Obama Campaign Promise: Repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell -- At Hand?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_Nick4444, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    The Human Rights Campaign website is tonight awash with hope and joy --

    10/10/2009
    WASHINGTON – The Human Rights Campaign, the nation’s largest lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) civil rights organization, released the following statement tonight after President Barack Obama spoke at the 13th Annual National Dinner.
    "Tonight, President Obama told LGBT Americans that his commitment to ending discrimination in the military, in the workplace and for loving couples and their families is 'unwavering.' He made it crystal clear that he is our strongest ally in this fight, that he understands and, in fact, encourages our activism and our voice even when we’re impatient with the pace of change. But these remarks weren’t just for us, they were directed to all Americans who share his dream and ours of a country where “no one is denied their basic rights, in which all of us are free to live and love as we see fit.”
    "And we heard unequivocally about the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell: 'I am working with the Pentagon, its leadership and members of the House and Senate to end this policy. I will end Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. That is my commitment to you.'


    HRC | Statement by Human Rights Campaign President Joe Solmonese&#59; President Obama Addresses LGBT Community at Human Rights Campaign 13th Annual National Dinner

    but, not so fast --

    According to National Security Adviser James Jones, President Obama will tackle the politically radioactive issue of repealing the military's "don't ask/don't tell" ban "at the right time". Jones continued, "I don't think it's going to be-it's not years, but I think it will be teed up appropriately" according to CNN.
    To some this revelation will inspire rage. Conservatives will roll out the tired arguments about morale and unity that have been around since the battle to de-segregate the military six decades ago and the outlandish stereotypes that assume homosexuals are uncontrollably animalistic. Liberals, on the other hand will complain that no matter a President's want or desire, some events-some matters pronounce themselves as urgent with no regard for convenience. The plight of homosexuals in the military and society at large qualifies as one such issue.


    An issue this President seems willing to ignore for as long as he can get away with it. Indeed, President Obama has already flipped and flopped on his promise to repeal D.O.M.A. and now seems ready to similarly backtrack on his promise to quickly erase "don't ask/ don't tell", a policy that promotes bias against homosexuals and led to the expulsion of 634 members of the U.S. Armed Forces last year alone. [emphasis added]

    For Obama, no hurry on don't ask, don't tell

    so, what will it be? we shall see ...:popcorn:
     
  2. D_Pubert Stabbingpain

    D_Pubert Stabbingpain Account Disabled

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    He is a very smart politician. There is no way we can know all the deals going on behind closed doors. Isn't Congress required for 1 of these? That means waiting for the right moment to deal with them. Common sense tells me that militarily, this is not the right time and perhaps he is waiting to do DOMA at the same time.

    Another thing to consider is that it appears he may very well have another Supreme Court nomination coming up next year. Getting as many people on the court is the most important legacy any president can leave behind.

    I say exercise some patience and give the guy a chance.
     
  3. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    I think gays went through a similar cycle of hope based on campaign promises, then disappointment when the "change" arrived by way of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy under lib Dem Clinton
     
  4. B_Mister Buildington

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    I hope to God that Don't Ask, Don't Tell is not repealed.

    Just in case of a draft. Think about it. Anyone willing to fuck another soldier in the showers could potentially be saving his own life. Seems like a great "out" to me. Even straight guys could take advantage of it, if they're committed enough to the idea.

    Does anyone know whether the policy applies to bisexuals, or only homosexuals?
     
  5. LeeEJ

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    :rolleyes: x 1000. I've seen a few straight guys try to use "don't ask, don't tell" to try to get out of the military, too. Being gay is tolerated more than people seem to think, but the knowledge of someone's homosexuality still hangs like a guillotine being held by anyone looking for an excuse to kick somebody out.

    Anyway, no matter what side anyone's on, I'm amazed that they thought that such a policy change would have happened already. Has the nation's political awareness been so completely infected by ADD? Sheesh...
     
  6. midlifebear

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    I watched Obama's address to the Equal Rights Campaign folks yesterday. Heard every word. Seems to me he's rather committed to getting rid of the Defense of Marriage Act. He seemed rather intent when he said it. He was also very pro gay rights pointing out being gay is not a life-style, but just a normal part of life. And he promised to get rid of the Don't Ask Don't Tell ASAP (that doesn't mean tomorrow, but when as soon as it is possible to be a slam dunk). It's rather sad that Nick of the Sixes cannot focus on positive things in his life and the world around him. He's far too preoccupied with tearing down anything that doesn't fit his odd schema of reality. Maybe his physicians have just given up trying to find the right drugs to help him simply because, like me, they find him so pathetically annoying.
     
  7. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    the question arises -- you were around when that other lib dem (Clinton) made the demagogic promises to the gullible gays

    were you happy with those results?

    why would it be any different now?
     
  8. midlifebear

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    It's obvious, Nicky o' the sixes that you prefer to color your life without any sense of hope. I suppose it's easier for you to expect nothing. By expecting nothing you are never surprised. No surprises, no pain. No pain, life is a wonderful monochromatic dull world for you where you can quote mini epiphanies from dead poets that have nothing to do with the real world around you. It must be fun convincing yourself that you're so adroit and informed. Truth is, kid, you're tiresome and tend to blather than actually make a solid observation about . . . well, anything. Obama isn't Clinton. Somehow you have failed to recognize this. If you're unable to make such a simple distinction between the two gentlemen, just imagine what other canyons of ignorance you must suffer.
     
  9. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    we shall see ...
     
  10. chamisaguy

    chamisaguy Active Member

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    a "few straight guys" checking the "I'm gay" box to get out of a potential draft or out of the military doesn't begin to compare with the thousands of valuable and patriotic and necessary men and women who have been and are still being discharged (in the middle of two wars no less) because of the DADT law and policy! Sixteen years of suffering this insult and damage seem plenty long enough to me to think "such a policy change would have happened already."

    While the overturn has to come from Congress, Obama could have stopped the hemorrhaging by an Executive Order to the military commanders to cease taking action and suspend separations until the DADT "work the Administration is doing to get this reversed by Congress" comes through. I've read links where there is sufficient agreement among the military high commands to open up our armed forces to gay, lesbian, and bi people. And there are plenty of anecdotes from serving and prior military members who say their colleagues in arms don't really give a damn for the most part about one's sexual orientation. But still the outing and discharges go on. It's time for a change.

    Now call me when Obama stops talking and actually does something about this.
     
    #10 chamisaguy, Oct 11, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
  11. LeeEJ

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    Such an executive order won't be taken lightly, and we both know that. And, like you said, Congress is the branch that needs to overturn it, not the White House.

    I think it's long overdue, too, but something like this needs as much support as possible or it's going to fail.

    Hell, it took longer to get a new vendor to handle the washers & dryers in my building (actually, we're still stuck with the old company :mad:).
     
  12. Dave NoCal

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    Don't get me wrong. I'm in favor of repealing DADT and DOMA ten years ago. However, part of how we got DADT was that Clinton didn't have the cards to successfully pull off allowing gays to openly serve. This is the compromise we wound up with. I'm thinking/hoping that Obama is stealthy and working behind the scenes to get this accomplished. If you look at the whole health care reform issue, he has been roundly criticized (by myself included) for not getting more forcefully into the debate over the summer. Yet, it is now looking more possible that the new law will include a public option to compete with the pure evil insurance companies and thoe wackos (on Medicare) at the townhall meetings are nowhere in sight.
    We shall see. What I can say is I will contribute no more money until SOMETHING actually happens.
    Dave
     
  13. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    I see some of us are beginning to get it ...
     
  14. D_Pubert Stabbingpain

    D_Pubert Stabbingpain Account Disabled

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    Yep, Obama is a politician first and foremost despite the fact that he screams no more of the same. He has been "on the stump" for months for health care. To me, it is the same old "I promise you this" but he never gives specifics. Why? His strength, other than as a politician, is as a visionary. His vision, and only his vision, is why he received the Nobel Peace Prize. He delegates the "How" to others. This is the huge mistake he made with Congress that started all the rumors at town halls. However, as I said above and Dave says here, we have no idea the deals being made out of public view. Perhaps the repeal of DADT will be combined with a request for 40k more Afghan troops. Sadly, it is the same old way many laws are made in the U.S. so no one sees it coming but perhaps some good can come out of this [Afghanistan war] if he does something like that.
     
  15. LeeEJ

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    ????? Okay, THAT is a stretch... :rolleyes:

    If things aren't moving quickly enough for you, then take over his job and do it.
     
  16. RockNRoll

    RockNRoll New Member

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    hi, i've been lurking on this site off and on for a good 7 years or so and this is the first post of mine on here that i can really think of. this is one of the few places that i come to that has a pretty prevalent gay voice so i wanted to hear your thoughts on this issue.

    politically speaking i'm pretty moderate and try to see both sides of issues. i was moderate-left durring bush's administration and i seem to be leaning towards the right now for obama's. i never really had an opinion on this issue even though i'm an army veteran. i have to admit i'm a bit annoyed by this new promise. i believe that the majority of gay americans who really want to serve are serving now. i also know that the military is pretty homophobic. i was in the infantry which probably might be more so than the rest of the army, so maybe my view is off. i see this as hurting more people than helping, infact i dont know if this will help much if at all?
    hate crimes will most likely erupt in retaliation and i dont believe there will be an increase in enlistment. my experiences involving DADT were that, unless you had photographic or sworn proof of witnessing the physical act by another, they would laugh at you for using as an excuse to leave. this was also in peacetime when recruitment wasn't a priority.

    and its not that i dont believe that gays should be in the military, but i think the issue isnt being given the proper respect and sensitivity that it merits. the military world is much different than the civilian world. i see this purely as a political move so that obama isnt getting as much flack for not back gay marriage, which should be the real issue for gay rights. and honestly, that really irritates me.

    i know alot of you have different views and experiences on this, chamisaguy mentioned that outings and discharges are still regular, so please i'd love an intelligent discourse on this and some other views and experiences shared.
     
  17. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    interesting you would post this

    shortly after I signed off a while ago, the very thought occurred to me, given that I had posted this earlier, in a different thread:

    who is to decide what is better?

    that was another idea behind our system -- that discourse, thought, and agreement would move us, as a society, rather than having it imposed upon us by government

    so, would it be a good idea to go forward with the idea, if our men and women in uniform, are not up to it?



     
    #17 B_Nick4444, Oct 11, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
  18. FuzzyKen

    FuzzyKen New Member

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    The only way that this will be successfully done is if it is done by Presidential Executive Order. We have a legal precedent that was set under the administration of Dwight Eisenhower for the racial integration of the Armed Services. At that time if you research historically what is really sad was that basically all the same arguments were being made against racial integration that are now being made against integration based on sexual orientation.

    Anyone bigoted enough to believe that every gay male or female is going to attack or create problems in a communal shower situation is simply not living in current times and does not understand the basics of UCMJ. In the military, the code of personal conduct is far more strict than in civilian life. The laws already exist within that system to prevent unwarranted and unwanted sexual contact either heterosexual or homosexual in nature.

    Many problems took place in the beginning when racial integration happened. Over time they were all dealt with and today for the most part racial heritage is not an issue. The same will happen in time with sexual orientation.

    The United States is one of few remaining civilized countries that do not accept openly gay people for military service. One that has had an active recruiting program for gay Israeli citizens has been the Israeli Massad.

    This is one of the toughest and most brutal military groups of all time.

    My laugh in this is to wonder if Barak Obama has the courage to sign an executive order rather than just trying to "negotiate" until what we have is simply another verson of DADT with different words that just looks a lot better.

    Time will tell. . . . .
     
  19. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    So, they're willing to go on the front lines to die for our country but not up to standing next to a person who is openly gay? I'm not sure if I should roll my eyes or laugh at that really bad argument. Perhaps both?
    :rolleyes: :rofl:
     
  20. D_Pubert Stabbingpain

    D_Pubert Stabbingpain Account Disabled

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    I voted for him but I fear that as his base electorate falls away from him due to a myriad of political compromises, he will be another 1 term Dem Pres.
     
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