Not helping themselves.

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jerkin4-10: lurker...i would never presume to speak from an english point of view...having never lived there...its just not an intelligent thing to do...but do remember this my friend..
if we wouldnt have gotten involved in WW1 and WW2 certainly...you guys would be speaking german right now....and thats a fact...remember that when your speaking of americans...and your critisism of us...

how soon they forget...

 

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Inwood: It really would be nice if people read other posts more carefully. Lurker was not critizing americans being at their best when things are at their worst. He was pointing out that when things were worse then most would have believed during WWII the British held up pretty well too. That we are not the only ones who seem to thrive despite adversity.

As to our help...the British were pretty well taking care of their end of the war before we ever fired a shot. Once Hitler could not get England to surrender from the Blitz or the submarine threat it became only a matter of time before he would be defeated regardless of whether we came into the fight or not.

Churchill sets forth why pretty clearly in his series of books on WWII while he was PM. But don't just listen to him. Read Albert Speer's Autobiography. He pretty much says the same thing. Germany was over-commited and just could not produce the fighting material it needed (Speer should know since he was in charge of all of Germany's war production). And once the British started bombing Germany the situation only became more dire. So when Germany attacked Russia it was just the icing on the cake for Britian.

Yes the US supplied a lot of material to Britian but the British were doing the fighting. Those two years that they fought alone gave us breathing room to get ready. And we still managed to get caught with our pants down.

How soon some of us forget...or perhaps just never wanted to know.

 

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jerkin4-10: and thats why london was in ruins?...because the english had things so well in hand?...your dreaming...i had relatives fight that war in england...and a couple die...of course churchill is going to say...'nice of you chaps to come and help, but we had the matter well in hand' AFTER the fact... i did read the damn post...if he was just making a comment about the blitzkrieg...there was no need to bring my comment into it...but by bringing my comment into it...he was making a simile...or comparason, to the unwitted...when my post was a simple comment about the spirit of americans...now you look at the comments and re-evaluate...

 

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Inwood: When things are at their worst...the British are at their best...something a non-Englishman could never grasp...

A lot of people do rather extraordinary things under trying times. It's not just an American trait. That's what he was pointing out. Your post, however inadvertent, seems to imply only Americans have that ability.

Read the books. London in ruins is not England defeated. It was the stupidity of the Nazi's going after London that sealed their air weapon being broken by the British. And Churchill gives great due to the help the US gave to them. He looked forward to us joining knowing that the industrial might of the US was something that Germany couldn't hope to match. He just doesn't let us forget they were fighting alone for two years before we got pulled into it. It's not like we volunteered to fight.

I also had relatives there. My mother had to sit through bombs falling outside her school when she was a child living in London. My uncles fought in Europe and in the Pacific. As a family we were lucky despite being in D-Day all the way into Germany and also on Iwo Jima none of my uncles died or were even injured. Sorry about your relatives. Unfortunately a lot of people died at that time.

 

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jerkin4-10: yep was a tragedy...all of that was started by a sweet talking paper hanger from munich...but my comment...if you will look at the thread...was about americans dealing with a uniquely american problem...and was not mean to belittle the rest of the world...and if someone takes offense at that...in a basically american chatroom...im sorry...some of my relatives hail from that part of the world..as a matter of fact...my last name is welsh slang for bastard child of henry the 8th...ill let you figure it out...kind of a double edge thing...got royal blood....but through one of his many fucking raids through whales...go figure...but i didnt get the purple birthmark on my butt... :-[

 

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longtimelurker: Thanks Inwood,

Yes - that was basically my point. There is a fine line between patriotism and just being plain insulting to other nationalities and I personally felt that that comment crossed that boundary. Granted, you may not have meant it to sound like that, but that is how it came across.

And as for this being a basically American chatroom, I always personally felt that it was an international chatroom for the hung. Granted according to Ahbjit's poll about 66% of us are American, but that does leave 34% that aren't.

 

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jerkin4-10: In my school...they taught us that is the majority...that should be clear...

 

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longtimelurker: [quote author=jerkin4-10 link=board=99;num=1067118189;start=20#26 date=10/30/03 at 19:55:26]In my school...they taught us that is the majority...that should be clear...[/quote]

Yes, and I'm not arguing that it isn't a majority. 2/3's of a whole does not make 'basically a whole', though. The way you state it sounds more like it's 95%/5% or that it is catered for Americans with others tolerated.

There - now that's cleared up can we please get back to the original topic???

 

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jerkin4-10: cleared up?...youve just pissed me off again...a majority IS a majority whether it be by one vote...and it is a majority...THAT clears it up...

 

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SpeedoGuy: [quote author=Inwood link=board=99;num=1067118189;start=20#23 date=10/29/03 at 21:06:06].

Read the books. London in ruins is not England defeated. It was the stupidity of the Nazi's going after London that sealed their air weapon being broken by the British.

[/quote]

Exactly! Well said. Goering was an amateur political buffoon going up against the likes of professionals like Dowding. Churchill was exactly right when he said it would be Britain's finest hour. It was and the free world owes more than little debt to the perseverence of the British and the skill of all branches of their military during the particularly dark days of 1939, 1940 and 1941.

There is honor enough to spare for the contributions of all the Allies in the struggles against the Kaiser, Fuehrer and Emperor. I'm proud of the American contribution to that effort, especially the come-from-behind triumph in the Pacific naval war. That said, I confess I'm embarrased by the notable American habit of tooting our own horn as if we were the sole reason for ultimate victory. Such an attitude dishonors other contributors and is just too simplistic for my taste.

SG

 

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7x6andchg: jerkin-

66% is a majority....but one can not IGNORE the minority...not even in OUR government, which has things in it that make it easy to do so....less so in a parliamentary system, which is what our British friends are used to.

The idea of banding together when trouble strikes is hardly an American trait...it's a human trait.

7x6&C

 

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Inwood: Actually...it's a trait shared by a fair number of fauna other then humans and possibly some flora.

 

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jerkin4-10: well buckwheat...everyone has different tastes my friend...thats our strength...and it pisses me off to no end that America bashing is en vogue...even by other americans...there a reason why my and every other americans ancestors left europe, asia, the middle east etc...and it wasnt because of the free land...and ill not allow their memories to be belittled or made lite of...so if you want to end this thread...or comment about it...do so without bashing...because i have lots more commentary...and 7X6...no-one is IGNORING the minority...but it is what it is...the person with the least votes never gets the say...

 

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7x6andchg: Well....

in a more-than-two party system the plurality can get its proverbial ass whomped by a coalition...all of which are minorities...

The internal America bashing is only in vogue because our Constitution allows it...to decry it is to decry the freedom of expression allowed therein. You may disagree with it - but it will happen regardless....

 

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jerkin4-10: as will my commentary my friend...just because its legal...and constitutionally protected doesnt make it right...and thats my point...when does 'right' come into play here...its like a point i made to some co-workers a while back...being in the mortgage industry, there is a lot of abuse of people that have bad credit...for what ever reason...too many fees, too many points...too high of a rate...but the people gladly pay..because they are at the mercy of unscrupulous [not all of us, but alot] mortgage professionals...thinking that because they have bad to medium credit, makes them without choices...not true...but with the rap these snakes put on the helpless they think they have no other option...enough of a lead in...my office mate was bragging about how he was 'tearing someones head off' on a deal...and asked me what i thought...my comment to him was...'just because you can...doesnt mean you should'...he thought for a second...then somewhat agreed...a few minutes later i was in my bosses office...and he was telling me the same story about a customer of his...i just sat silently...well here comes my office mate in the office...blurting out this really unfair rate and profit he was making off this older couple...without seeing me...then he looked up and saw me sitting there...had a funny look on his face...i just got up...went to the door...closed and locked it...turned to the 3 guys in the room and said...'ya know...with my size and skills...i could beat the fuck out of all of the people in this room...and no-one could get in here...and there would be very little you could do about it...if i decided to'....'but you know what...i dont want to do that...i wouldnt do that...because i wouldnt want someone doing that to me'...turned around, opened the door and walked out...1 of the guys adjusted his deal to a more reasonable fee...the other did not...but they heard me...just because you CAN do something...doesnt make it right...

 

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7x6andchg: No, you're right - it doesn't make it right....

No more than being in the majority makes what you think right....it just makes it powerful...the key to true power, I believe, is what you exhibited there...knowing when to use it.

7x6&C

 

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jerkin4-10: thank you...

 

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7x6andchg: No problem <shakes hand>

 

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SpeedoGuy: [quote author=jerkin4-10 link=board=99;num=1067118189;start=20#34 date=10/31/03 at 19:53:07]

...'ya know...with my size and skills...i could beat the fuck out of all of the people in this room...and no-one could get in here...and there would be very little you could do about it...

...1 of the guys adjusted his deal to a more reasonable fee...the other did not...but they heard me...just because you CAN do something...doesnt make it right...

[/quote]

jerkin:

Sounds like you believe an implied threat of physical violence is at least as effective a method of persuasion as appealing to other people's sense of ethics. True?

SG

 

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jerkin4-10: SG...i know where you are going...i see the feeble attempt of disguising the beartrap under the leaves...
IF you will be fair and read the WHOLE story...and quote all of the pertinent info...just to be fair...then you will see...my initial commentary was totally non-threatening...and thought-provoking...but ONLY when the guy CLEARLY demonstrated the lack of understanding and or caring...did i switch gears and give a different analagy...one that was CLEARLY understood...by one of them at least...so my attempt to make a point was definately understood and made the guy think...i mean...that IS the purpose of the exersize isnt it?...to pursuade?...was i going to hit the guy...absolutely not...did he think i was going to hit him...absolutely not...what i did...was come at him from another angle and make him THINK...so...you think up another angle you can approach me...and make me step into your stupid beartrap...