Obama and Democrats' Torture Problem

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Trinity, May 24, 2009.

  1. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Obama and Democrats' Torture Problem
    U.S. News & World Report
    By Kenneth T. Walsh
    Posted May 22, 2009
    When Pelosi said she had nothing else to say on the matter did that mean she wouldn't be talking about torture again?

     
  2. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Trinity,

    If Cheney had instructed the Bush Justice Dept. to find a legal justification for killing detainees at Guantanamo (because indefinate detaining cannot go on forever, let's imagine Bush and Cheney instructed the Justice Dept. to find a legal rationale for executing the suspected terrorists - who were not going to get a trial anyway - and then instruced the CIA to carry out this mission).... would that be considered "bad advice", too? Poor judgement? And "not illegal"? Because whatever the president does is, by definition, not illegal?


    I seriously doubt you've ever given this topic an hour's worth of serious contemplation. Like a honey bee going from flower to flower, you seem to flit from one "conservative" article to the next, and plop down the links to the current talking point.


    The point is that Bush and Cheney broke existing domestic and international laws. And, knowing that this was illegal, they artificially constructed "new" legal theories via Justice Department lawyers to overide these existing laws.

    If Bush had had the Justice Dept. write up legal justifications for overriding the U.S. Constitution during 2002, would you continue to defend him - because during times of war the president gets to become a unitary executive branch of government?
     
    #2 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, May 25, 2009
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  3. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    QFT, but moreso with Cheney than anyone else. He's been pulling the strings with everything surrounding the war in Iraq from the beginning, and that includes the issues of redefining "torture" and manipulating the people around him to do most of the talking and taking the falls. And everyone knows, if Obama himself made pushing an investigation a high priority, he wouldn't be able to focus on the economy, health care and everything else that our nation needs.

    Whether or not our beloved forum nuisance who created this abomination of a thread realizes that is a different story. Of course, (s)he's not here to truly get to the bottom of the whole torture problem. (S)he just want to watch Pelosi burn because (s)he thinks it would have an adverse effect on Obama. :rolleyes:
     
    #3 B_VinylBoy, May 25, 2009
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  4. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Why would we discuss 'what if' scenarios of situations that did not occur? Obama himself has suggested that he may have a group of indefinite detainees. Bad advice and poor judgement is what the current Administration believes the legal opinon to be. The previous Administration holds a different view on the legal opinion. Criminalization of differing policy is what AG Holder's Justice Dept. did not want to enter into. In order for him to determine a crime was committed, the action would have to be illegal. Just because Obama does not agree with the legal opinion, does not mean the legal opinion is outside the rule of law. AG Holder had to admit that the legal opinion did not break the law.

    Replace "conservative" with "Obama" and you describe your little Obama crush that is your thread creation history.

    Obama's Attorney General Eric Holder didn't agree:

    One of the things we clearly want to do with these prisoners is to have an ability to interrogate them and find out what their future plans might be, where other cells are located; under the Geneva Convention that you are really limited in the amount of information that you can elicit from people.


    It seems to me that given the way in which they have conducted themselves, however, that they are not, in fact, people entitled to the protection of the Geneva Convention. They are not prisoners of war. If, for instance, Mohammed Atta had survived the attack on the World Trade Center, would we now be calling him a prisoner of war? I think not. Should Zacarias Moussaoui be called a prisoner of war? Again, I think not. - Eric Holder, Former Deputy Attorney General in 2002

    (You may need to see and hear Holder say this himself...)

    Holder: Detainees Don't Fall Under Geneva Conventions
     
  5. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    Bla Bla Bla...........Waterboarding IS TORTURE, Just because Al-Qaeda didn't sign the Geneva Convention, the UNITED STATES did. The USA has tried and convicted people for performing waterboarding. There is NO SUCH THING as "enhanced interrogation", it's TORTURE and we live in a country where torture is illegal.
     
    #5 Industrialsize, May 25, 2009
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  6. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    And with every post, the ugliness that is Trinitroll continues to be exposed.
    (S)he can't even fathom that someone can have a favorable position on Obama without somehow being "enamored" by him. Meanwhile, (s)he's obsessed on his utter demise by posting anywhere up to 10 different anti-Democrat, anti-Liberal or anti-Obama threads every week.

    The game doesn't fool anyone, bitch. Try a different one.
     
  7. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    The silence is deafening...
     
  8. TurkeyWithaSunburn

    Gold Member

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    Who's the title of the leader of the executive branch?
    (President)

    I wasn't aware of any override vote etc... So must've been the executive branch's doings. :rolleyes:
     
    #8 TurkeyWithaSunburn, May 25, 2009
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  9. sargon20

    Gold Member

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    The 'Hillary Democrat' charade has long been over. The Faux News correspondent has been exposed. A complete fraud.

    Would a 'Hillary Democrat' start the following?

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    Palin 47%, Biden 44% in Matchup[/FONT]
     
    #9 sargon20, May 25, 2009
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  10. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    You are the only fraud. You can't respond to what Obama's Attorney General stated or to the article in the original post...but don't worry you attacking me is speaking volumes.

    The silence is still deafening...
     
  11. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    I see you are trying to scare us with LARGER TYPE!...lol........did it ever occur to you that some of us may be bored with your litany of anti-Obama threads? Hence the "silence"
     
  12. houtx48

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    of yes it's obama's and the democrats problem..........it was the fuktard bushsheep that started it.
     
  13. sargon20

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    No. On inauguration day all of Bush's problems were officially turned over to Obama and are now his problems and need to be cleaned up immediately with no costs and within 30 days. I mean how long do you need to undo 8 years of government inepitude and two wars? How HARD can that be?
     
  14. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Nope. You simply have nothing of substance to say to the facts presented.

    Personal Attacks, pitiful excuses that have no relevance to the facts of the thread and head-in-the-sand silence...that's about it.
     
  15. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    Nope, no head in the sand here..........just bored.
     
  16. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Really? Just bored when you hear Eric Holder, Attorney General say that detainees don't fall under the Geneva Conventions because that would limit our interrogations...Sure.
     
  17. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    Nope.......bored with your threads

    (BTW I don't agree with the President or Attorney General on this issue and am lobbying my representatives in congress)
     
    #17 Industrialsize, May 25, 2009
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  18. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Yep, head in the sand.

    One of the things we clearly want to do with these prisoners is to have an ability to interrogate them and find out what their future plans might be, where other cells are located; under the Geneva Convention that you are really limited in the amount of information that you can elicit from people.



    It seems to me that given the way in which they have conducted themselves, however, that they are not, in fact, people entitled to the protection of the Geneva Convention. They are not prisoners of war. If, for instance, Mohammed Atta had survived the attack on the World Trade Center, would we now be calling him a prisoner of war? I think not. Should Zacarias Moussaoui be called a prisoner of war? Again, I think not. - Eric Holder, Former Deputy Attorney General in 2002




    (You may need to see and hear Holder say this himself...)

    Holder: Detainees Don't Fall Under Geneva Conventions
     
  19. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    I don't need to listen to anything. I don't agree with what Holder said in 2002. BTW, it's 2009. I think a country how TORTURES has a stain on it. I don't want to live in a country who TORTURES> You apparently do
     
  20. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Of course I don't.

    Obama can make a teleprompter speech so eloquent (of course he'll be advised by Soufan) that it will sway the most hardened terrorist to put down their weapons of mass destruction, abandon their plans of mayhem at the mere sound of Obama's righteous reason and Soufan can do all the interrogations of detainees where he'll hand out coca-cola and laughs and obtain all the intelligence needed to foil all imminent attacks. I'm all for it.
     
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