Not a christian or a royalist, therefore I love my country's (UK) national anthem

dandelion

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sure we are, it wount last for ever being the only one on the list, who doesnt need the support of the CB... sooner or later, germany will need also help, if the rest of the world doesnt make it...
or what do you think?

all named can support their debts just for the middle term... expect of japan. they are allready one step further and in the next 10 years we will see the japaneas economy collapse. also it looks like the UK and USA follow japan on its way down. they also finance their debts by central bank money. - UK and USA wount collapse in the next 10 years, but propably within the next 20 years.
Germany still has a chance to support their debts on the long term. but only if the gov keeps on doing reforms and starts austerity.

Well you are a barrel of laughs today.

if we were to elect Labour we could expect a bailout to be necessary within their term (just as France can expect a bailout under socialist Hollande).
substitute ' any government' for 'labour' and you might have it. The IMF thinks we should be following Labour's policies now.

What we do need is confidence.
No... what we need is less debt. It is very questionable whether even a sudden wave of wholly unreasonable confidence could fix matters now. The solution to a recession is to borrow and spend, but there are limits to how far this can go.

All that happened in 2008 was debts which bankrupted the world banking system were taken on by governments which also could not afford them. This was the right thing to do, because the alternative was total collapse right then. We have had three more good years and are still working on it. The question remains whether there is any possible scenario which allows the problem to be resolved without total default.

The ECB has produced 1trillion euros of QE. Japan $700billion. US, cant find a figure, but $2 trillion, UK £300bn. Anyone have a figure on how much money has been lost as a consequence of the 2008 bank crash? Add a zero? two zeros? three zeros? What is the next unit up meaning 1000 trillion? Irrespective, the ECB needs to create another trillion of QE and start injecting it in sovereign (and very probably other) debt. I dont think the solution is for Germany to increase its debt, because it simply cannot finance the world and because essentially the problem is the total amount of everyone's debt. transferring it from one to another doesnt make it go away. Something is needed which makes it go away.

What has to happen is a paper transfer of assets to cancel out the debts of those who have debts with those who have assets. I say paper, because most assets are only valuable if they can be sold, and obviously they cannot. Which does bring us back to taxing the rich, who are the ones who must take a hit. But the mechanism for this still looks to me to be, print money.
 

Ryan10

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It's ridiculous that Britain still has a monarchy, we're in 2012 not 1412, divine rule shouldn't exsist anymore.

As for the National anthem, it should be removed, we don't need a national anthem. Britian is a diverse country, let's celebrate that by becoming the first nation in the world without a national anthem.
 
S

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It's ridiculous that Britain still has a monarchy, we're in 2012 not 1412, divine rule shouldn't exsist anymore.

As for the National anthem, it should be removed, we don't need a national anthem. Britian is a diverse country, let's celebrate that by becoming the first nation in the world without a national anthem.
Divine rule?? I think you need to update your references (by about 300 yrs) You do realize we have a CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCHY which isn't at all at odds with being a modern country and as for the 'diverse' bit,what does that MEAN ?? I find it hilarious that people throw around such words (along with 'embrace') without the faintest idea what these words mean.
 

Perados

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Well you are a barrel of laughs today.
no, not really... and its not fair to cut the last part of the statement... :wink:
Germany still has a chance to support their debts on the long term. but only if the gov keeps on doing reforms and starts austerity... - but and thats the problem, germany only will make it, if a big part of the world ecomomy will still grow. should everyone collapse, germany will also
sure germany has the chance to survive this crisis without a default. But thats only cause of germanys huge export overlap (btw today germany had to pay 0.007% got 2 year bonds). without it, germany would be in the same mess as UK or USA, with a big budged defizit, more and more finanzed by the central bank and more then 100% debts/gdp.
France Britain or the USA could handle the crisis also, if they would start real austerity and reform (or in case of usa just austerity). - But it looks like britain wount do so. As i heared is cameron already planing a new debt financed "growth program"... Thats the opposit pf austerity and reforms. It will lead you into a simillar position as japan is right now.
 
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Jason

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It's ridiculous that Britain still has a monarchy, we're in 2012 not 1412, divine rule shouldn't exsist anymore.

As for the National anthem, it should be removed, we don't need a national anthem. Britian is a diverse country, let's celebrate that by becoming the first nation in the world without a national anthem.

The divine right of kings is long gone in the British monarchy - in England Charles I was the last to assert it, and we cut off his head!

The UK anthem is indeed that of a constitutional monarchy, where the monarch rules with consent. The actual words of the anthem are those used to describe the coronation of Solomon as monarch of the united monarchy of Israel, a monarch proclaimed by king, priest and prophet representing the people of Israel. This is no accident - it is stressing the role of the monarch as embodying the will of the people and as the figure-head for the nation.

Where movement is needed is that England needs an anthem, something comparable to the Welsh Land of My Fathers.
 

Ryan10

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Divine rule?? I think you need to update your references (by about 300 yrs) You do realize we have a CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCHY which isn't at all at odds with being a modern country

Every law gets passed (or rejected) by the Queen, she's the head of state.

and as for the 'diverse' bit,what does that MEAN ?? I find it hilarious that people throw around such words (along with 'embrace') without the faintest idea what these words mean

Britain is full of different cultures, don't you think it's wrong to have one national anthem? We aren't living in the 1960's anymore.
 

Jason

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The Queen consents to new laws. It is old fashioned language for the final check that the various parliamentary processes have been correctly observed.

A national anthem is the tune which symbolises a nation - the point is that there is one. The UK as a sovereign state needs a single anthem. The four home nations of the UK may well need their own anthem - Wales has one and Scotland in effect uses one, but neither England nor NI have an anthem. NI is complex - maybe best left alone - but the case for an English anthem is strong.

Some UK counties have a song or tune associated with them, with varying degrees of formality.
 
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S

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Every law gets passed (or rejected) by the Queen, she's the head of state.



Britain is full of different cultures, don't you think it's wrong to have one national anthem? We aren't living in the 1960's anymore.
So what, these different minorities are incapable of being loyal to the Crown and the National Anthem?? I think that is both wrong and patronizing.
I think you'll find that most immigrants to the UK have a problem with neither,quite the reverse in fact and as they make up barely 6% of the population,it would be wrong to allow a minority within a minority to determine what the rest of the nation is clearly proud of being part of.
Whatever you might think there are a great many non white Britons who support the Monarchy and the National Anthem otherwise they wouldn't be living and being a part of the UK !!!
Lets get over this silly white middle class angst about blacks/Asians being permentely offended by everything.
 

eurotop40

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A national anthem is the tune which symbolises a nation - the point is that there is one. The UK as a sovereign state needs a single anthem. The four home nations of the UK may well need their own anthem - Wales has one and Scotland in effect uses one, but neither England nor NI have an anthem. NI is complex - maybe best left alone - but the case for an English anthem is strong.

Some UK counties have a song or tune associated with them, with varying degrees of formality.

Deutsche Kaiser Hymne - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deEFNbWQKtQ

surprise, surprise!
 
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Jason

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Great YouTube clip!

Yes the UK anthem is a German tune in origin - as are many tunes we in Britain think of as English, including many of our best-loved hymn tunes. It has history. It is now given status of various sorts in just about all the Commonwealth nations. Even the USA sings a version of it! It is very widely recognised. It ticks all the boxes for a national anthem.

Maybe we need to look at a more spirited arrangement (the Deutsche Kaiser Hymn version does offer this) - and even to play it a bit faster! We do need an English anthem (I'm guessing Jerusalem) - and songs help regional identity. Maybe London could make more use of London Pride.
 
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eurotop40

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Perados

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meanwhile, the austrians have not only the € but also a new emperor (this is really a show of austrian tv i happened to watch a couple of times):

wir sind kaiser - hymne - youtube

and how the new emperor is going to conquer hungary again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkxbicg0kuk&feature=related


i love that show

and great idea, to attack hungary from east, not west... HURRAY to the emperor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH8FKADOE0I&feature=related
funny sounds the anthem of prussia... the lyric is way to peasfull for the prussian history...
the main part is: Im a prussian, i want to be a prussian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TEGPelS3Ac&feature=related
this sounds more like prussia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2CgEaBIYZ8&feature=related
this remindes me a bit to star wars




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8YhZ599fsU&feature=related
AND THE ANTHEM WITH THE BEST LYROC - NON (by the way, also the oldest anthem in the world)
 
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Victoria

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If anything it's a historical document / snapshot of the times it was written in best taken with a pinch of salt!

Not relevant today really as most in the uk aren't staunch royalists or devout church goers or sycophantic nationalists but it is part of a nations heritage ..so perhaps unfair to be totally dismissive of it .