Obama and racial division.

qazxdr

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one should recognize the decline in standards of American education -- we are producing college graduates who cannot read

i do think the libs' trumpeting of that little factoid is both telling and misplaced

and just to think that they are the ones who will decide which nursing home you will go to....if you aren't scared you need to take another look...and be scared..
 

B_Nick4444

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(how old do you think I am?!?!?!)

at any rate, yes, since the whole thing started I've been quoting
Chip Rommel

(from his scene in Son of the Beach, Episode 6, "The Gay Team", wherein Notch enters "The Gaytrix" to rescue Chip from the evil Heinous Anus, who is bent on destroying the straight world, while B.J. and Jamaica punish Porcelain for her gold-digging ways.)

Chip is tied to a chair where he will be blasted with a ray gun that will turn him gay:

"I'm so terribly frightened!"

 

Principessa

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Obama is more impressive to me than Gore or Kerry were. In my opinion, Obama didn't make the election about race and that established an environment in which issues far exceeded race.

I also thought it showed good judgment, in his victory speech, that he did not allow Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton onto the stage.

Why would he have invited either one onto the stage?:confused: They weren't members of his campaign staff nor are they family. If memory serves correct they didn't exactly support him. Jesse threatened to cut his balls off.

I have read a few articles in the last month that demonstrated that crime had actually dropped precipitously since the election in normally crime-laden areas. There may be an unexpected benefit from his election in the area of crime, who knows?
Call it a brief honeymoon. :rolleyes: Trust me a black President isn't going to influence crime decreasing over the long term.

In any case, I would be surprised if the issue of racial division doesn't improve as a result of this scenario.
Awww, that's cute. Keep believing that okay. :smile:
 

B_Nick4444

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Awww, that's cute. Keep believing that okay. :smile:


Indeed, the only way it's going to end is when we leave the sixties behind and stop making divisions and distinctions among ourselves

a good start would be the abandonment of federal laws and programs that legitimize, institutionalize, and perpetuate these reified distinctions and categories:soapbox:


(BTW, when may we start on the UK?:biggrin1:)
 

HazelGod

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He was remarking on an earlier, inaccurate post from somebody that said race was comparatively unimportant in the election.

Which part of my statement did you believe to be inaccurate? And don't forget to establish the why...

Was that all States HG? Though i wonder if over 30's git s like me will bow to the tide?

Yes, that was from the aggregate exit poll data from the entire USA. Granted, I haven't spent a great deal of time poring over the raw numbers, but exit polls showed guys our age almost split down the middle...a very slight bias toward Obama in the 30-39 group. (Yes, I'm making the assumption that you aren't older than dirt. Yet.) I'd actually like to see the results for the 18-34 age group, as that would really scope it down to those traditionally considered "Gen X" and later.


Oh, I saw this and thought of you :biggrin1:

Hey, nobody wants to be served a dirty filet, non?
 

Drifterwood

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Where are you getting your numbers? Blacks make up only 13 percent of the US population and not all vote Democratic or for a black candidate. This country is basically split down the middle with a small majority going Democratic.

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | US Elections 2008 | Who voted for Obama?

Scroll down the page a bit.

95% of 13% is what?

I take all the other points regarding age, education and even gender. This is why it is so interesting to this outsider. It really does look like a bit of a revolution. White middle aged middle incomers tend to think that they own the place and Repubs have gone on and on here about paying for everything. I am not surprised at some of their reactions and I wonder what it will mean for the future.

Most of the US people I meet on business travel, including my friends, fall into the Repub category above, so I am interested in what they will be saying. I know, I have GOP friends :redface:.
 

dreamer20

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I have always been interested in racial division in the US. I found it more pronounced than the UK the first time I ever visited, you could walk down a street in New York and the only Black people you saw were doormen and then you would go on one block and it was no go for white people. That was the 90's BTW.

Where were you in 1990s New York such that the only black people seen were doormen? Was David Dinkins still the Mayor of NYC then?
David Dinkins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll have to accompany you on your next NYC visit to show you those persons, other than doormen,that you weren't aware of in Manhattan, Staten Island, the Bronx, Harlem, Queens and Long Island.
 

B_Nick4444

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Where were you in 1990s New York such that the only black people seen were doormen? Was David Dinkins still the Mayor of NYC then?
David Dinkins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll have to accompany you on your next NYC visit to show you those persons, other than doormen,that you weren't aware of in Manhattan, Staten Island, the Bronx, Harlem, Queens and Long Island.


ditto

not at all America, even decades earlier

so called blacks have been part of the fabric of American society from the beginning, as contrasted with the UK, where it was illegal to even give them employment until well after the conclusion of World War II
 

Drifterwood

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ditto

not at all America, even decades earlier

so called blacks have been part of the fabric of American society from the beginning, as contrasted with the UK, where it was illegal to even give them employment until well after the conclusion of World War II

Are you deranged? You had to engrain slavery in your society to keep the Southern States in your War of Independence. Have you ever read Jefferson's disgusting racist views?. You kept Slavery going for another 90 years and 50 after the rest of us had abolished it. You had to fight one of the bloodiest civil wars ever seen to end it. Your legalised apartheid wasn't rescinded until the late sixties and even then there had to be a major battle. What sort of denial are you in?

And no, they were not part of the fabric from the beginning. Go read some History.

And yes, in the early Nineties my impression of New York (Manhattan) was as I said.
 

Industrialsize

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ditto

not at all America, even decades earlier

so called blacks have been part of the fabric of American society from the beginning, as contrasted with the UK, where it was illegal to even give them employment until well after the conclusion of World War II
What exactly is a "so called black"?
 

marleyisalegend

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What exactly is a "so called black"?

There are several options of testing if someone is black or not.

1. One-drop rule, any black ancestor anywhere in their lineage designates them as black.

2. Paperbag test. Put a paperbag to their face and if they blend like a chameleon, they're black.

3. The Jeffersons-grape soda-fried porkskins-employment test. Put them in a room with The Jeffersons playing on the TV and a grape soda, bag of skins, and a job application on the armrest. If they sip the soda, eat the skins, and watch Jeffersons, they're black. If they shun those things and pick up the job application, they ain't.

4. Start tapping rhythmic patterns on the wall (this sometimes proves difficult for the rhythmically challenged). If they start nodding their head in syncopation to your rhythm, you've got a black man on your hands.
 
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dong20

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...so called blacks have been part of the fabric of American society from the beginning, as contrasted with the UK, where it was illegal to even give them employment until well after the conclusion of World War II

Bollocks.

Racial discrimination was never enshrined in British law (as opposed to slavery which was legal beyond its shores). It exists, certainly but it was never written in domestic statute. Now, cite the legislation to which you 'allude', or pipe down.
 

B_Nick4444

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1783
Black North American soldiers, who had fought along side British soldiers against the colonies in the American Revolutionary War, arrived in London to reap the "freedom" they were promised for their service. But what they received was immediate access into British poverty. In 1731, the Lord Mayor of London had proclaimed that no blacks could be taught trades, and neither black slaves nor servants were entitled to poor law relief or wages. Homelessness and starvation, or kidnapping and re-enslavement became their new harsh realities. Some blacks found their way into St. Giles or other areas along the Wapping River. There, they lived alongside poor whites in abject poverty and misery 2


 
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B_Nick4444

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Probably, the commonest complaint against black people in the eighteenth century was the threat they allegedly posed to white employment. Many free blacks were employed in domestic service or as seamen and it is significant that the protests against black labour did not come from white domestics or seamen but from the white West India and pro-slavery lobby, who were also connected with the City. It was not surprising, therefore, that, in 1731, the Lord Mayor of London, who also held, at the time, certain juridicial powers, issued a solemn proclamation prohibiting apprenticeships for black people, some of whom had been trying to learn a skill: “It is ordered by this Court, That for the future no Negroes or other Blacks be suffered to be bound Apprentices at any of the Companies of the City to any Freeman thereof; and that copies of this Order be printed and sent out to the Masters and Wardens of the several Companies of this City, who are required to see the same at all times hereafter duly observed” (28).

The United Kingdom Council for Human Rights
 

B_Nick4444

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Unable to obtain employment and with no means of support, the black loyalists soon swelled the ranks of the Black Poor in London, crowding the capital’s disease-breeding streets and alleys. Reduced to begging, they suffered from all the problems associated with poverty, disease and malnutrition. The Black Poor were regarded as a separate problem and London parishes were unwilling to carry out their statutory duties towards them in regard to poor relief and help in cases of illnesses and invalidism. Living in conditions of degradation, the Black Poor were visible because of their colour and were scapegoated for the problems of the City’s ghettos.

THE VIRTUAL DISAPPEARANCE OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY IN BRITAIN IN THE NINETEENTH CENTURY

In the 100 years between the early part of the nineteenth century and World War I, there occurred a profound diminuition in the number of black people living in Britain, until there were just a few tiny pockets in the slum areas of the old slave ports. This demographic pattern speaks volumes. The arguments put forward by Fryer and Walvin(39) suggest that this diminuition, occurring within two generations, was due to the combined effects of a decrease in immigration, consequent upon the abolition of the slave trade, and intermarriage.
When the position of the black poor underclass at the beginning of the nineteenth century is considered together with the total absence of a discernible mulatto culture in the latter part of the nineteenth century as well as the social sanctions against miscegenation, then the conclusion, that the pronounced black presence in Britain at the beginning of the last century gradually died out, is inescapable. That this occurred as a result of grinding poverty, physical and mental stress, malnutrition and disease is more credible than the argument that a severely disadvantaged and exploited black underclass “disappeared” by intermarrying into higher socio-economic groups. This latter outcome was, moreover, unlikely in the case of a social group that was obliged, socially at least, to keep to itself.
Was this a slow genocide?



The United Kingdom Council for Human Rights
 

B_Nick4444

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Are you deranged? You had to engrain slavery in your society to keep the Southern States in your War of Independence. Have you ever read Jefferson's disgusting racist views?. You kept Slavery going for another 90 years and 50 after the rest of us had abolished it. You had to fight one of the bloodiest civil wars ever seen to end it. Your legalised apartheid wasn't rescinded until the late sixties and even then there had to be a major battle. What sort of denial are you in?

And no, they were not part of the fabric from the beginning. Go read some History.

And yes, in the early Nineties my impression of New York (Manhattan) was as I said.


dear fellow

early colonial history recites that many who were here, were here as indentured servants

while still British colonies, slavery was introduced

while still British colonies, intermarriage was taking place, was found abhorrent by the British overlords, and then prohibited

Thomas Jefferson was reciting the precepts of the British ideology that was fostered to legitimize slavery, again an ideology that had its origin across the Atlantic

shortly following the severance from Great Britain, those who had been in servitude, gradually found the way to live their lives as free men contributing to the nation's economic, scientific, literary, and artistic progress

you cite your trip in 1990's New York as demonstration of a continuing apartheid

you might want to review the nineteenth century in America, and review the rolls of who included plantation owners, who were scientists, et al

you surely have heard of Mark Twain? his pieces relate childhood friendships, as part of the normal texture of American life, with the different so-called races ...

have you reviewed who among Americans were millionaires?

you recount 1990 New York; I can tell you that not far from where I'm sitting now, the City of Houston had the highest concentration of black millionaires than any other part of the country as shown in a 1970's census-- that's millionaires in the plural, and they were found in other parts of the country

they have been part of the fabric of our country, and contributed meaningfully, to the point that our country would not be the same without them

I actually have studied both US & UK history, given that I have ancestors that have participated in both, thank you.
 

B_Nick4444

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shouldn't give up that day job, just yet

There are several options of testing if someone is black or not.

1. One-drop rule, any black ancestor anywhere in their lineage designates them as black.

2. Paperbag test. Put a paperbag to their face and if they blend like a chameleon, they're black.

3. The Jeffersons-grape soda-fried porkskins-employment test. Put them in a room with The Jeffersons playing on the TV and a grape soda, bag of skins, and a job application on the armrest. If they sip the soda, eat the skins, and watch Jeffersons, they're black. If they shun those things and pick up the job application, they ain't.

4. Start tapping rhythmic patterns on the wall (this sometimes proves difficult for the rhythmically challenged). If they start nodding their head in syncopation to your rhythm, you've got a black man on your hands.
 

Drifterwood

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they have been part of the fabric of our country, and contributed meaningfully, to the point that our country would not be the same without them

I actually have studied both US & UK history, given that I have ancestors that have participated in both, thank you.

Your ancestry is utterly irrelevant. You may have read a few books that support your moronic fairytale.

You proclaimed what one Lord Mayor of London did in 1731 as reflective of the UK until after the Second World War. You're a joke.

Facts dear boy. I quoted them before and you have produced nothing to disclaim them, because you can't. Try dealing with a timeline to begin with.

BE VERY SHOCKED

Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia


It will probably be asked, Why not retain and incorporate the blacks into the state, and thus save the expence of supplying, by importation of white settlers, the vacancies they will leave? Deep rooted prejudices entertained by the whites; ten thousand recollections, by the blacks, of the injuries they have sustained; new provocations; the real distinctions which nature has made; and many other circumstances, will divide us into parties, and produce convulsions which will probably never end but in the extermination of the one or the other race. -- To these objections, which are political, may be added others, which are physical and moral. The first difference which strikes us is that of colour. Whether the black of the negro resides in the reticular membrane between the skin and scarf-skin, or in the scarf-skin itself; whether it proceeds from the colour of the blood, the colour of the bile, or from that of some other secretion, the difference is fixed in nature, and is as real as if its seat and cause were better known to us. And is this difference of no importance? Is it not the foundation of a greater or less share of beauty in the two races? Are not the fine mixtures of red and white, the expressions of every passion by greater or less suffusions of colour in the one, preferable to that eternal monotony, which reigns in the countenances, that immoveable veil of black which covers all the emotions of the other race? Add to these, flowing hair, a more elegant symmetry of form, their own judgment in favour of the whites, declared by their preference of them, as uniformly as is the preference of the Oranootan for the black women over those of his own species. The circumstance of superior beauty, is thought worthy attention in the propagation of our horses, dogs, and other domestic animals; why not in that of man? Besides those of colour, figure, and hair, there are other physical distinctions proving a difference of race. They have less hair on the face and body. They secrete less by the kidnies, and more by the glands of the skin, which gives them a very strong and disagreeable odour. This greater degree of transpiration renders them more tolerant of heat, and less so of cold, than the whites. Perhaps too a difference of structure in the pulmonary apparatus, which a late ingenious experimentalist has discovered to be the principal regulator of animal heat, may have disabled them from extricating, in the act of inspiration, so much of that fluid from the outer air, or obliged them in expiration, to part with more of it. They seem to require less sleep. A black, after hard labour through the day, will be induced by the slightest amusements to sit up till midnight, or later, though knowing he must be out with the first dawn of the morning. They are at least as brave, and more adventuresome. But this may perhaps proceed from a want of forethought, which prevents their seeing a danger till it be present. When present, they do not go through it with more coolness or steadiness than the whites. They are more ardent after their female: but love seems with them to be more an eager desire, than a tender delicate mixture of sentiment and sensation. Their griefs are transient. Those numberless afflictions, which render it doubtful whether heaven has given life to us in mercy or in wrath, are less felt, and sooner forgotten with them. In general, their existence appears to participate more of sensation than reflection. To this must be ascribed their disposition to sleep when abstracted from their diversions, and unemployed in labour. An animal whose body is at rest, and who does not reflect, must be disposed to sleep of course. Comparing them by their faculties of memory, reason, and imagination, it appears to me, that in memory they are equal to the whites; in reason much inferior, as think one could scarcely be found capable of tracing and comprehending the investigations of Euclid; and that in imagination they are dull, tasteless, and anomalous. It would be unfair to follow them to Africa for this investigation. We will consider them here, on the same stage with the whites, and where the facts are not apocryphal on which a judgment is to be formed.It will be right to make great allowances for the difference of condition, of education, of conversation, of the sphere in which they move. Many millions of them have been brought to, and born in America. Most of them indeed have been confined to tillage, to their own homes, and their own society: yet many have been so situated, that they might have availed themselves of the conversation of their masters; many have been brought up to the handicraft arts, and from that circumstance have always been associated with the whites. Some have been liberally educated, and all have lived in countries where the arts and sciences are cultivated to a considerable degree, and have had before their eyes samples of the best works from abroad. The Indians, with no advantages of this kind, will often carve figures on their pipes not destitute of design and merit. They will crayon out an animal, a plant, or a country, so as to prove the existence of a germ in their minds which only wants cultivation. They astonish you with strokes of the most sublime oratory; such as prove their reason and sentiment strong, their imagination glowing and elevated. But never yet could I find that a black had uttered a thought above the level of plain narration; never see even an elementary trait, of painting or sculpture. In music they are more generally gifted than the whites with accurate ears for tune and time, and they have been found capable of imagining a small catch. Whether they will be equal to the composition of a more extensive run of melody, or of complicated harmony, is yet to be proved. Misery is often the parent of the most affecting touches in poetry. -- Among the blacks is misery enough, God knows, but no poetry. Love is the peculiar r&oe;strum of the poet. Their love is ardent, but it kindles the senses only, not the imagination. Religion indeed has produced a Phyllis Whately; but it could not produce a poet. The compositions published under her name are below the dignity of criticism. The heroes of the Dunciad are to her, as Hercules to the author of that poem.​