Now we're in the car business

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_starinvestor, Nov 15, 2008.

  1. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Showdown Looms Over Auto Bailout - WSJ.com

    We're already in the banking business, mortgage, insurance, investment, derivatives, lending....

    Now we're in the fucking car business.

    This government fucking sucks.
     
  2. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    The Pelosi/Reid-led Democrats are out of control.
     
  3. NCbear

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    I mostly agree with your first post--but here's the problem: What to do about those hundreds of thousands of jobs lost if the auto companies go belly-up? Are we ready as a culture for hordes of starving people instigating food riots in the Rust Belt?

    NCbear (who thinks political expediency comes at a severe price, but who also knows those same starving rioters are also voters in this political system)
     
  4. 1BiGG1

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    I 100% support helping the auto companies in the name of national security (for many more reasons also), but only if it’s mandated UAW contracts and legacy costs are gotten rid of which we of course already know the liberals in Congress ain’t gonna touch.
     
  5. NCbear

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    I wish that was the price of the auto bailout. Paying someone $29/hr to make a Buick (now that's an exciting car, folks!) is not my idea of economic sense.

    NCbear (who wants to buy a Tesla Roadster--fast, light, and fun--when the price comes down to $15K or less)
     
  6. Industrialsize

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    Oh that will Really help the economy and the auto workers.:eek:
     
  7. 1BiGG1

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    It’s what you call “good for the whole” and worked well for United Airlines who is still in business today because they did just that.

    There is a reason domestic auto manufacturers are profitable in other parts of the world and not here in the number 1 market segment, and that reason needs addressing.
     
  8. 1BiGG1

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    China overtook Europe as the number 2 auto market and GM is the number one importer and number 1 manufacturer with their partnerships there. They are also very profitable because they get to play on a level playing field against rivals unlike here.

    An interesting note is the Chinese love Buick and it became the number 1 brand in 2006.

    If this hits the streets ….

    2007 Buick Riviera Concept - The Car Connection

    …. it could be a real game-changer here, I know I need one!
     
  9. Industrialsize

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    China is number 2 because they pat their workers lik 10 cents a day!
     
  10. NCbear

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    Still not convinced by the Buicks of the world, sorry. :biggrin1:

    NCbear (who drives an exciting "30% Ford," otherwise known as a Mazda6 :tongue::rolleyes:)
     
  11. NCbear

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    Back to the topic at hand: Yes, if we really stood by our principles, we'd let the businesses fail.

    But what kinds of economic ripple effects would we see? Well, for one, the emperor would finally be perceived as naked. In other words, for those who didn't get the The Emperor Has No Clothes reference, the U.S. economy would finally be understood as fatally flawed and heading toward implosion.

    And then China would take its acknowledged place as the number-one economy on the world stage. As it (arguably) already is.

    NCbear (who knows the U.S. economy is already on life support and breathing its death rattles)
     
  12. 1BiGG1

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    Yeah, they became the number 2 auto market with their workers getting 10 cents a day. Now lets see, a new 35,000 dollar Buick with payments off …
     
  13. buddysattva

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    its probably all just grasping at straws
    it needed to be addressed over the last 20 years in america's culture of debt.
    i dont see how the government can make up for the fact that businesses and consumers owe way more money than they can ever repay. this has been a long time in the making.
     
  14. NCbear

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    I agree completely.

    NCbear (who selectively quoted, above, to make his point)
     
  15. 1BiGG1

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    I would have bought a Buick Lucerne for my everyday driver but opted for a Chevrolet Impala instead because Buick didn’t offer a FLEXFUEL. I burn E85 in support of keeping 85% of my fuel dollars domestic.

    P.S. It is nice that you are driving a vehicle produced by an American owned manufacturer btw.


    The Chinese economy would be nothing without the United States and Europe propping it up and the economy here is only seeing a short-term glitch. Our economy is still gigantic compared with China and we must remember, it wasn’t China who really built anything themselves, it was the money coming from the US and Europe that built it into what it is today.

    The Chinese saw the light after they got Hong Kong back as a fully functioning and very lucrative capitalist entity.
     
    #15 1BiGG1, Nov 15, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
  16. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    There is only one remedy, and that is cutting the labor costs. If my chocolate cost is 100k per ton, and yours if 50k per ton, my candy bar business is defeated. I can either go out of business or figure out a way to get my chocolate cost down to 50k per ton.

    In this case, the gov't is just bailing me out and my chocolate cost stays at 100k.

    The unions have to relent on their insupportable benefits. That will never happen. The Democrats will never get behind this simple fact, and the autos will simply survive for another year and we'll be right back in the same position, but with yet another heavy drag on our deficit.

    Gazillionaire Nancy Pelosi and the gang or so far removed from simple economics and rationale that they can't even internalize some of these basic and elementary facts.

    I can appreciate thoughts and comments from the liberal side of the aisle. But this woman is so extreme and dangerous, and wields so much power, that we could be looking at the 70's economy for the next 10 years.

    Pelosi may be the most dangerous and unstable politician in American history.
     
  17. sargon20

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    And China's economy is totally export driven. If the US economy implodes exactly what would China do with all those goods that Americans no longer can afford? Sit on the dock? China would implode too. It's all interconnected. So much for number one. Heaven Can Wait.

    Sean Hannity? Is that you? Or Mann Coulter? It must be one of you. :confused:
     
    #17 sargon20, Nov 15, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
  18. NCbear

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    True, true: We are all interconnected.

    I wonder whether there has ever been serious thought given toward finding workable economic systems that won't bankrupt the entire globe when bullshit happens to one major player.

    NCbear (who sometimes wishes he had the means and the viable destination to go off-planet)
     
  19. 1BiGG1

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    Pelosi: Aid bill will require Big 3 to restructure, meet fuel-efficiency goals | The Detroit News | detnews.com

    …. and as predicted ”Polasi did not mention any plans for the UAW to make any concessions as part of the legislation” while her good buddy and major democratic campaign financer UAW president Ron Gettelfinger says "The focus has to be on the economy as a whole as opposed to a UAW contract"

    The union has said it made several concessions in its 2007 labor agreement, setting lower pay for new hires and placing retiree health care liability into a trust run by the UAW … but what they are not telling everybody is domestic manufacturers are of course funding that trust while paying unreasonable wages to the vast majority of their workforces as so few “new hires” exist they aren’t even worth mentioning.

    Congress stop pandering to your special interest groups and do what’s right for America for a change please!
     
  20. Rikter8

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    Well I can speak from my little corner of the world, in the Heart of the Automotive world.

    Michigan is so fucked that it will NEVER recover. It won't recover because it relies heavily on automotive for its backbone. Within that backbone, you have companines that are resisting change, and doing things the old way - no matter what.

    I do NOT agree with the bailout. I didn't agree with any form of Bailout for AIG or anyone else, because it is unconstitutional, and the government is not a Bank for giving out money, on the backs of taxpayers.

    If they are going to do this, I feel that the following should take place.

    1. Fire all the top brass at Ford, GM, Chrysler. Do not give them a golden parachute. They are resistant to change, and that's whats needed for them to compete in a GLOBAL economy. Hire new business leaders that don't require 1 million a month sallary. (Likewise with AIG)

    2. Make STRICT STRINGENT rules of repayment, at a high interest rate to the government. This needs to be a "Last Resort" option. Not a "I want my share too". Require external accountants to trace every dollars allocation to the temporary fix. The money cannot be used for anything other than legacy costs, or industry costs. Off limits to executives and current staff.

    3. Shake up the UAW and fire existing upper union leaders. Reduce union dues - they don't contribute to anything, other than making a few people very rich.

    4. Make Union workers understand that they are there to produce a good product. If you fail to produce a good product, you can find a new job elsewhere. Sleeping on the job is not allowed.
    You can have a union, but not to the corrupt extent that it is today.

    We all want to make good money, but if we can't be smart about it, and compete globally, we will ALL be out of jobs.

    The problem is that the common worker cannot afford a new vehicle. Yet the big 3 produce thousands of new vehicles per day.
    I can't comment on which supplier has a 365 day inventory of a specific model....but it's the same thing. WHY BUILD MORE WHEN NO ONE IS BUYING??

    Besides...as a born GM die hard... I would never buy a new GM vehicle anyway, especially when the quality took a dump.
     
    #20 Rikter8, Nov 17, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2008
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