Obama Declassifies Bush Admin Torture Memos

Discussion in 'Politics' started by jason_els, Mar 22, 2009.

  1. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Well, well.... seems the Bush chickens are coming home to roost. Cheney's probably furious he didn't shred those documents before he left his command post aboard The Executor.
     
  2. pym

    pym New Member

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    Remember Jason.......if you question Things........it makes you a Yellow dog liberal. Who doesn't support the troops. Perhaps a supporter of the Axis of Weasel?
     
  3. treefarmer

    treefarmer New Member

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    The only bad thing about this is that Obama isn't using the memos to torture more terrorists.
     
  4. Skull Mason

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    So head slapping is "enhanced interrogation"'? Is that code for torture? Head slapping? I think that is fucking hilarious, some CIA operative slappin some could-be terrorist upside the head.

    YouTube - The Chris Rock Show: Smack Rampage
     
  5. Flashy

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    frankly, i think if they slapped Khalid Sheik Muhammed in the head a dozen times, and that proved to uncover, as it did a treasure trove of information about Al Qaieda, along with some sleep deprivation, playing loud music endlessly and yelling at him for hours on end, i don't really care.

    as long as they did not rip his fingernails out, or truly "torture" him, i do not really care.

    my mother is the most dyed in the wool liberal there ever was...she actually worked for Jimmy Carter's campaign, if you can believe that, and actually voted for Michael Dukakis...

    even she does not care about this topic, as long as they are not ripping out fingernails, or sticking needles in people's eyes, she does not care what they do to high value Al Qaeida targets.

    as she said to me the other day when we were discussing this topic at lunch she subscribes to the "Jack Bauer on 24" approach to "torture". she said she would hate to explain to the parents of kids in a school that was just blown up by terrorists, why she had a member of the terror cell in custody, who knew about the upcoming attacks and why she didn't waterboard him to get the info if that would have done it.

    this is an easy topic to discuss when viewed in a vacuum...but when viewed in the cold light of reality, and the consequences...things unfortunately become different
     
  6. splitface

    splitface New Member

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    lol sitting here, looking at the Recent Threads, I am all like how can somebody dlassify a bus, not to mention declassify one? Can you imagine a classified bus like sneaking around a city, only at night when no one can see it....
     
  7. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    I love Christopher Hitchens unconditionally.

    Chistopher Hitchens was a strong supporter of "W"'s pre-emptive invasion of Iraq, a stance I find abhorrent, but as I said, I still love him unconditionally. He's rigorously honest (as he sees it) and is rigorously learned and rational.




    Bill O'Reilly debates Hitchens on torture and waterboarding:

    YouTube - O'Reilly/Hitchens on torture and water-boarding



    For anyone getting into Christopher Hitchens, here is Hitch debating God with Sean Hannity:

    YouTube - Hitch vs. Sean on the existence of God



    and Hitchens discussing the "Rev" Falwell's death with Anderson Cooper:

    YouTube - Hitch on Falwell
     
  8. Phil Ayesho

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    Not true.

    Those who actually conducted the torture and spoken up have revealed that torture did not provide ONE piece of actionable information.

    Why? Because people being tortured will keep saying different things, trying desperately to find the ONE thing that will stop the torture.
    The things they spout are mostly fabricated, and self contradictory...

    The USEFUL information came from more sophisticated interrogation where the interrogator tries to develop sympathy in the detainee.

    The ONLY thing torture is good for is when you want people to confess to something.
    Even something they did not do.

    Like the inquisition.... NONE of the people garroted or burned alive were witches, in league with the devil, guilty of blasphemy.



    And, Flashy, I have to say that it is NEVER right to abandon your ethics in favor of expediency.
    Your position is worse that that... its the total lack of ethics in regards to how you treat other people.

    Violating our own constitutional principles simply because some folks want to kill us is worse that unethical;
    It being chickenshit.


    Either you stand for something...
    Or you resort to acting out of fear.

    With the former, even if you lose, you still win.
    With the later, even in winning, you have lost.
     
  9. Gl3nn

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    ^ what he said
     
  10. Skull Mason

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    head slapping?
     
  11. dong20

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    Preferably with a wet fish. :tongue:
     
  12. Calboner

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    Twenty-four and all those "ticking time bomb" scenarios are about the last thing that anyone should think of if they want to look at things "in the cold light of reality." For example, in such scenarios, it is always stipulated as part of the fiction that that there is a plot unfolding to commit some terrible act of violence against the innocent, that the person we are holding has information that would allow us to thwart the plot if we could get him to divulge that information, and that we have no other means of thwarting the plot. Further, and most preposterously, it is taken for granted that if only we inflict enough brutality on our captive, he will tell us the truth -- and we will (God knows how) know that he is telling the truth as soon as he tells us. To assume these things to be known a priori has nothing to do with reality at all. Try this scenario: there may or may not be a plot unfolding to commit some terrible act of violence against the innocent; we have captured someone who may or may not have information that would allow us to thwart the plot if we could get him to divulge it; if we torture him, he may or may not tell us things, some or all of which may be true and may be false; and we may or may not be able to tell whether he is telling the truth. I have never watched 24, so I don't know if the show ever deals with the consequences of torturing someone when it turns out that there was no plot, or there was a plot and this guy knew nothing about it, or this guy knew about it but everything that he told us was false; but if you want to be realistic, you should consider the consequences of getting such things wrong, because they are more likely to turn out wrong than right.
     
  13. trjnhrs9

    trjnhrs9 Member

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    The question I have is why are we declassifying anything related to this at all? Let's air our dirty laundry to the world? To what end?

    If the types of interrogations were inappropriate, create new rules of interrogation and let it be. Don't ad fuel to the fire for those who hate us already. In some cases, their methods of interrogation are probably much worse than anything we did, but they won't be telling on themselves, now will they? Instead they'll act indignant and the media will have a field day with their comments.

    Deal with this on a private basis and then show the world that our new methods of interrogation are humane.
     
  14. dong20

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    Your second paragraph goes a significant way toward providing answers for the questions asked in the first. :cool:
     
  15. Flashy

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  16. Flashy

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    I have never watched "24" either.

    my point was, considering the "ticking bomb" scenario is considered by most analysts to be implausible, that theory still covers most regular people's theories towards it, even if the "ticking bomb" theory was long ago dismissed by the intelligence community and various services all over the world.

    As i stated, my mother is on the far left of most issues...but even she comes down on the side of support for "torture" under the "ticking bomb" scenario, and in most other cases against known terrorists in general, in terms of things such as sleep deprivation, waterboarding, loud music, bright lights and yelling etc.

    the fact is that many terrorists were subjected to listening to Eminmen albums repeatedly, over and over for a day or two, and they found it to be unbearable...i find his music unbearable at all, but if that is the extent of what they are being subjected to, then i really do not have much sympathy.
     
  17. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    How did I know this was coming when I saw that link? LOL!! :biggrin1:
     
  18. transformer_99

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    That's another topic that has me concerned & worried ? A lot of those kids are going to turn out bad anyway ? Might as well find out which one's they are before they become adults ? That's just the violence aspect of it. Which one's are the white collar criminal types ? AIG executive offspring ?

    Map of School Shootings

    We are unable to keep up with a graphic view of school violence.

    violence snapshot
    School Violence 04/05 School Year
    School Violence 03/04 School Year
     
    #18 transformer_99, Mar 22, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2009
  19. trjnhrs9

    trjnhrs9 Member

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    (Your second paragraph goes a significant way toward providing answers for the questions asked in the first. :cool:)

    How so? So that our enemies can act indignant and our media can have a field day? I hope that isn't the case.
     
  20. faceking

    faceking Active Member

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    Provide one credible source for this.
     
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