Obama Caves

[D_Davy_Downspout]

Well at least it's clear now that you weren't interested in having a debate.

I've asked direct questions and you've thrown up your hands. I've typed up an entire post in a polite manner, and you're still not interested in engaging.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Well at least it's clear now that you weren't interested in having a debate.

Always interested... just not with you at this point.

I've asked direct questions and you've thrown up your hands. I've typed up an entire post in a polite manner, and you're still not interested in engaging.

Typical of the blowhard who would translate my actions into "giving up". Just like last time. Prematurely beating your chest and touting a victory over something that never happened, like a guy who shoots his load ten seconds after entry.

One post of supposed politeness doesn't equate into a complete reversal of an attitude that you've reared towards myself and others for a year. On top of that, you've avoided the mass majority of my questions, then hypocritically claim that I've done the same. The same way you can't tell the difference between your own statements ("Obama is conservative" versus "Obama is a conservative"), you also don't know the difference between a debate and a confrontation either. I've given you many chances to really formulate an argument that isn't riddled with half truths and distorted facts that require more prognostication instead of verification and you've failed at that miserably. You can't discuss a complete political issue honestly. You can't put aside your own prejudices, look at an argument from different angles and come up with any conclusion that embraces what has actually transpired or is currently happening, and that's blatantly apparent in this thread for everyone to see. I require that from those who I choose to debate with even if we do tend to agree on various political issues. Until you learn how to do that, you don't deserve any of my attention or energy. And that's where this will end. I'll continue to support Obama and you'll continue to think he's "shit". We're done here.

 

[deleted15807]

FRE some interesting ones from The Daily Show:


Fox News Fear Imbalance

Sarah Palin Gender Card

It Get's Worse

 

[FRE]

The Daily Show does a good job of showing how ridiculous John McCain is regarding DADT and exposing his hypocrisy; I hope that it influences enough people to make a difference. However, I personally prefer a more straight [pardon the expression] forward and objective presentation of the facts; it's more efficient.

After what I've gone through, I have absolutely zero sympathy with anti-gay people. When I was 20, during an extremely difficult period of my life, I was outed to my parents and, for all practical purposes, disowned; it was a very ugly scene. I've known other guys who have had similar or even worse experiences. Obviously it is unfair and unjust; no one should have to experience such things. That is why for years I worked for equality and, I believe, made a significant contribution toward achieving equality. So, when people like John McCain come along and intentionally promulgate lies to prolong unjust situations, I want to see them totally defeated and publicly humiliated for the pain they have caused to others. That might cause other evil minded people to think twice before supporting injustice.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

Always interested... just not with you at this point.



Typical of the blowhard who would translate my actions into "giving up". Just like last time. Prematurely beating your chest and touting a victory over something that never happened, like a guy who shoots his load ten seconds after entry.

One post of supposed politeness doesn't equate into a complete reversal of an attitude that you've reared towards myself and others for a year. On top of that, you've avoided the mass majority of my questions, then hypocritically claim that I've done the same. The same way you can't tell the difference between your own statements ("Obama is conservative" versus "Obama is a conservative"), you also don't know the difference between a debate and a confrontation either. I've given you many chances to really formulate an argument that isn't riddled with half truths and distorted facts that require more prognostication instead of verification and you've failed at that miserably. You can't discuss a complete political issue honestly. You can't put aside your own prejudices, look at an argument from different angles and come up with any conclusion that embraces what has actually transpired or is currently happening, and that's blatantly apparent in this thread for everyone to see. I require that from those who I choose to debate with even if we do tend to agree on various political issues. Until you learn how to do that, you don't deserve any of my attention or energy. And that's where this will end. I'll continue to support Obama and you'll continue to think he's "shit". We're done here.

I've attempted to have an calm, rational debate with you several times, and every time you refuse to do so. You can claim that I was mean first, or you can say you don't like my attitude, or you can say too little too late, or you can say that I haven't gone the extra mile, or you can say I am being ignorant, or you can say any number of things.

The truth of the matter is, I'm not going to have a discussion where I'm trying to be polite and you absolutely refuse to. It doesn't matter what your reason is. You refuse to argue like an adult.

If you want to count this as a win, fine, I hope it makes you feel good about yourself.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

You're really annoying, sinwin.
Last damn time... You got a LONG way to go before anyone here would be convinced that Obama is just another "Bush". Loose referendum to the Patriot Act and references to shady wartime practices that every single leader of a nation has engaged in from the beginning of time doesn't help you one bit. A handful of political actions do not make two political figures anymore similar than a cat & a dog. Any complete analysis of Bush & Obama's actions within their first two years in office would easily dispel the mass majority of rhetoric about the two being "similar" that you could ever have. I would like to think you're intelligent enough to understand what that means without me having to create a 20,000 ASCII letter post with several links to websites because I know you're going to ignore it or bigotedly brush it off anyhow. You did the last time we "debated", you instantly started doing it even with the one or two links I provided on this thread, and I'm not going through the trouble. Fuck that. So if you want me to "debate" with you, get to work.

And BTW, whether or not someone likes, supports, or detests the President isn't an argument one can "win". Just thought I'd let you know.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

You're really annoying, sinwin.
Last damn time... You got a LONG way to go before anyone here would be convinced that Obama is just another "Bush".

You speak for the board?

Loose referendum to the Patriot Act and references to shady wartime practices that every single leader of a nation has engaged in from the beginning of time doesn't help you one bit.

I actually never mentioned the Patriot Act until you brought it up, and I was referring to practices that are outside the scope of it.

A handful of political actions do not make two political figures anymore similar than a cat & a dog. Any complete analysis of Bush & Obama's actions within their first two years in office would easily dispel the mass majority of rhetoric about the two being "similar" that you could ever have.

Again, I never said they were the same, I said that Obama was not much better. That's an entirely different statement.

I would like to think you're intelligent enough to understand what that means without me having to create a 20,000 ASCII letter post with several links to websites because I know you're going to ignore it or bigotedly brush it off anyhow.

You continuously mischaracterize my argument in almost every post, so I don't know that I can give you the same benefit of the doubt.

You did the last time we "debated", you instantly started doing it even with the one or two links I provided on this thread, and I'm not going through the trouble. Fuck that. So if you want me to "debate" with you, get to work.

Ah yes, once again you have no responsibility to do anything to support your argument. You can just complain about what you want me to say, and my tone or word choice for endless pages.

And BTW, whether or not someone likes, supports, or detests the President isn't an argument one can "win". Just thought I'd let you know.

That's completely obvious. Which is why I would never have that argument. However, whether or not his actions are conservative or detrimental to progress is a debatable point.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

You speak for the board?

Stop acting stupid and pay attention to what's going on in this thread. Do you see anyone else who has contributed over the last week agreeing with you?

I actually never mentioned the Patriot Act until you brought it up, and I was referring to practices that are outside the scope of it.

Your argument in regards to Obama is exactly the same as last year, and your referencing to practices that aren't specifically listed in the Patriot Act are in many way related to it. This is more of that intellectual dishonesty seeping into your arguments... stop acting naive and argue like the adult that you claim that I'm not.

You continuously mischaracterize my argument in almost every post, so I don't know that I can give you the same benefit of the doubt.

It's easy to misinterpret what you're saying when the wording constantly changes within it. Do I have to remind you again about the many gaffes you've made thus far? Obama is conservative? Obama is a conservative?

Ah yes, once again you have no responsibility to do anything to support your argument.

Last time I checked, we've been at this for 6 days and you haven't provided a single link in response to a single thing you've ever said to me in this thread. Yet I did provide at least one that held lots of information in defense to my argument, in which you quickly dismissed as being "not impressive" in a cowardly fashion and never referred to it again. That's because your main focus isn't trying to put a real value onto what Obama has done since becoming President... you just want to say that he's "shit" since his actions aren't as hard left as you'd want them to be and refer to vague policies that only the paranoidal would ever obsess over for support.

You can just complain about what you want me to say, and my tone or word choice for endless pages.

Did you look in a mirror when you typed that?

That's completely obvious. Which is why I would never have that argument. However, whether or not his actions are conservative or detrimental to progress is a debatable point.

Yes... that part is debatable and you still have yet to prove it. His actions may not be as progressive as you'd want them to be (which in reality is your real gripe and nothing else), but he's far from what the general consensus would consider to be conservative. So instead of talking about how I can't "debate" with you, get to work trying to prove your fruitless point. You're really starting to bore me now.

 

[FRE]

I shall try to unsubscribe to this thread. Considering that the message exchanges are between only two people, it would make more sense to correspond via private messages.

 

[deleted15807]

The Daily Show does a good job of showing how ridiculous John McCain is regarding DADT and exposing his hypocrisy; I hope that it influences enough people to make a difference. However, I personally prefer a more straight [pardon the expression] forward and objective presentation of the facts; it's more efficient.

True but no one is doing it that I know of.

After what I've gone through, I have absolutely zero sympathy with anti-gay people. When I was 20, during an extremely difficult period of my life, I was outed to my parents and, for all practical purposes, disowned; it was a very ugly scene. I've known other guys who have had similar or even worse experiences. Obviously it is unfair and unjust; no one should have to experience such things. That is why for years I worked for equality and, I believe, made a significant contribution toward achieving equality. So, when people like John McCain come along and intentionally promulgate lies to prolong unjust situations, I want to see them totally defeated and publicly humiliated for the pain they have caused to others. That might cause other evil minded people to think twice before supporting injustice.

John McCain is in a limousine headed straight towards irrelevance. It's hard to believe where he was 10 years ago and where he is now. His nomination of Sarah Palin was the beginning of the end. We can forever thank him for the gift of Sarah Palin to America.

 

[Speculator]

You're really annoying, sinwin.
Last damn time... You got a LONG way to go before anyone here would be convinced that Obama is just another "Bush". Loose referendum to the Patriot Act and references to shady wartime practices that every single leader of a nation has engaged in from the beginning of time doesn't help you one bit. A handful of political actions do not make two political figures anymore similar than a cat & a dog. Any complete analysis of Bush & Obama's actions within their first two years in office would easily dispel the mass majority of rhetoric about the two being "similar" that you could ever have. I would like to think you're intelligent enough to understand what that means without me having to create a 20,000 ASCII letter post with several links to websites because I know you're going to ignore it or bigotedly brush it off anyhow. You did the last time we "debated", you instantly started doing it even with the one or two links I provided on this thread, and I'm not going through the trouble. Fuck that. So if you want me to "debate" with you, get to work.

And BTW, whether or not someone likes, supports, or detests the President isn't an argument one can "win". Just thought I'd let you know.

Have you ever been part of a debate that hasn't degenerated into an internet slanging match?

I'm starting to see a pattern emerging with you and a couple of your left-wing chums.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Have you ever been part of a debate that hasn't degenerated into an internet slanging match?

Short answer - yes.
With people like you? Here's another short answer - No.

I'm starting to see a pattern emerging with you and a couple of your left-wing chums.

The pattern is one dreamed up based on your own fictional beliefs.
Because if you haven't noticed, sinwin is a liberal and one of the more progressive types on this board. Going by your logic, we shouldn't be bumping heads because for the 983298123701498247th time you still try to label me as a unwavering liberal... and yet sinwin and I still argue. We may have our differences, however, at the same time I would never equate what he says with the societal ignorance that spews out of your mouth. Try to figure out what that means before you try to inject more of your easily dismissive, binary level thinking into this thread.

 

[maxcok]

The pattern is one dreamed up based on your own fictional beliefs.

. . . . at the same time I would never equate what he says with the societal ignorance that spews out of your mouth. Try to figure out what that means before you try to inject more of your easily dismissive, binary level thinking into this thread.

Seconded.

. . . your left-wing chums.

 

[lurker37160]

I shall try to unsubscribe to this thread. Considering that the message exchanges are between only two people, it would make more sense to correspond via private messages.

LOL

 

[Pierced1953]

Some kind of deal had to be reached otherwise ALL the tax cuts would've expired and by default everyone would be paying more. It would've been pretty hectic on the job market and families with 2 working parents.

Basically the Republicans pushed the white house into a corner and gave them no choice. Not the best outcome, but I would say (even being a liberal) it is for the best to let the tax cuts continue.

Although cutting social security tax is laughable.....While we increase the deficit with more spending let's LOWER taxes.

Fixing the economy =

Lower taxes, increase spending

Brilliant

Yes, lower taxes increase spending.

no one was pushed in the corner, they just wanted to get home or to their mansions on private islands and to say they did something. When they return they will revise the bill anyway. It would have been better to let it expire, lower the taxes for middle and keep it the same for the wealthy. Now they will waste time and their good at that,they had two years.

Remember this starts a new year for campaigning, and their is noboby better than Obama at campaigning. All the bills passed at the last days before their fucking recess will be revised and waste time as usual. I pretty sure that Obama being in that wealthy class was doing it for himself and all the very rich leaders we have now thanks to fully corrupt gov.

Tell me how much you benifit if you make 80000 and bring home another 1600 with gas being 5 dollars a gallon with two cars for the family and inflation climbing as fast as the corruption in gov,at all levels.

We need more than a tea party.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

If we're lucky, what needs to happen will somehow actually happen; the American people will coalesce around the reform issue, and will undercut the oligarchs before their corrupt schemes finally bankrupt the nation.

If we're not lucky, we get to find out firsthand what it feels like when a great nation is crushed by the persistent excesses of its 'leaders'.