Not The Ideal

David Lucaya

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I would like to preface this post by saying:
1. I don't think there's anything wrong with having preferences or "a type".
2. I am not complaining about what I'm about to ask.
3. I am not seeking to offend any particular groups of people.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way.
There's an issue - probably not the best term to use but I'm sure you will know what I mean - that I've been aware for a while now but kind of ignored ever since I've become active within the lgbt community which is that so many guys go "no black guys" especially on the apps like grindr and my theory is if so many people have it in their bio, a similar ratio probably are thinking it in their heads.
Of course there is also the "I only like black guys" group as well so it's not something I dwell on but in my personal experience they are far outnumbered by the previously mentioned group.
So I just say all of this to ask is it my imagination or are black guys kind of marginalized within the lgbt community.
 
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notN2pussy

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Gosh, I see more not into Asian on posts/ profiles. Black men I feel may be pressured to feel like they are only wanted if they have BBC , hope I am wrong. I have met several and most really over estimated their size, I think because they felt maybe it got them noticed. Sad what we do do others
 
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AMTZ410213

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englad

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I don't think you should worry about who you offend. I've seen so much of the "I like what I like, don't challenge me, I don't want to analyse it". I also don't think this is in your head.

I think the racial exclusionists and fetishists are both extremely problematic. "No black guys" carries an impression that the profile user is implying "they're all the same", which is racist. The "only black guys" group is also racist, because it's blatant racial fetishising and usually entrenched in stereotypes.
 

David Lucaya

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Gosh, I see more not into Asian on posts/ profiles. Black men I feel may be pressured to feel like they are only wanted if they have BBC , hope I am wrong. I have met several and most really over estimated their size, I think because they felt maybe it got them noticed. Sad what we do do others
as far as this goes I think this is true I know that I am not monstrous and never try to perpetuate that but many black men do feel this pressure.
Also I will say I've noticed it depends where I am. In Miami my grindr explodes. In Pittsburgh I found it easy to hookup too. so I guess there are population factors involved maybe
 
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David Lucaya

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I don't think you should worry about who you offend. I've seen so much of the "I like what I like, don't challenge me, I don't want to analyse it". I also don't think this is in your head.

I think the racial exclusionists and fetishists are both extremely problematic. "No black guys" carries an impression that the profile user is implying "they're all the same", which is racist. The "only black guys" group is also racist, because it's blatant racial fetishising and usually entrenched in stereotypes.
Thats my problem with it as well, the connotation behind it all that insists that I am like every other guy who happens to have dark skin. And the idea that me being black is something negative is a ridiculous also.
I did not even want to begin the fetishism conversation because that's a topic of its own importance lol.
 
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Novacouple999

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Maybe people have a preference. What is wrong with that? I am one of those guys that do not prefer black guys, or, dark skinned guys in general. I also do not prefer twinks, overweight, or flamboyant guys. What is the problem? You can't force people to be attracted. There are plenty whom don't like me. I'm pretty sure that's the great thing about dating/hook up apps. There are a ton of options.
 
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David Lucaya

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Maybe people have a preference. What is wrong with that? I am one of those guys that do not prefer black guys, or, dark skinned guys in general. I also do not prefer twinks, overweight, or flamboyant guys. What is the problem? You can't force people to be attracted. There are plenty whom don't like me. I'm pretty sure that's the great thing about dating/hook up apps. There are a ton of options.
I didn't say having a preference is a problem at all I even clearly stated that it's not an issue. this not a woe is me post, I just wanted to know if my observation has been noted by others
 

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Maybe people have a preference. What is wrong with that? I am one of those guys that do not prefer black guys, or, dark skinned guys in general. I also do not prefer twinks, overweight, or flamboyant guys. What is the problem? You can't force people to be attracted. There are plenty whom don't like me. I'm pretty sure that's the great thing about dating/hook up apps. There are a ton of options.
I agree that having a preference is not the problem. I think this thread was intended to discuss the unintended hurtful consequences of including phrases like “no black guys” on a dating profile.
 

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as far as this goes I think this is true I know that I am not monstrous and never try to perpetuate that but many black men do feel this pressure.
Also I will say I've noticed it depends where I am. In Miami my grindr explodes. In Pittsburgh I found it easy to hookup too. so I guess there are population factors involved maybe
Maybe!
 

Novacouple999

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I didn't say having a preference is a problem at all I even clearly stated that it's not an issue. this not a woe is me post, I just wanted to know if my observation has been noted by others
I agree that having a preference is not the problem. I think this thread was intended to discuss the unintended hurtful consequences of including phrases like “no black guys” on a dating profile.

In my opinion, you may be reading too much into that phrase. Phrases like "No black guys", "BBC only", "sissy only", etc are people advertising their preference in a very short phrase. After all, it's Grindr, dude. If you venture into a more serious dating platform, you will not see that kind of thing very often, if at all.
 

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So I just say all of this to ask is it my imagination or are black guys kind of marginalized within the lgbt community.

It's not even remotely your imagination. Feel free to take this with a grain of salt, because I'm white, and therefore your experiences and knowledge of racism are far deeper and more personal than mine. In general, the (mainstream) gay male community mirrors (mainstream) Western society: cis, male, conventionally masculine, white, good looking, young, wealthy people are held up as the ideal. Everyone else within our community is either discriminated against ("No fats, no fems, no Asians"), or exoticized ("Looking for BBC").

Or you could look at Toronto Pride, for example. The white part of the community freaked the fuck out when BLM (which in Toronto was founded and run by queer women) interrupted the parade to demand that cops not march in uniform, for tolerably obvious reasons. Quite a lot of my friends of colour were horrified to find that the racism they knew was there was just so...openly bandied about all of a sudden. (The most frequent quote from white people? "They took over our parade." I mean, fuck.) I was personally horrified to find out how many friends were 100% on board with that statement. I should say former friends, to be more accurate.

And literally this past week in Edmonton, the board of Pride literally cancelled Pride this year because Indigenous activists and activists of colour asked for the police not to march armed and in uniform. Three guesses as to how many people on the Edmonton board are white, and the first two don't count.

So yeah. You're not imagining things.
 

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In my opinion, you may be reading too much into that phrase. Phrases like "No black guys", "BBC only", "sissy only", etc are people advertising their preference in a very short phrase. After all, it's Grindr, dude. If you venture into a more serious dating platform, you will not see that kind of thing very often, if at all.

First, there are ways to express preferences that aren't mean; second, oh goodness yes it does exist on more serious dating platforms.
 

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In my opinion, you may be reading too much into that phrase. Phrases like "No black guys", "BBC only", "sissy only", etc are people advertising their preference in a very short phrase. After all, it's Grindr, dude. If you venture into a more serious dating platform, you will not see that kind of thing very often, if at all.

I can imagine if you see a phrase like that on a regular basis, you would feel excluded and marginalised. There is no need whatsoever to write something like that on a profile. It's deliberately creating an unnecessarily hostile environment towards men who are already experiencing a lack of privilege on two fronts. It doesn't save anyone's time, it just creates a hostile atmosphere.
 

flooble

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In my opinion, you may be reading too much into that phrase.

I'd like to add, as gently as possible: if you are not a person who is affected by seeing "no black guys" or "looking for BBC" in a profile, it's not your place to tell someone who is affected that they're wrong. Your place is to listen to why it hurts them.
 

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First, there are ways to express preferences that aren't mean; second, oh goodness yes it does exist on more serious dating platforms.
I think the solution here starts with the elimination of the word “no” from profiles and putting the emphasis on the “yes” to what you do want.
 

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This is a good question and thread! Apologies for my long, possibly rambling post.

It is definitely not part of your imagination; I think it’s a societal issue in general. As you’ve mentioned, I think it is more noticeable depending on where you are. I live in metropolitan DC and honestly cannot recall a time where I’ve seen “No Black guys” on someone’s profile, but conversely, I do see the racial fetishists and their “Looking for BBC” and “BBC is a +” lines quite regularly. (Admittedly though, Black guys are my own “preference,” so I’m not actively looking at non-Black guys’ profiles trying to see if I have chance or not based on my race.)

I personally am not active in the LGBTQ community and affairs, so I cannot speak firsthand on the marginalization aspect. However it is definitely something I hear from Black and Latino guys regularly enough to understand that it is a real issue.

As far as apps profile goes, as someone else mentioned, I think stuff geared towards hookups like Grindr, Jack’d, Scruff, etc., should be taken with a grain of salt, but nevertheless does reflect where everyone’s head is at. Generally, you will get one of two types of guys on there: the one who will actively seek out hooking up with as close of a match to his desired type of guy as is possible/available, and one who will get down with almost anyone just because he’s horny.

In terms of hookups, apps, and the like, I also think it requires a bit of reflection on what it is that you are seeking out yourself, and how you fit into the very dynamic you’re describing. For example, if you are actively seeking out non-Black guys, my guess is that you would run into this problem more than you would if you sought out Black guys (refer back to the parenthesis in the first paragraph). Perhaps Black guys may not be your own preference, so you avoid seeking them out for whatever reason. But it is important to note that the reality is that the very reason why you do not seek out Black guys may be the very reason, consciously or otherwise, that non-Black guys also do not seek them out. My take is that you (not you specifically OP, but in people in general) cannot complain or criticize people if you don’t fall into their desired preferences, all while you in turn also avoid that same demographic to which you belong.

In essence, yes, I believe it is a real problem, but the degree to which it impacts and effects you is based on the degree to which you actively try to encounter it.
 

David Lucaya

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This is a good question and thread! Apologies for my long, possibly rambling post.

It is definitely not part of your imagination; I think it’s a societal issue in general. As you’ve mentioned, I think it is more noticeable depending on where you are. I live in metropolitan DC and honestly cannot recall a time where I’ve seen “No Black guys” on someone’s profile, but conversely, I do see the racial fetishists and their “Looking for BBC” and “BBC is a +” lines quite regularly. (Admittedly though, Black guys are my own “preference,” so I’m not actively looking at non-Black guys’ profiles trying to see if I have chance or not based on my race.)

I personally am not active in the LGBTQ community and affairs, so I cannot speak firsthand on the marginalization aspect. However it is definitely something I hear from Black and Latino guys regularly enough to understand that it is a real issue.

As far as apps profile goes, as someone else mentioned, I think stuff geared towards hookups like Grindr, Jack’d, Scruff, etc., should be taken with a grain of salt, but nevertheless does reflect where everyone’s head is at. Generally, you will get one of two types of guys on there: the one who will actively seek out hooking up with as close of a match to his desired type of guy as is possible/available, and one who will get down with almost anyone just because he’s horny.

In terms of hookups, apps, and the like, I also think it requires a bit of reflection on what it is that you are seeking out yourself, and how you fit into the very dynamic you’re describing. For example, if you are actively seeking out non-Black guys, my guess is that you would run into this problem more than you would if you sought out Black guys (refer back to the parenthesis in the first paragraph). Perhaps Black guys may not be your own preference, so you avoid seeking them out for whatever reason. But it is important to note that the reality is that the very reason why you do not seek out Black guys may be the very reason, consciously or otherwise, that non-Black guys also do not seek them out. My take is that you (not you specifically OP, but in people in general) cannot complain or criticize people if you don’t fall into their desired preferences, all while you in turn also avoid that same demographic to which you belong.

In essence, yes, I believe it is a real problem, but the degree to which it impacts and effects you is based on the degree to which you actively try to encounter it.
I agree, I personally don't really look for a particular color of a guy or anything. Some guys are hot and some guys are not in my opinion.
Also the area that i live in has less black people than any other group of people so I guess maybe that is why?
 

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I can imagine if you see a phrase like that on a regular basis, you would feel excluded and marginalised. There is no need whatsoever to write something like that on a profile. It's deliberately creating an unnecessarily hostile environment towards men who are already experiencing a lack of privilege on two fronts. It doesn't save anyone's time, it just creates a hostile atmosphere.

Show me proof that it's deliberate to offend.
 

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Purposely and publicly excluding a given ethnicity is making a choice to be rude and hurtful. That's what 'deliberate' means.

And, again: if you're not a person of colour, defending racist behaviour doesn't make you a devil's advocate, it doesn't make you someone being rational and Just Asking Questions, it doesn't make you the person who "only sees people, not skin colour" (which is racist and problematic in itself, because it does what you are doing here: erases the actual problem).

All it makes you is someone who's defending racism.

Don't be that guy.