Obama Caves

[dandelion]

I think what you say about the distribution of parties left/right is correct, though I don't understand why you don't think the Tea Party is naturally rightist.

The news I have seen associates the tea party with republicans, who are 'right'?

In the Uk the right wing is supposedly the conservative party and the left labour. But the right are often quite hot on civil liberties issues, perhaps because they see them as personal freedoms for themselves. Anyway, I regard this inclination as 'left'. Obviously the US tea party is a side issue to the UK media, but what I have seen suggests some of the grass roots followers are interested in this same kind of personal liberty. I got the impression the alignment with republicans was partly fortuitous because the Tea party believed in less government intervention while the republicans believed in lower taxes, and the two at least are not contradictions. Then, a number of people seem to have hijacked the fundamental notion of rebellion expressed in the tea party and grafted on various demands which i would regard as extreme right.

Well, those Lefties have nowhere else to go.

In the Uk they went to liberal and labour lost the election. Any US parallel?

 

[Bbucko]

In the Uk they went to liberal and labour lost the election. Any US parallel?

None. Whether we like it or not, the US is stuck with a two-party system. Occasional "protest" candidates (like Ross Perot or Ralph Nader) act as spoilers rather than representing an actual, viable option.

As I recall, the Tea Party was rolled out before Obama's inauguration as a constant, shrill distraction by a bunch of sore losers: they were terrified by him even before he took power. Populist opportunists like Limbaugh, Beck and Palin jumped on to a bandwagon driven by Dick Armey's FreedomWorks, a reactionary group he founded once he retired from Congress in 2003.

The concepts of populism and "landed gentry" are highly contradictory, which is just one of many reasons why the left/right parallels between Europe and the US don't work very well. Politics in the US are infested with "Identity" brought about by the toxic "Culture Wars", which is why it's practically unthinkable for someone to be a black (or gay) Republican, or a Christian Fundamentalist Democrat (especially in the south and west).

The parties also went through a serious realignment in the 1960s, when Republican strongholds like New England went Democratic as quickly as the Dixiecrats switched to Republicanism. Civil rights victories had much to do with this, with all the racial and sexist implications suggested. Ronald Reagan's bald-faced embrace of the Moral Majority sealed the deal.

Likewise, Republican propaganda regarding "tax and spend" Liberal Democrats has been swallowed completely by a startlingly high proportion of the electorate, who seem to have quickly forgotten the irresponsibility of Republican "cut and spend": they are complete fiscal frauds with no intention of reducing either the size of government nor the deficits they created by their policies.

Anyone surprised that the Democrats have no spine are delusional. Clinton, who campaigned on a pro-gay rights platform gave us DADT and DOMA for crissakes! The last Democrat with a real spine was LBJ, and his recalcitrance over Viet Nam caused him to bow out of attempting a second elected term. Obama's a Democrat. Why is that news to anybody?

If there were any possibility of living overseas again, I'd do so in a heartbeat. American politics sicken my stomach.

 

[maxcok]

By now, it is obvious to all that you SO want me. Seriously, you think Obama is swell. I think he's an idiot. We disagree and that's not a valid reason for you to personally attack moi.

Can you read? I hardly think he's "swell", hardly anyone else does either right now.

What part of this do you not understand?

Since you never have anything of any substance to contribute to this forum, but only hurl turd bombs at "Boi" Obama, why don't you just 'sashay' your little racist ass right out of here once and for all.

I don't see why not, max.
We'll probably be distracted anyway.

Yes, I think I can scare up a few 'distractions' among the local yokels.
After all, what good is a revolution without a few dalliances along the way?
You do know how to foxtrot, don't you?

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

You do know how to foxtrot, don't you?

Sigh.
Yes, I guess I do, max.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Well, it looks as if some Democrats found a set of balls. At least in the House.
They just voted against the tax compromise. More than 50 Democrats in the House are standing their ground to only approve tax cuts for those who make less than $250K and not support the compromise. Nancy Pelosi has also backed them by saying the House will not even consider a vote on their floor for the tax compromise. Did anyone expect this? I sure as hell didn't.

 

[D_Harvey Schmeckel]

The disgust expressed by Obama towards his base yesterday will reverberate for the next couple of years. Clinton was a lot more subtle about triangulation and never overtly treated progressives like scum. I'd hoped that Rahm Emanuel and Robert Gibbs were speaking out of turn when they abused and insulted the majority of Democratic voters. Now it seems that they were only expressing the attitudes of their president. I'd like to see the hit his approval ratings take over this; he deserves to go WAY under 50% with Democrats. Maybe rich Republicans will forgive his "Kenyan birth" and "socialist agenda" in thanks for the huge gift he just gave them. A lot of good that will do him after throwing away the goodwill of the majority of people who voted for him.

 

[TraceMan]

Hmmmmm, I am Glad that 0bozo is being ass fucked!.......he is a ameteur playing a pro`s game, everyone knew he would cave he`s a Liberal they always cave, you Liberals act tough but no one respects you beacause all you do is complain, Tax and Spend, you freaking losers, you are probably on some kind of welfare or handouts, real men do not need the Government, they need the govmt to get the FUCK out of the way, just look at California you Liberal tools!

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Looks like one of our.... ahem, "newbies" is bound to have a short stay around here.

 

[maxcok]

Hmmmmm, I am Glad that 0bozo is being ass fucked!.......he is a ameteur playing a pro`s game, everyone knew he would cave he`s a Liberal they always cave, you Liberals act tough but no one respects you beacause all you do is complain, Tax and Spend, you freaking losers, you are probably on some kind of welfare or handouts, real men do not need the Government, they need the govmt to get the FUCK out of the way, just look at California you Liberal tools!

Wow. Thanks for adding such educated and enlightened comments to the discussion. I can't help noticing this is YOUR FIRST EVER POST AT THE SITE?! Interesting. So who are you really, and what's your motivation?

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Dropping out of school is never a good idea.

Look what happens to you later in life.

Hmmmmm, I am Glad that 0bozo is being ass fucked!.......he is a ameteur playing a pro`s game, everyone knew he would cave he`s a Liberal they always cave, you Liberals act tough but no one respects you beacause all you do is complain, Tax and Spend, you freaking losers, you are probably on some kind of welfare or handouts, real men do not need the Government, they need the govmt to get the FUCK out of the way, just look at California you Liberal tools!

 

[maxcok]

Well, it looks as if some Democrats found a set of balls. At least in the House.
They just voted against the tax compromise. More than 50 Democrats in the House are standing their ground to only approve tax cuts for those who make less than $250K and not support the compromise. Nancy Pelosi has also backed them by saying the House will not even consider a vote on their floor for the tax compromise. Did anyone expect this? I sure as hell didn't.

I'm not holding my breath. I'm all for a revolt against Obama and all his needless and premature concessions. I would love to see congressional Democrats start standing up against their own party leader on core principles and pull him back from the right. I expect what's more likely is there will be some political posturing over the estate tax or other drop-in-the-bucket items, and in the end the plan will pass essentially as is. I hope I am wrong. One can always 'hope' . . . .

 

[B_VinylBoy]

I'm not holding my breath. I'm all for a revolt against Obama and all his needless and premature concessions on core principles, even if it splits the Democratic party at this point. I expect what's more likely is there will be some political posturing over the estate tax or other drop-in-the-bucket items, and in the end the plan will pass essentially as is. I hope I am wrong. One can always 'hope' . . . .

We've all learned not to get too excited when some Democrats in Congress decides to get a little tough. They've had plenty of moments where they could, but instead took the route of compromise much to the chagrin of the progressives in the party. Perhaps this is all grandstanding in the House as well. We all know that many of the Democrats who are there now will no longer be there come January, and this could just be Custer's Last Stand before they're sent out to pasture.

Or, if we really want to consider every possible angle... perhaps all of this compromising was Obama's plan to begin with? We can all replay a lot of the campaign speeches he made during his presidential run. Obama's stances on Bush's economic policies were obviously more in tune with progressives back then. And we all know when people get into Congress, even they realize that they can't simply run amuck getting exactly what they want. Regardless if many Democrats, and especially progressives, are not happy with the way Obama has chosen to compromise repeatedly with his opposition, we can obviously see why as a campaign strategy for 2012 why he does it. Perhaps it has always been his intention to do things like this in hopes that the majorities in the House and/or Senate would fight back and strengthening his own position for negotiations? And maybe, now that many Democrats are on their way out in roughly a month's time they're finally figuring that out?

But who knows? I just like thinking about all of the angles so I can be prepared for the outcome, regardless of how screwy it may be. :wink:

 

[b.c.]

Well, it looks as if some Democrats found a set of balls. At least in the House.
They just voted against the tax compromise. More than 50 Democrats in the House are standing their ground to only approve tax cuts for those who make less than $250K and not support the compromise. Nancy Pelosi has also backed them by saying the House will not even consider a vote on their floor for the tax compromise. Did anyone expect this? I sure as hell didn't.

I kinda expected it, if they're in tune with what their constituency back home is feeling, and assuming the comments here over the last 48 hours to be an accurate snapshot of the current "left of center" sentiment.

But whether they'll prove themselves to have the balls to stand their ground, who the hell knows? Kinda late to grow a pair, but better late....

 

[TomCat84]

Hmmmmm, I am Glad that 0bozo is being ass fucked!.......he is a ameteur playing a pro`s game, everyone knew he would cave he`s a Liberal they always cave, you Liberals act tough but no one respects you beacause all you do is complain, Tax and Spend, you freaking losers, you are probably on some kind of welfare or handouts, real men do not need the Government, they need the govmt to get the FUCK out of the way, just look at California you Liberal tools!

*Sigh* :buttkick:

 

[Countryguy63]

Did he really cave and give the repubs everything they wanted, or did he just compromise and leave the wealthy in?

Did he do what he and his advisors thought was the best thing for the american public?

 

[maxcok]

. . . . But who knows? I just like thinking about all of the angles so I can be prepared for the outcome, regardless of how screwy it may be. :wink:

You may be overthinking this. It is what it is, I'm afraid. The House 'vote' was a preliminary voice vote only.

Ah, but 'hope' springs eternal. :wink:

 

[TomCat84]

Ah, but 'hope' springs eternal. :wink:

naw, thats just gas

 

[maxcok]

^ Then it must be facetious gas, cause I'm not feelin it.

 

[SilverTrain]

Did he really cave and give the repubs everything they wanted, or did he just compromise and leave the wealthy in?

Did he do what he and his advisors thought was the best thing for the american public?

Interesting query.

Obama has made reference to the fact that it's a long game. You can play for the short term, or the bigger picture.

I'm waiting, watching, listening.

 

[TomCat84]

I'm beginning to regret my vote for Obama over Hillary. *sigh* She would most definitely not have taken this shit. You can rest assured that she would have used all 60 votes.