competence in 1900.
About the "expansation" of the new united german empire, we have a different interpetation. It never really exist, it was more the wrong "show up" of an imperator of a rising nation, and by this misunderstandings...

But your right, how we try to teache isnt the best way. Its to "simple"... But not when its about the reasons, why this could happen. To start with the nazis, is to start with WW1. And the results of versaille (big depression and a weak democracy)... Also we teache a lot about propaganda and how easy it is to not notice propaganda...
But i mean to simple when its about the victims. We only focus on them, how they lived, how they got tortured and killed. - the idea is to let the students feel what they maybe feld.
But we dont talk about the people who did all this, why they did so, what they feld and why they didnt sayd "no".

in 1900 I dont know what they felt about being German. I would suspect some werent too happy, rather like the scots in britain now.
our scots in 1871 was bavaria... But cause of the fast success of the new nation, i doubt that a lot "scots" were left in bavaria...
But we have/had to watch out that east germany doesnt becomes the new german scotland...

I cant imagine Russian occupation was much fun. My father spent his time as a soldier in Berlin after the war, where he had some office job which involved going to the opera a lot. but already there was a lot of trouble with Russian troops. And that was trouble between allies.
the russian troops were a big trouble at the begging, a lot of rubery and rape... But it changed fast, russia needed a productiv and peacefull population...
But to live in a socialistic dictation wasnt funny anyway... The DDR had the largest secret service in the world. Imagen a country with 15 million people, 2 million official secret service members and around 5 million inofficial members, mainly used to observate your own people. Also it was only allowed to visit a few countries and never the whole family together...


Queen Victoria was very upset at giving away Heligoland, but it was militarily indefencible in the event of war with germany. Which was increasingly likely.
For germany it was a good deal, a few years later we lost all collonies :wink: