Not again!

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Drifterwood, Dec 6, 2007.

  1. Drifterwood

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  2. dong20

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  3. Drifterwood

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    Let's change the mantra.

    Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people.

    Now which part of the equation needs to be removed to stop people being killed?

    Edit

    I just read this

    "Since the killing of John Kennedy in 1963, more Americans have died by American gunfire than perished on foreign battlefields in the whole of the 20th century."

    From this article After the Virginia Tech massacre | America's tragedy | Economist.com

    Has my logic gone all wrong, or is this just madness?
     
  4. Not_Punny

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    Well, to be literal... you either take out the guns, or you take out the people... and if you want to play both sides of the fence, you use the guns to take out the people... :eek::rolleyes:

    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    There are responsible gun owners and irresponsible gun owners.

    Just like it's illegal to practice medicine without a lot of schooling, I think it ought to be illegal to own firearms without a truly rigorous training program that would help to weed out the mentally incompetents.

    Both guns and medicine can kill without the proper training/mindset.
     
  5. Not_Punny

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    Another alternative would be to invent a rather large magnet, oh, about the size of the moon but considerably closer to Earth, and use it to magnetically collect every damned gun, cannon and missile on the planet.

    No more weapons, no more wars?

    I'm dreaming. (No, there wasn't anything in my coffee this AM!)

    Ignore this post -- I'm just ranting.
     
  6. dong20

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    Some smart ass would make a killing (partial pun) selling plastic guns.:smile:

    It's in the nature of a great many people to be mean to each other, I don't think that's hard to prove, pick up a paper or turn on the news. Now, giving them the tools to make it easier for them just because it says so in the constitution seems irrational, to say the least. It seems that way to me anyway. I may be naive but it seems to me that one's right to stay alive outweighs another's right to bear arms.

    I can already hear the arguments against that that are coming.
     
  7. Ethyl

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    This is what he used to pick off people in the crowd below. He chose his weapon well. I would be interested to know how he acquired it. And why did he want to be famous when he wouldn't be around to enjoy it?
     
  8. SteveHd

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    A .30cal semi-automatic carbine is quite legal in USA.
     
  9. Not_Punny

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    OMG -- what a mean looking gun. How the hell does someone sneak a substantial rifle into a mall?

    - - - - - - - -

    ALas, Dong20, maybe mind control is the only answer. :eek::eek::eek:
    I, of course, would be exempt, as I have never possessed such a thing.
     
  10. SteveHd

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    Carbine is the notable word. They're generally shorter and lighter than "standard" rifles.
     
  11. Ethyl

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    The article mentions he suffered from depression. I wondered if he bought it without a background check performed or if he simply swiped it from a friend/relative's rack or cabinet.
     
  12. B_Monster

    B_Monster New Member

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    the news said he got the gun
    from his stepfather, whether thats true or speculation, I dont know.
     
  13. dong20

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    A mind, or control? The first doubtful, the other...intriguing.
     
  14. Not_Punny

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    LOL -- you're too clever for your own good! :biggrin1::wink:
     
  15. playainda336

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    Not to sound ignorant, but does this kind of stuff happen in other countries?
     
  16. dong20

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    Yes. Though rather less often.
     
  17. HazelGod

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    Your logic has gone all wrong. Inflammatory statistical comparisons aren't madness...just manipulation of those who are easily led.

    The instruments aren't the problem...and focusing on them won't solve anything. This type of short-sighted, fix it with a band-aid approach to the issues is counterproductive.

    A quick look at the US Bureau of Justice Statistics shows the average number of firearms-related homicides to be around 10-12 thousand per annum for the last 30 years. As a comparative, the Dept. of Transportation shows 41-43 thousand motor vehicle fatalities every year.

    Expensive, gasoline guzzling, carbon monoxide spewing hunks of speeding metal kill more people here every year than firearms. Lots more. 400% more. Yet nobody talks about banning automobiles...because that would just be stupid, right? It's no stupider than talking about banning firearms for the sake of possibly reducing the number of deaths attributed to them.

    You can't go foisting restrictions onto a society of 300+ million individuals because of the plight of any statistically insignificant number of people. Especially when these restrictions have little chance of effecting the changes they were misguidedly designed to bring about. Again, I'm looking at the Dept. of Justice for this:

    According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
    • a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
    • a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
    • family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%
    Wow...the overwhelming majority of people who use guns to commit crimes obtained their weapons in an illegal manner. Who would have guessed? :rolleyes:

    Yes, the Omaha incident and the VT incident were awful...but they're in no way indicative of any endemic gun violence problem, media sensationalization aside. There are underlying issues that drive these people to commit such assaults, and restricting legal ownership of firearms by responsible citizens does nothing to address them. Desperate people will commit acts of desperation using whatever means are available...I can think of another nation whose name begins with "I" and ends with "Q" where private ownership of guns is banned and desperate people there tend to blow themselves up in crowded areas. You think a firearm wrought horrific damage in a mall or classroom? Imagine what a bomb could have done.

    I understand the need to feel like you're "doing something" tangible to address the ills we witness in our society...and I admire that people truly care about making ours a better one to live in. But please, think these things through. Examine the facts and apply your own reasoning. Don't let yourself be led by inflammatory rhetoric.
     
  18. No_Strings

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    But guns were specifically designed to cause harm to creatures which the atmosphere of this planet can support. (Without delving into pedantics.)
     
  19. frizzle

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    Pretty simple ban the use of guns. Stupid idea in the first place.
     
  20. B_Monster

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    Comparing vehicle accidents to gun murders is nonsense, People in cars arent killing other drivers with assault weapons
     
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