OATH KEEPERS: Are They for Real???

[MercyfulFate]

I agree with you about the paranoia. It's seems the last thing the elite in America, you know, "the powers that be", would do is confiscate property or blockade food. I mean, they already have control and they need nice contented consumers for everything to run smoothly. I should think they would not want to provoke a citizenry that is armed to the teeth, into rebellion by taking away their material goods.

The economic crisis is pretty much already taking away people's material goods.

 

[Industrialsize]

They are only recruiting serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, and Peace Officers . See the connection?? They only want people with GUNS.

 

[MercyfulFate]

They are only recruiting serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, and Peace Officers . See the connection?? They only want people with GUNS.

Well, Firefighters don't have guns by trade, nor even veterans or all peace officers. They seem to be recruiting those people as they're in the positions of power they're talking about, or at least that's how I read it.

A veteran may be more likely to have a gun, but they don't get a gun by default. My Marine friend had to go through the same channels any civilian did to get his firearms licenses.

 

[Industrialsize]

Well, Firefighters don't have guns by trade, nor even veterans or all peace officers. They seem to be recruiting those people as they're in the positions of power they're talking about, or at least that's how I read it.

A veteran may be more likely to have a gun, but they don't get a gun by default. My Marine friend had to go through the same channels any civilian did to get his firearms licenses.

Did you see the youtube clip of the leader's interview? HE said they were only looking for folks with guns himself. This is not some benign little group. They are trying to create an ARMED, citizen's militia against the government. Their "interest" in the constitution is cursory.

 

[MercyfulFate]

Did you see the youtube clip of the leader's interview? HE said they were only looking for folks with guns himself. This is not some benign little group. They are trying to create an ARMED, citizen's militia against the government. Their "interest" in the constitution is cursory.

I can't hear anything from it, the volume is far too low even with it turned up all the way.

I'm just making a point that some of those people don't have guns by default.

Also to play devil's advocate, is an armed overthrow of the government a bad thing if that government has abused the people they should serve?

 

[vince]

They probably focus on the ex-servicemen and policemen because they already have training in arms and combat.

 

[vince]

Also to play devil's advocate, is an armed overthrow of the government a bad thing if that government has abused the people they should serve?

Then what happens? What's next?

Isn't that what the ballot box is for?

 

[Industrialsize]

I can't hear anything from it, the volume is far too low even with it turned up all the way.

I'm just making a point that some of those people don't have guns by default.

Also to play devil's advocate, is an armed overthrow of the government a bad thing if that government has abused the people they should serve?

Yes it is, we don't have armed overthrows of the government, we have elections.

 

[MercyfulFate]

Yes it is, we don't have armed overthrows of the government, we have elections.

Engage Devil's Advocate(Must point this out everytime, just in case):

We had an armed overthrow of the government in our past, set off by many things but the spark caused by taxation without representation. The Tea Party was nothing in comparison to say, the bailout in America in 2008. Many things the Bush Administration did were anti-constitution as well, or even violated international laws.

What if those elections become meaningless? What if you elect someone who does the opposite of what you elected him to do? What if he/she rises to power as a peacemaker, and then becomes a fascist?

 

[jason_els]

Most of it is paranoia, but a few are things that should be common sense overall. There's been plenty of peaceful protests broken up by tasers and things of the like.

The concentration camp/blockade/food stuff is all a bit much though.

Not really. The FEMA camps conspiracy has scared the crap out of people. The camps resemble German concentration camps and have rail lines going in and out to service them. To even look at the pictures of them is chilling and the maps don't help either.

 

[MercyfulFate]

Not really. The FEMA camps conspiracy has scared the crap out of people. The camps resemble German concentration camps and have rail lines going in and out to service them. To even look at the pictures of them is chilling and the maps don't help either.

That's something I've heard about and honestly, not something I've put a ton of stock in.

I believe plenty of things that go against the grain, but something beyond pictures of a jail-type setting and maps would be necessary for me to make a more informed judgment on it.

 

[jason_els]

Yes it is, we don't have armed overthrows of the government, we have elections.

Mercy's right about this. We do have armed overthrow of government and it's enshrined in our very founding as a right we hold above that of the Constitution. It's impossible to recognize the founding fathers as great patriots without recognizing that they themselves were armed revolutionaries in the truest sense. They did their best to found a federal government but wrote about the right of the people to have revolution when conditions demanded it.

However remote the idea may seem, we are a nation born of revolution and live in a country which is founded upon revolution. When that's the case, revolution is always an option.

 

[jason_els]

That's something I've heard about and honestly, not something I've put a ton of stock in.

I believe plenty of things that go against the grain, but something beyond pictures of a jail-type setting and maps would be necessary for me to make a more informed judgment on it.

Most people haven't but the meme is alive and well. If you see the sort of sites which are reporting about this, you'll find the heart of the radical libertarian movement. Even FOX has tried to debunk this story but it won't go away. A lot of people are worried (rightly or wrongly).

 

[SpeedoGuy]

The whole thing just screams paranoia. It really does. The Patriot Act, although a piece of legislation that we can all agree is just wrong, seems like a convenient excuse to fuel the flames.

I'm with that.

Wages are falling farther and farther behind the cost of living, the security of retirement plans seems ever shakier, credit card debt is rampant, obesity ruins more lives than al Qaeda and people are jittery about secession or concentration camps?

 

[MercyfulFate]

I'm with that.

Wages are falling farther and farther behind the cost of living, the security of retirement plans seems ever shakier, credit card debt is rampant, obesity ruins more lives than al Qaeda and people are jittery about secession or concentration camps?

People are worried about al Qaeda when you're more likely to get killed by...just about anything.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Actually I've read the majority of it more than once, thanks. For the record I don't follow the mainstream media almost at all, barring the occasional news story.

You must be disappointed that you will not be able to read the Health Care bill. In case you missed it (since you don't follow the media) the congressional dems blocked efforts to have it posted online.

No spin, that's what happened.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

People are worried about al Qaeda when you're more likely to get killed by...just about anything.

Unless they were one of the 2750 in the WTC. How quickly people forget.

Terrorism deniers are the same as Holocaust deniers. Why do people always say "We must never let the Holocaust happen again," but when someone says "we must never let terrorist attacks happen again" they are viewed as "Right Wing Nuts"?

 

[MercyfulFate]

Unless they were one of the 2750 in the WTC. How quickly people forget.

Who says I forgot? My point still stands, and is true.

 

[Bbucko]

Who says I forgot? My point still stands, and is true.

Skippy's cheery picking and parsing to pick fights. He must have had a shitty day.

 

[MercyfulFate]

Terrorism deniers are the same as Holocaust deniers. Why do people always say "We must never let the Holocaust happen again," but when someone says "we must never let terrorist attacks happen again" they are viewed as "Right Wing Nuts"?

Terrorism deniers are the same as holocaust deniers? Wait, what?

Who's denying terrorism? I'm saying it's less dangerous than almost anything. You are more likely to get killed by a drunk driver than a terrorist.

Frankly, the fear of terrorism is overblown anyway. Does it happen? Yep. Do people die? Yes. However when placed next to something like AIDS, it's really not so big anymore.

Skippy's cheery picking and parsing to pick fights. He must have had a shitty day.

I guess so. He's not the only one round here in that mode as of late.