Obama, Clinton & Biden about-face on 'nuclear option'

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_starinvestor, Mar 16, 2010.

  1. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    YouTube - Obama and Democrats on Reconciliation/Nuclear Option 2005

    Shumer says it's a 'temper tantrum,' a way to change the rules, break the rules, misread constitution to get your way.

    Obama says this isn't what the founding fathers wanted

    Reid said filibuster was a check and balance on gov't power, nuclear option the arrogance of power

    Biden said nuclear option is an example of the 'arrogance of power' and a fundamental 'power grab'. And my personal favorite, "when the democrats get back power they won't make the kind of naked power-grab that repubs are..."

    Feinstein says it is the beginning of the end and will make its way to judicial, etc.

    Dodd - "tyranny of the majority"

    Clinton - 'nuclear option' a way to ignore the way the system should work, to ignore the constition. "Immediate gratification of the present president"

    Baucus - "The way democracy ends."

    My how the chiefs of the Democratic party have - in unison - performed an about-face and exposed the incomparable hypocricy of politics for everyone to see.

    At best, a disgrace.

    Ladies and gentlement, I give you the esteemed leaders of government...
     
  2. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    And the esteemed leaders of Government are about to accomplish something historic. Which side will you be on>?
    YouTube - Patriotism
     
  3. D_Catvade Longwick

    D_Catvade Longwick New Member

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    Its the nature of politics - earnest and strident criticsm in opposition and then once you get power you do everything possible to keep including lying and deceiving in order to keep it. Sad but true - never trust a politician...
     
  4. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    It will be historic, alright.
     
  5. D_Harvey Schmeckel

    D_Harvey Schmeckel New Member

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    The "nuclear option" has never been used to mean reconciliation, until Republicans have started to misuse the phrase dishonestly and misleadingly of late-- is there anything they've been honest about through this entire nightmare?

    Nuclear option - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  6. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    The nuclear option is essentially slang for reconciliation. Reconciliation is exactly what was occuring in 2005 when dems were filibustering Bush's judicial appointments.

    You're trying to make a play on words.

    Whatever you want to call it - a majority of 51 trumping the 3/5 majority req't.

    Not saying I'm for or against reconciliation - just pointing out the outright flip flopping on principles and complete reversal of a position on the 51-vote majority option by the leaders of the party.

    Pretty pathetic.
     
    #6 B_starinvestor, Mar 16, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  7. SilverTrain

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    Short answer: nope.
     
  8. sargon20

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    The ability to lie repeatedly en masse and on cue is a key trait. Always always 'on message'. If you can't do it you can't be a party member. The crown jewel will always be the spectacular lies used to invade Iraq. The sheer number of lies multiplied by the number of people that told them multiplied by how long they told them is simply astonishing. And to this day the lies continue.
     
  9. finsuptx

    finsuptx New Member

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    I swear to Christmas, Star, if you don't stop making sense and get back to your crackpot views, I'm going to go crazy! LOL.

    These people are politicians. They vote for things before they vote against them, and they are constantly either kissing babies or stealing their candy. Yeah, they all changed their tune, no doubt about it. But the Republicans got away with it, and now, so will the Democrats.

    The only thing I'm not for in the healthcare bill is the part where they want to fine employers if their employees receive gov't assistance for healthcare. That line of thinking should lead the gov't to fine itself for the thousands of U.S. military personnel with families who still have to have foodstamps to survive. Seems like another double standard by Uncle Sam to me.
     
  10. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    This thread isn't even worth a real response.
    Everyone knows that the "nuclear option" has absolutely nothing to do with reconciliation. In fact, if our beloved starinvestor wants to make it so after it was debunked in the news weeks ago, we can point out that our previously controlled Republican congress used reconciliation (ummm... I mean the "nuclear option") 5 times to pass legislation, including two tax cuts.

    Where was your outrage then, star? Oh, I forgot... your "boys" were in charge so you didn't give a fuck. :rolleyes:
     
  11. finsuptx

    finsuptx New Member

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    That's the point VB. Republicans used it for tax cuts, because they had no other option, now Democrats are going to use it for healthcare, because they have no option. The Republicans have historically used reconciliation more often, just as they have used the filibuster to the point of obscenity in the last year.

    Star has a valid point that everyone from Obama on down (in the current leadership of the majority) screamed that it was "evil, wrong, an afront to democracy" but suddenly it's okay, now. Simple, two-faced politicians changing their tune to suit their current argument.

    This is precicely why I advocated voting against every single incumbent. They were all there at the helm when they allowed Wall Street to crash the economy, and that says they weren't doing their jobs then. Why are millions of hardworking Americans out of jobs and these bafoons still have theirs?

    Vote out ALL incumbents! At the very least it will show the next batch of crooks, cheats and liars that their jobs are only safe if they actually do them.
     
  12. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    I'll repeat once again for the slow:

    It is the same exact thing that was occuring during those sound bites in the OP - reconciliation by republicans - over judicial appointments.

    The democrats were calling it the Nuclear Option back then.

    Also, as i stipulated, I don't have outrage over the maneuver of reconciliation. It is the BLATANT hypocrisy and lying by each and every one of those democratic leaders to serve their own needs.

    Lying and cheating are horrible unless its the democrats doing the lying and cheating.
     
    #12 B_starinvestor, Mar 16, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  13. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Even that comment I take it with a grain of salt.
    Every time reconciliation was used, whether it be a Democrat or Republican the circumstances, whether we want to adhere to them or not, were different.

    There's always the political lip service we see on camera and that screams nothing but hypocrisy on both sides. This, ironically, seems to be the only thing that starinvestor is interested in because he never wants to pay attention to the details. He's doing the same thing in the Obama/Watermelon thread too. All of it completely disingenuous.

    But there's also the action we should pay more attention to... in this case it's the voting records. Let's take the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003. Democrats may have said that it was "evil", but they still got two Democratic votes in the Senate and 7 more in the House. The Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 also received some Democratic support as well. But we all know what's going to happen with Health Care Reform. There will be absolutely no Senate Republican support, which coincides right along with their unrelenting use of the filibuster. Why? Because they just want to delay and obstruct as long as they can just so they can say the current administration "can't get anything done" come election time.

    Oh, and BTW, starinvestor... in the video you linked to, Obama never referred to reconciliation as the "nuclear option". Was this an oversight on your behalf or are you purposely being dishonest?
     
  14. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    And this is what I'll say to you, an obviously partisan bigot who refuses to read between the lines: ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

    Even with the bullshit spread on both sides about reconciliation or the supposed "nuclear option", when it came time to vote several of the bills pass by the GOP through reconciliation received Democratic support. Just like your phony-ass outrage on Dan Rather's comments in another thread, your incestuous relationship with Conservatism prevents you from paying attention to any of the details.

    And I'll repeat this to you slowly... OBAMA NEVER REFERRED TO RECONCILIATION AS THE NUCLEAR OPTION IN THE VIDEO YOU SOURCED. So if we want to keep it on that infantile level, why lie about that?
     
  15. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    You're missing the point. I don't care what you call it - nuclear option, reconciliation or a bowl of cereal. Obama said in the clip it was not good, and would change the Senate forever. It is now his strategy.

    It is bullshit and you know it. Stop inventing tangents and non-issues to deflect what is going on here.
     
  16. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Look whose talking about "non issues"?
    This whole thing about reconciliation being the "nuclear option" is a NON-ISSUE, yet you felt it necessary to make a thread about it. Do you make it a point to continually bring non-issues to this board on a regular basis? Follow your own advice, hypocrite.

    Also, stop picking and choosing when you decide you want to pay attention to the details. In the video you sourced, there were several incidents when some Democratic Senators referred to reconciliation as the "nuclear option". But here's where your bullshit is exposed to show just how dishonest you were - your point was NOT to refer to Democrats opposed to using reconciliation, but to illustrate how some Democrats gave the same lip service about "nuclear options" as being heard by certain members of the GOP today.

    Is it my fault that the video link you provided shows certain Democratic members NOT using or even referring to reconciliation as the "nuclear option"? No... but it is your fault for using inaccurate sources of internet media. So if you want to keep it on this simplistic level, trying to twist Obama's statements into one is bullshit. He never said "nuclear option", asshole. You're just as dishonest as everyone else in Congress.
     
  17. finsuptx

    finsuptx New Member

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    Who gives a damn what name you call it? The point is still the same. When the Republicans used it, the Democrats vilified it, JUST like the Repulicans are doing now. I don't know that I really want to defend Star here, because Lynn Cheney will come for my job, BUT.

    It seems to me the point is clear. Democrats decried reconciliation when they were against the Bills, but now suddenly, its perfectly acceptable. Like I've said, I'm for the healthcare bill (for the most part) but I'm never for double standards and two-faced politicians. I'm also never for calling someone names just because I can't find any other stones to throw in my argument.
     
  18. midlifebear

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    Starpooper: for once you won't find me diagreeing or outright despising you. Now for the challenge, do you think you can "keep it up" with regard to objective posts rather than pissing your name in the snow only for the christianist neo cons? If you can and do, I'll quit calling you Starpooper. :smile:

    EDIT: Who knows? Maybe the Elavil is working.
     
    #18 midlifebear, Mar 16, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  19. quercusone

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    You are mistaken. The reconciliation option being proposed is within current congressional rules. The Senate and House have already passed versions of a health care bill with the Senate getting the neccessary 60 votes to end debate and vote on the bill last fall. The Nuclear option talked about by Repubs in 2005 refereed to doing away with the 60 votes necessary end debate and move a bill in the Senate, or in that case judicial nominees to a floor vote.....where only a 51 vote majority would be needed. While the reconciliation maneuver being proposed by the Dems is not the best politics and smacks of desperation, it is not the same as what the Repubs were proposing.
     
  20. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    I'll get back to this, gotta run.
     
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