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Shelby

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I deal with lots of equipment and think Toshiba's are the best with Dell a close second.

Having said that, I'd still encourage you to spend the token amount necessary to get Consumer Report's opinion.
 

dong20

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I deal with lots of equipment and think Toshiba's are the best with Dell a close second.

Having said that, I'd still encourage you to spend the token amount necessary to get Consumer Report's opinion.

I would also put Toshiba as my first choice. I bought some Tosh units for £400 a while back, they're quite basic as one would expect for that price but quite adequate for day to day office work and so on (60GB/512/wifi etc), the users love 'em so everyones a winner.

My second choice.....maybe HP though I may give IBM another look see.
 

ClaireTalon

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You probably also own an IPod and think that an MP3 player with a flash drive should cost more than $150 dollars, don't you? :rolleyes:

Silly rabbit.

Apple drains its user-base dry with overpriced items marketed very slickly.

Do you also remember the times when Apple/Mac computers in shops had a sheet of paper put somewhere close to them, titled "Software usable with this computer..." and a list of 20 or 30 word processors, spreadsheet editors, database software and service programs? No way of using widely-available mass software. I think Apple still hasn't gotten past the mentality of those times.
 

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... No way of using widely-available mass software. I think Apple still hasn't gotten past the mentality of those times.


Hey, at heart I am a rebel. And I can think of 100 more effective and efficient ways to be a rebel than by owning Apple products.

Having some expensive toy that is limited in its compatability defeats the purpose of having said expensive toy.
 

dickman45885

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HP here...I have had several of them. I got my youngest a dell last year and she has had no trouble with it. I do prefer the HP's. I live on line and it goes everywhere with me...right no I am using an HP zd7140us....bit 17" screen which is nice for watching movies or tv. My daughters got me an adapter to watch tv. I am on the road alot and it is really nice to have everything I need in one bundle. I have a dell, military issue, used only for military stuff. My only gripe with it is...problems caused by military updates etc.
 

WessexEN

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Time to add my hat:
- Here we have 4 acers (Ferraris 3200/3400 plus 2 travelmates I think, one semperon one Turion) - all great comptuers (2 years to 1month in age), the latest had problems with speed, so nicked a gig out of my new laptop.
- 6-7 year old Toshiba. Still running - Ex London Underground (Rescued from a skip!)
2 year old clevo, brought second hand - still running, but cracking up (but its bloody powerful!)
- 5 year old dell Inspiron 4100, still running, no faults, except manmade ones, broken hinge (blame the dogs!), broken DC jack (blame the dogs) and broken LCD latch (Blame the human! :) )
- 1 Samsung laptop and a IPC topnote, both very simliar, IPC went bang in march, CPU hatch melted, case cracked badly, LCD packed up, DVD drive packed up, DC jack failed, smelt lovely (not!). Most was over wear and tear, it had been around the world several times, plus several college trips, so it eventually gave up. The samsung laptop is heading the same way.
- 1 3month old Asus lapotp 3 months old, Processor was hard as hell to find, great runner though. Extremely powerful.
- 1 Apple mac, still going, too many dents.


Basically
- Avoid Dells, unless you like the exploding batteries, which is a feature of many brand new dells*
- Avoid Macbooks, as I last looked at one and disliked the new keyboard and avoid MBPs, they dent easy.
- Avoid cheap no name brands, as they may fail completely (re-above, used and abused IPC laptop).
- Think what you want to use the laptop for.

Personally, I would go with Acer as we have a lot of those here, my sister likes them (even though its the only brand she has ever had), my mother doesn't, but blame my fathers advice, but my fathers does, as he has 2 faultless, excessively traveled Ferraris. Then again, try before you buy, you'd want a laptop that lasts longer than a year (2 years I would say is time to replace a laptop) and see if you are confortable with using it first.

Take notice of the weight and battery life if you are travelling, screensize if you are wanting to travel small, keyboard if you are going to use it to type a lot, screen, screensize, screen resolution and graphics card if you are planning to do a lot of gaming/3d graphics and heat dissapation at full power if its going to burn your nuts off. :)
Also, processors to avoid, Celeron-Ms and Mobile Semperons (These are budget processors, found in lapotps too), good processor for power are Turion X2 and Core Duo/Centrino Core Duo. Oh, get atleast 1GB ram, 512 and a shared graphics card on my mums 1 month old laptop didn't work out too well, it actually was a poor performer.

Happy shopping.
 

BlackCock85

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You probably also own an IPod and think that an MP3 player with a flash drive should cost more than $150 dollars, don't you? :rolleyes:

Silly rabbit.

Apple drains its user-base dry with overpriced items marketed very slickly.

I rather pay the extra few hundred dollars for a nice sexy sleek Apple then a cheap plastic pc with so many different colors all over it. In the end it's all opinion, I don't think I should be bashed for what I want to buy.

Macs are awesome but...they are overpriced. Since the parts are now identical to the ones in a PC laptop they would sell so much more if they were even in price. I got my 17" HP DV8327US with 160GB sata HDD, Nvidia 7600 Geforce2go 256MB video, Intel Core Duo 1.66, 2GB ram for 1100 with a rebate. that incuded firewire, wireless a/b/g, bluetooth, dvd burner with lightscribe you, IR remote even to watch movies! (with built in altec lansing speaker) it is truley awesome - and it came with XP professional...

If I could have gotten a similiarly equipped mac for that I would have.

a word on viruses, the big reason there are so many for windows and so few for mac's are...windows is THE os. Becuase it is soooo prevelant it is the darling of the hax0r community. They love to write viruses for it to prove how unsecure it is. If mac had won the os wars in the 90's it would be MAC OS covered in viruses.

In some people's eyes their overpriced, I think for the nice materials and features they have their price fine. It's just like a car, you could argue a certain car is overpriced but for another person it's fine.

We get it...but, you're not clearing up any misunderstandings you're merely evangalising.:tongue:

And you PC lovers arent? I just wanted to make the point that having a MAC doesnt mean that you won't be able to use anything from anybody else unless they also have a MAC. I've had a mac for 2yrs now and I've never run into a situation where I was like damn if only I had a pc I could be doing this or that.

Do you also remember the times when Apple/Mac computers in shops had a sheet of paper put somewhere close to them, titled "Software usable with this computer..." and a list of 20 or 30 word processors, spreadsheet editors, database software and service programs? No way of using widely-available mass software. I think Apple still hasn't gotten past the mentality of those times.

Things have changed, just because they don't want to whore out theirselves like microsoft doesnt mean that there's something wrong with them. For every PC program out there, there's a MAc equivelant that does the same thing if not better and easier.

Hey, at heart I am a rebel. And I can think of 100 more effective and efficient ways to be a rebel than by owning Apple products.

Having some expensive toy that is limited in its compatability defeats the purpose of having said expensive toy.

My owning an Apple product has nothing to do with being a rebel. I actually got this laptop as part of my school's program and at the time I got it I absolutely hated MACS and as time went on I realised how amazing and user friendly this system is and have never looked back. I have no campatability issues at all, not one.


In the end everybody has their preferances. It's like telling a gay guy that girls are better for this reason and this reason. Its not going to make sense, I was just putting the idea out there that perhaps this person may consider a MAC before just shutting them out. I wasn't expecting everybody to turn on me and basically tell me macs suck and that I'm some poser for having one. Sorry for having an opinion I'll just keep my opinions to myself since nobody wants to give them a chance. So yea PC's are amazing and I'm just going to go sit in the corner now with my MAC that is incompatible with the rest of the world.:rolleyes:
 

dong20

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On evangelising:

And you PC lovers arent? I just wanted to make the point that having a MAC doesnt mean that you won't be able to use anything from anybody else unless they also have a MAC. I've had a mac for 2yrs now and I've never run into a situation where I was like damn if only I had a pc I could be doing this or that.

dong20 said:
I've nothing against MACs other than cost. Besides the fact they look funky they no longer do anything any better than Wintel machine can and at lower cost so I don't see what the fuss is about. Moving to the Intel platform was a smart move for Apple (I hope)

......

I don't think anyone is 'MAC Bashing', I certainly didn't mean to. All I said, or at least meant to say was I don't see the fuss. I have used, managed and repaired PCs and MACs for ten years or more and I prefer PCs in almost all aspects other than visual appeal.

Granted there was a time when DTP etc was firmly entrenched on the MAC for good reason but, and I'm trying to be objective I don't believe that is the case anymore. If it were then MACs would be more mainstream and DTP software releases for MAC would precede those for Wintel not the other way around.

Now, tell me, where did I say PC=Good and MAC=Bad or that they are incomptible with PCs. They're not, it's nearer the reverse actually. As far as I can see I'm only saying:
  1. The Price/Performance ratio for MACs is higher than PCs,
  2. repairs can and often are more expensive because,
  3. spares are expensive,
  4. some software is not as widely available or as current,
  5. claims that they are 'better' for certain tasks or just 'better' simply don't stand up under objective scrutiny.
In my opinion the backlit keyboard was the best thing ever invented, I LOVE IIT! The new magnetic adapter is also the best thing invented, oh I could just go on and on about how amazing macs are.

and

Who knows perhaps he'll change his mind after reading up.......oh the MAC side....

ONCE YOU GO MAC YOU NEVER GO BACK

Now that sounds pretty evangelical to me....:tongue::smile:

Things have changed, just because they don't want to whore out theirselves like microsoft doesnt mean that there's something wrong with them. For every PC program out there, there's a MAc equivelant that does the same thing if not better and easier.

It's little to do with whoring, it's choice. Though I grant you the playing field isn't level and Apple are as responsible as Microsoft. The range of software available for MACs for most applications doesn't compare that on the PC platform. That's nothing to do with PCs being better, it's purely economic. In short, Apple screwed up in the 1980s or this conversation could be reversed.

In the end everybody has their preferances. It's like telling a gay guy that girls are better for this reason and this reason. Its not going to make sense, I was just putting the idea out there that perhaps this person may consider a MAC before just shutting them out. I wasn't expecting everybody to turn on me and basically tell me macs suck and that I'm some poser for having one. Sorry for having an opinion I'll just keep my opinions to myself since nobody wants to give them a chance. So yea PC's are amazing and I'm just going to go sit in the corner now with my MAC that is incompatible with the rest of the world.:rolleyes:

Err, that's what I said, it's personal choice:

dong20 said:
I agree I DO like the backlit keyboards, but it's not worth £800 - £1000 IMO. I get it that you like MACs, so do I, I just prefer PCs. It's not an either or which you seem to be painting it as.

All I'm trying to do is speak from personal experience, like yourself. I didn't turn on you, I didn't say don't buy a MAC because they're rubbish (actually I believe I said I liked them), I merely said that they are expensive for their performance, have expensive accessories and in many respects a narrower software base and I stand by that 100%. I made no negative comments about their performance per se. Perhaps some simple truths may seem like an attack it's not one.

In the final analysis, market forces play a role; if MACs were that good they would be more popular thus there's no right or wrong here only personal preference. I have mine, you have yours.:smile:
 

ClaireTalon

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I find it unbelievable how deep and unbridgeable the gap between mac users and pc users can be. It's just computers we're talking, nothing to get fierce about. However, a fact is that if you buy a Macintosh, you're mostly paying for it being a Macintosh, with all the special Macintosh features, like high-end design, funky exterior, and funny gadgets to toy around with, such as transparent, lit keyboards. You could by ordinary PC's for the same or even less money.
 

BlackCock85

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On evangelising:





Now, tell me, where did I say PC=Good and MAC=Bad or that they are incomptible with PCs. They're not, it's nearer the reverse actually. As far as I can see I'm only saying:
  1. The Price/Performance ratio for MACs is higher than PCs,
  2. repairs can and often are more expensive because,
  3. spares are expensive,
  4. some software is not as widely available or as current,
  5. claims that they are 'better' for certain tasks or just 'better' simply don't stand up under objective scrutiny.

and



Now that sounds pretty evangelical to me....:tongue::smile:



It's little to do with whoring, it's choice. Though I grant you the playing field isn't level and Apple are as responsible as Microsoft. The range of software available for MACs for most applications doesn't compare that on the PC platform. That's nothing to do with PCs being better, it's purely economic. In short, Apple screwed up in the 1980s or this conversation could be reversed.



Err, that's what I said, it's personal choice:



All I'm trying to do is speak from personal experience, like yourself. I didn't turn on you, I didn't say don't buy a MAC because they're rubbish (actually I believe I said I liked them), I merely said that they are expensive for their performance, have expensive accessories and in many respects a narrower software base and I stand by that 100%. I made no negative comments about their performance per se. Perhaps some simple truths may seem like an attack it's not one.

In the final analysis, market forces play a role; if MACs were that good they would be more popular thus there's no right or wrong here only personal preference. I have mine, you have yours.:smile:


I never said you said anything, the whole once you go mac you never go back is a joke, just like once you go black you never go back :rolleyes: . The whole software thing I guess that gets more into what you're doing and what you need the computer for. For most people that buy a computer they're using it for pretty basic things and would care less how much software is available as long as they can do what they need. For me I have the adobe suite and a few other artistic programs that assist me and the basic programs, besides those programs I really don't have anything I'm going to be looking for that is going to make a big difference whether or not it's available. Dong I wasn't attacking you personally, in fact I realize what you said it's just so many people out there are preaching that MACS are like the worse thing to ever come along and telling people not to get one based on things they don't know. Being that I've had a PC before the mac I can make a comparison and tell it how I see it.
 

dong20

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I never said you said anything, the whole once you go mac you never go back is a joke, just like once you go black you never go back :rolleyes: . The whole software thing I guess that gets more into what you're doing and what you need the computer for. For most people that buy a computer they're using it for pretty basic things and would care less how much software is available as long as they can do what they need. For me I have the adobe suite and a few other artistic programs that assist me and the basic programs, besides those programs I really don't have anything I'm going to be looking for that is going to make a big difference whether or not it's available. Dong I wasn't attacking you personally, in fact I realize what you said it's just so many people out there are preaching that MACS are like the worse thing to ever come along and telling people not to get one based on things they don't know. Being that I've had a PC before the mac I can make a comparison and tell it how I see it.

I know and I agree with you. I was being pedantic....Now once Apple iron out the inevitable bugs from using Intel and they drop their prices 20% I'll reconsider.:biggrin1:

I find it unbelievable how deep and unbridgeable the gap between mac users and pc users can be. It's just computers we're talking, nothing to get fierce about.....

It is perverse isn't it. From a professional perspective I have additional considerations but if it works they pay me either way.:smile:
 

BlackCock85

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I know and I agree with you. I was being pedantic....Now once Apple iron out the inevitable bugs from using Intel and they drop their prices 20% I'll reconsider.:biggrin1:



It is perverse isn't it. From a professional perspective I have additional considerations but if it works they pay me either way.:smile:


I really need to get some money together and get me a sexy macbook pro :cool: Can't wait for Leopard to come out, oh the joy oh the joy. And yes miss Claire is right, but in the end you must get what makes you happy :biggrin1:
 

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In the final analysis, market forces play a role; if MACs were that good they would be more popular thus there's no right or wrong here only personal preference. I have mine, you have yours.:smile:

The are that good (better, in fact, and if you'd just LIVE with one, you'd agree), but they aren't as popular because Microsoft made it easy for any old hack to throw together simple business programs over a decade ago, thereby encouraging large corporations -- who buy fuckloads of computers that often merely serve as single-purpose tools anyway -- to purchase Wintel boxes to run those custom programs.

In my twenty years of using computers, I have never needed to run Windows. And, I have often listened to friends & coworkers complain about their Windows computers, and have never had to live with the problems they encountered. I have never reinstalled my OS, I have never owned an antivirus program, my computer's security has never been compromised, and I have never had a problem that I couldn't handle before the end of the afternoon. I have never called tech support, either.

(peeves: MAC is not a computer; MAC stands for Media Access Control, and is a networking term. Mac/Macintosh/etc is not a company, it is an operating system that runs on computers built by Apple Computer, Inc.)
 

joyboytoy79

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OK... time for me to put in my 2¢:

I have a Mac. I love it. I've had it for almost a year and it has never once crashed. On occasion (mostly if i have 20 or more aps open) it will freeze up for a minute or so. I've never had to purchase or run virus protection software (to date there are 3 Mac viruses... each is only a 'nuissance' and doesn't cause any real or lasting damage). My machine is able to open ANY file you throw at it. With GNU software, i get most of my PC friendly aps for free.

I paid $850 for an iBook G4 14 inch with a 60gb hard drive. I beat the shit out of the thing. It still runs like a champ. I have a regular sized memory slot that can take another 2 gigs of ram, and i can plug any perifery device into it I want to add further storage space.

Rewind a little bit:

I had a Gateway Solo. I loved it. I had it for less than 6 months and the hard drive fried. It was still under warrenty so i got a new hard drive. Every time i loaded new software, or even updates of existing software it caused more and more system instability. The thing would crash ALL THE TIME. Blue screen of death. Yuck. New software was expensive, and often didn't do what i wanted it to do.

My mother paid $2,350 for a Gateway Solo 2000 with 2GB hard drive. The last time it Blue Screened it died completely. Nobody can figure out what is wrong with it, but it's so far obsolete that they don't really care.

I've also had desktop PCs. They always got bogged down with spy-ware, add-ware and viruses within the first 2 months. The mac simply doesn't do that. For me (an avid internet junky) the lack of viruses and instability headaches more than makes up for the percieved difference in cost.
 

BlackCock85

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The are that good (better, in fact, and if you'd just LIVE with one, you'd agree), but they aren't as popular because Microsoft made it easy for any old hack to throw together simple business programs over a decade ago, thereby encouraging large corporations -- who buy fuckloads of computers that often merely serve as single-purpose tools anyway -- to purchase Wintel boxes to run those custom programs.

In my twenty years of using computers, I have never needed to run Windows. And, I have often listened to friends & coworkers complain about their Windows computers, and have never had to live with the problems they encountered. I have never reinstalled my OS, I have never owned an antivirus program, my computer's security has never been compromised, and I have never had a problem that I couldn't handle before the end of the afternoon. I have never called tech support, either.

(peeves: MAC is not a computer; MAC stands for Media Access Control, and is a networking term. Mac/Macintosh/etc is not a company, it is an operating system that runs on computers built by Apple Computer, Inc.)

You aint neva lied :biggrin1:

OK... time for me to put in my 2¢:

I have a Mac. I love it. I've had it for almost a year and it has never once crashed. On occasion (mostly if i have 20 or more aps open) it will freeze up for a minute or so. I've never had to purchase or run virus protection software (to date there are 3 Mac viruses... each is only a 'nuissance' and doesn't cause any real or lasting damage). My machine is able to open ANY file you throw at it. With GNU software, i get most of my PC friendly aps for free.

I paid $850 for an iBook G4 14 inch with a 60gb hard drive. I beat the shit out of the thing. It still runs like a champ. I have a regular sized memory slot that can take another 2 gigs of ram, and i can plug any perifery device into it I want to add further storage space.

Rewind a little bit:

I had a Gateway Solo. I loved it. I had it for less than 6 months and the hard drive fried. It was still under warrenty so i got a new hard drive. Every time i loaded new software, or even updates of existing software it caused more and more system instability. The thing would crash ALL THE TIME. Blue screen of death. Yuck. New software was expensive, and often didn't do what i wanted it to do.

My mother paid $2,350 for a Gateway Solo 2000 with 2GB hard drive. The last time it Blue Screened it died completely. Nobody can figure out what is wrong with it, but it's so far obsolete that they don't really care.

I've also had desktop PCs. They always got bogged down with spy-ware, add-ware and viruses within the first 2 months. The mac simply doesn't do that. For me (an avid internet junky) the lack of viruses and instability headaches more than makes up for the percieved difference in cost.

I love you JBT, marry me please :rolleyes:
 

dong20

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The are that good (better, in fact, and if you'd just LIVE with one, you'd agree), but they aren't as popular because Microsoft made it easy for any old hack to throw together simple business programs over a decade ago, thereby encouraging large corporations -- who buy fuckloads of computers that often merely serve as single-purpose tools anyway -- to purchase Wintel boxes to run those custom programs.

But I already said I've used both for years and that I like both but prefer PCs. This is based on a number of factors, only one of which is cost. I'm not trying to 'convert' you so please extend me the same courtesy and accept that I have the right to choose whatever works better for me.

My mother paid $2,350 for a Gateway Solo 2000 with 2GB hard drive. The last time it Blue Screened it died completely. Nobody can figure out what is wrong with it, but it's so far obsolete that they don't really care.

When? If it was less then 5 years ago, she was robbed.

(peeves: MAC is not a computer; MAC stands for Media Access Control, and is a networking term. Mac/Macintosh/etc is not a company, it is an operating system that runs on computers built by Apple Computer, Inc.)

Yes, I know what a MAC is, and I thought I was being pedantic.:wink:
 

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I have a Mac. I love it. I've had it for almost a year and it has never once crashed. On occasion (mostly if i have 20 or more aps open) it will freeze up for a minute or so. I've never had to purchase or run virus protection software (to date there are 3 Mac viruses... each is only a 'nuissance' and doesn't cause any real or lasting damage). My machine is able to open ANY file you throw at it. With GNU software, i get most of my PC friendly aps for free.

...

I've also had desktop PCs. They always got bogged down with spy-ware, add-ware and viruses within the first 2 months. The mac simply doesn't do that. For me (an avid internet junky) the lack of viruses and instability headaches more than makes up for the percieved difference in cost.

Ok, ok, please, no mac vs. PC wars. Its pathetic enough as it is!

Lets puts things into perspective, firstly, both have their uses and failures (ok, thats a harsh word), but realistically, they both can co-exisit with one another perfectly well.

Ok, I have personally 4 laptops and a desktop (as well as 7-8 handhelds, etc), Out of all that, most run windows, the 3 laptops run Windows XP and 1 runs Tiger .8 (or is it .9 now?). One pda runs Palm OS 4.1, thats it.

The CE devices were the only ones that I found useful, because, A) they had a keyboard and B) they had what the consummer wants at the time. (I find all pen based as with my PPC2003 PDA and POS PDA became small and cumbersonme, not for typing out long docs in class!). The POS found a space in the loft with its limiited ways.

Now, Apple tried to make the mac as compatible with the PCs as possilbe (As I see it), a lot of PC software is also available for the mac, but remember, there are far less mac users than PCs.
Ok, mac computes don't really suffer from viruses, a MSN virus couldn't be transmitted to my mac when I had MSN open as it turned into garbage. It still retains its speed, as there is few spyware that can be activated and programs are far easier to install. (Sleep works a lot better too, shut the lid and it sleeps virtually instantly, if you are playing a game? Don't worry, it wont crash! :) ). But spares as well as support can lack a lot, because there arent enough of them

PCs on the other hand are cheaper, far more readily available and have far more software with them. The majourity run windows, but you can run linux with a new install. Since there are a lot of PCs, support of PCs is soo great and wide. (You can also build a computer out of spares if you wanted to, not possible with a mac), but malicious software is a problem. Battery life on laptops tend to be another issue.

But does anyone have a problem with me working on PCs AND Macs? TBH, the way I see it, they are all equal, ask me a year ago, and I would say "I hate macs".
 

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I have a Dell Latitude C640 I bought off ebay for about $400.00. Its not a current generation model but works fine for anything I need it for.
It has both memory slots maxed out to 1gig total and a 1.8gig processor.
Oh, cant forget the wireless card.
Runs plenty fast for me. I only bought a Dell because while browsing and comparing I noticed allot of them and read reviews that said they were reliable. Allot of off-lease notebooks on ebay. I figured if allot of offices and businesses use them they should be good enough for me and I only spent a few hundred dollars. But so far so good, I'm happy with it.
I have always bought bare-bones for my desktop and upgraded it myself since I'm more familiar with hardware vs software. I don't go by brand name I go by what features the motherboard has. Does it have plenty of USB ports? ATA hard drive connectors? How many memory slots 2,3,or 4?
AGP slot 4X or 8X? (4X are already getting obsolete)

Also to note I have been beta testing Vista, it has built in DVD burning BUT....I found out you need a pretty new graphics card or that nice little feature wont work. It presents an dialog box telling you so. I thought my graphics card was ample with 512mb memory but I guess there are other requirements to look for having to do with "pixel shader version" and "vertex shader". Also CineFX engine.
Always trying to stay ahead of new technology. I upgrade my desktop unit about every three years but I save money by building it myself. Drives me crazy when friends and family ask me for advice about brand name, they think they are shopping for status or something and then go blow way too much money. Thinking if they spend more (event though they are clueless and let the sales people fill them up with BS) its better.