Obama Eligibility Challenge Moves Forward

[Pitbull]

Your interpretation ...flawed, disgusting and repugnant .... The sad thing is, you don't even know it.

I know very well that you find people who disagree with you flawed, disgusting and repugnant.

I didn't realize that you were an esteemed constitutional scholar.

 

[Trinity]

Actually, it isn't.

Actually it is. (is a personal responsibility)

There's no Constitutional provision requiring any such thing. It doesn't say that someone must provide proof of any sort. It merely states that someone must be, "a natural born citizen." Hawaii says Obama is, has released an official document stating such, Congress certified the election so they believe he is as well, so it's a done deal.

Just because something isn't spelled out for you doesn't mean that a reasonable person would not expect personal responsibility. We both agree that there is a loophole in our process for verification of the qualifications required in the Constitution. However, there is a reasonable expectation that our leaders be forthcoming and above reproach. Obama's avoidance "just because of a loophole exists" demeans his presidency.

I think it ridiculous that birthers are angry that Obama's actually defending himself against their charges.

Obama has been asked to demonstrate he meets the qualification of being a Natural Born Citizen. Mr. Obama refuses to do that and asks for the American people to go by a scan of a unverified document posted on a third party website. That's ridiculous.

That's like a mugger getting angry that his victim is actually fighting back.

It's nothing like that. Obama is not a victim. The American voter is the victim if a candidate gets by on a loophole and then works the system on legal technicalities so they don't have to demonstrate they are eligible to serve.

You have to understand that even if, by some Twilight Zone circumstance, Obama was born abroad and by a woman other than Ann Dunham, he is still legally recognized as a natural born citizen. It doesn't matter if it's proven beyond any scientific means that he's the love child of Princess Margaret and the Emperor of Japan, Congress recognizes him as the legal President.

You say that as if it's a good thing. There is something wrong with our system if that is true. No party in control of congress should be able to put an ineligible candidate in place as Commander in Chief of our Military.

And the Quo Warranto process was put in place by the Congress.

Birthers really have a poor grasp of law in this instance and the various courts they have been thrown out of have affirmed that.

That's not true. It is uncharted waters. This is a massive undertaking and involves the highest office in the land. It is not expected to be simple or easy. Do you know how many lawsuits were brought to change major issues? Do you know how many years it took to get the right plaintiff...the right case to change major laws? Don't even mention changes to the constitution. Obama has not demonstrated he is a Natural Born Citizen and all you can claim is that a Democratically controlled congress prefers to ignore that. The Democrats put Obama on the ticket and it is in their interest not to verify the qualification.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

I know very well that you find people who disagree with you flawed, disgusting and repugnant.

No... I find YOU as well as you stance on this subject extremely flawed, disgusting and repugnant. Since when have you become plural?

I didn't realize that you were an esteemed constitutional scholar.

You're most certainly aren't, even if you fruitlessly pretend to be one on a penis site. You'd think after 60+ pages of this nonsense you would have convinced someone to see things your way. Either that, or it would have sank in your pea-sized mind that your arguments on the subject matter don't make any sense. But still, you sit here like the mentally battered mutt that you are, assuming the same, tired 6-year old "I know you are but what am I" argumentative stance you've engaged in for months. You're a joke.

Now go focus your energy on those who are willing to rewrite 60 pages of logical arguments for you to blindly discredit all because of your own deeply embedded mental bigotry and paranoia.

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

I didn't realize that you were an esteemed constitutional scholar.

Ann Coulter, a constitutional law expert (and probably your hero), has called the Birthers "cranks." Even this neocon bitch knows that you are crazy.

You've claimed to be smarter than everyone else on this thread. You have no idea how amusing we find you.

 

[jason_els]

Just because something isn't spelled out for you doesn't mean that a reasonable person would not expect personal responsibility. We both agree that there is a loophole in our process for verification of the qualifications required in the Constitution. However, there is a reasonable expectation that our leaders be forthcoming and above reproach. Obama's avoidance "just because of a loophole exists" demeans his presidency.

Not at all. Our court system is adversarial. Why should Obama help legitimize anyone suing him by acquiescing to the demands of his opponents? The only people who matter (Congress) believe Obama is a natural born citizen because Hawaii verified he is. He doesn't have to prove anything to anyone else. The short form is good enough to get a passport and thus proves citizenship.

Obama has been asked to demonstrate he meets the qualification of being a Natural Born Citizen. Mr. Obama refuses to do that and asks for the American people to go by a scan of a unverified document posted on a third party website. That's ridiculous.

Not really. That short form is all that is required and the officials of Hawaii have verified that he was born there. That's all Congress and the Republican party itself needed to prove his birth was a non-issue. The great majority of the American public are very satisfied that Obama was born in Hawaii. Birthers are quite a small minority and, frankly, your leader is a kook who does the movement no favors by filing junk lawsuit after junk lawsuit and is now facing charges of suborning perjury.

It's nothing like that. Obama is not a victim. The American voter is the victim if a candidate gets by on a loophole and then works the system on legal technicalities so they don't have to demonstrate they are eligible to serve.

Technicalities are law. There really isn't a loophole. Congress could make law asking requiring a candidate to present credentials, but they haven't because there hasn't been a need.

You say that as if it's a good thing. There is something wrong with our system if that is true. No party in control of congress should be able to put an ineligible candidate in place as Commander in Chief of our Military.

And the Quo Warranto process was put in place by the Congress.

Nobody but a small minority of people believe Congress has put any ineligible candidate in place as CiC. Not even Obama's harshest critics, not even the Republican governor of Hawaii, not even John McCain believe Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii.

It's not a good or bad thing. It is just simply the law. Lincoln wasn't born in the United States just like John McCain wasn't yet both stood as candidates for their parties and Lincoln won. Congress considered both of them as qualified to hold the office of President and that's all that matters because Congress certifies the elections.

That's not true. It is uncharted waters. This is a massive undertaking and involves the highest office in the land. It is not expected to be simple or easy. Do you know how many lawsuits were brought to change major issues? Do you know how many years it took to get the right plaintiff...the right case to change major laws?

They do not matter. As much as it may pain you, they don't. Even if every single Supreme Court justice states that Obama is NOT qualified to be President, there's nothing they can do about it because the Constitution empowers only Congress to do anything. The Supreme Court cannot order Congress or the President to do anything either because the Presidential and Vice Presidential elections are the Constitutional responsibility of Congress, not the Supreme Court. Presidential elections are certified by Congress and they're the only body able to do that. Congress is also the only body capable of removing a President.

Don't even mention changes to the constitution. Obama has not demonstrated he is a Natural Born Citizen and all you can claim is that a Democratically controlled congress prefers to ignore that. The Democrats put Obama on the ticket and it is in their interest not to verify the qualification.

Legally, he has. The short form officially proves it for everyone involved because it is proof of birth and citizenship from a legal standpoint. Again, it doesn't matter if Obama was born abroad by a foreign mother because he has legitimate officially-sealed documents which say he was born by an American mother in the state of Hawaii. It's the documents which matter most because they have legal standing in any court in the United States. Challenging even the short form would require evidence and, so far, nobody has produced any. There is only an allegation and an allegation is not enough to prove anything without evidence.

It's not just Congress who recognizes it either. Do you not think that if there was any substance to this claim that the GOP wouldn't have jumped on it before Congress, as a unanimous body, certified that Obama had won the election and could take office? You can bet they'd be all over him like ants on a sugar doughnut. The Democrats may control Congress, but they can't muzzle the GOP members as recent policy debates have proven. They can't silence the pundits or even Orly Taitz. The fact is, the GOP and the Democrats, and the state of Hawaii have no issue with his citizenship.

 

[Bbucko]

Are you really that bored, Jason?

 

[jason_els]

Are you really that bored, Jason?

Pretty much. I've been waiting for your comment on the Gigi Gaston thread but no such luck (hintnudgehintnudge) so....

 

[Bbucko]

Pretty much. I've been waiting for your comment on the Gigi Gaston thread but no such luck (hintnudgehintnudge) so....

Oo oo lemme look :biggrin1:

PM me when something fun's afoot, willya?

 

[TurkeyWithaSunburn]

It's not just Congress who recognizes it either. Do you not think that if there was any substance to this claim that the GOP wouldn't have jumped on it before Congress, as a unanimous body, certified that Obama had won the election and could take office? You can bet they'd be all over him like ants on a sugar doughnut. The Democrats may control Congress, but they can't muzzle the GOP members as recent policy debates have proven. They can't silence the pundits or even Orly Taitz. The fact is, the GOP and the Democrats, and the state of Hawaii have no issue with his citizenship.

And this is what counts. :smile: Because only Congress can get rid of the President, something I don't see happening anytime soon.

Didn't one of the judges tell Taitz as much in one of his rulings?

This thread is like a circumcision thread I tell ya

Does the 1000th poster get a cookie or something? :biggrin1:

 

[Industrialsize]

Are you really that bored, Jason?

Now that made me laugh....

 

[Trinity]

Not at all. Our court system is adversarial. Why should Obama help legitimize anyone suing him by acquiescing to the demands of his opponents? The only people who matter (Congress) believe Obama is a natural born citizen because Hawaii verified he is. He doesn't have to prove anything to anyone else. The short form is good enough to get a passport and thus proves citizenship.

That's where we disagree. Obama as President has a responsibility to legitimize his eligibility and verify his qualification as required in the Constitution. The American people questioning both the vetting process and Obama's failure to demonstrate he is a Natural Born Citizen are not his opponents. They did not have to be...they only filed lawsuits because the man who is supposed to lead refused to keep his promise of transparency.

Not really. That short form is all that is required

Where is that written?

and the officials of Hawaii have verified that he was born there. That's all Congress and the Republican party itself needed to prove his birth was a non-issue.

The State of Hawaii has verified that they hold an original vital record that states he was born in the State. So, Mr. Obama should release that original long form vital record. period. You said it correctly...Congress deemed it a "non-issue." That does not mean Barack Obama is a Natural Born Citizen...it only means that Congress has chosen to ignore the issue of whether Obama is an eligible Natural Born Citizen.

The great majority of the American public are very satisfied that Obama was born in Hawaii. Birthers are quite a small minority

The requirement is not born in Hawaii. The qualification is Natural Born Citizen. Obama has yet to release the original document that can prove he was born in Hawaii, he has admitted to being a dual citizen at birth, his father was not a citizen, and his mother did not ass on jus sanguinis citizenship. Since, Obama and a majority of people believe that the President meets the requirement...then release the long form Certificate of Live Birth and dispel any doubt.

and, frankly, your leader is a kook who does the movement no favors by filing junk lawsuit after junk lawsuit and is now facing charges of suborning perjury.

Regardless of Taitz the issue is whether Barack Obama meets the qualification to serve as a Natural Born Citizen. Standing and jurisdiction have kept lawsuits from being decided on the merits. The Quo Warranto may allow the matter to be resolved.

Technicalities are law. There really isn't a loophole. Congress could make law asking requiring a candidate to present credentials, but they haven't because there hasn't been a need.

It's a loophole. You admit technicalities and then say there is no loophole. There is a need to address the issue. And a law has been introduced in Congress but the Democratically controlled congress never allowed it out of committee. That may change in 2010.

Nobody but a small minority of people believe Congress has put any ineligible candidate in place as CiC. Not even Obama's harshest critics, not even the Republican governor of Hawaii, not even John McCain believe Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii.

Lou Dobbs believes Obama was born in Hawaii. That is not the point. Once again, Mr. Obama should release his the long form Certificate of Live Birth and any pertinent documentation to dispel any doubt and then demonstrate that he is a Natural Born Citizen because he has admitted to being a dual citizen at birth and his mother was unable to pass on jus sanguinis citizenship.

It's not a good or bad thing. It is just simply the law.

It is a bad thing. A Political Party potentially putting an ineligible candidate on a ticket, refusing to vet their candidate because of their partisan interest, and because they control congress a Political Party possibly installing an ineligible candidate as Commander in Chief is a bad thing.

Lincoln wasn't born in the United States just like John McCain wasn't yet both stood as candidates for their parties and Lincoln won.

Lincoln was born in Kentucky. Be Real Jason - Had John McCain won the Presidency, prior to McCain being sworn in, Democrats would have had a lawsuit taking the Natural Born Citizen issue to the Supreme Court to be decided. Judge Carter stated the courts had jurisidiction prior to the President being sworn in.

Congress considered both of them as qualified to hold the office of President and that's all that matters because Congress certifies the elections.

Congress determined McCain to be a Natural Born Citizen. I believe that would be backed up by the Supreme Court based on what the framers intended by the Natural Born Citize Clause. The same cannot be said for Obama's situation as a Dual Citizen at birth, having a father who was not a Citizen, a mother who did not pass on jus sanguinis citizenship and Obama being a candidate who refuses to release his original long form certificate of live birth.

They do not matter.

Silly...really Jason. That is a silly statement. Of course the Supreme Court matters.

As much as it may pain you, they don't. Even if every single Supreme Court justice states that Obama is NOT qualified to be President, there's nothing they can do about it because the Constitution empowers only Congress to do anything.

Let me try to make it easy for you with an example.

ACORN is done because undercover investigation took them down with public opinion. Everybody saw the corruption for what it was. Please don't insult anyone's intelligence by making stupid statements that the Democratically controlled congress, crazed though it may be, would ignore a ruling of the Supreme Court and refuse to act. And it may not be Democratically controlled after 2010.

The Supreme Court cannot order Congress or the President to do anything either because the Presidential and Vice Presidential elections are the Constitutional responsibility of Congress, not the Supreme Court. Presidential elections are certified by Congress and they're the only body able to do that. Congress is also the only body capable of removing a President.

One more time, the Quo Warranto was put in place by congress for this purpose.

Legally, he has. The short form officially proves it for everyone involved because it is proof of birth and citizenship from a legal standpoint. Again, it doesn't matter if Obama was born abroad by a foreign mother because he has legitimate officially-sealed documents which say he was born by an American mother in the state of Hawaii. It's the documents which matter most because they have legal standing in any court in the United States. Challenging even the short form would require evidence and, so far, nobody has produced any. There is only an allegation and an allegation is not enough to prove anything without evidence.

That whole paragraph is a disparage of justice and it should not be tolerated. The Quo Warranto will most likely address the issue.

 

[Industrialsize]

That's where we disagree. Obama as President has a responsibility to legitimize his eligibility and verify his qualification as required in the Constitution. The American people questioning both the vetting process and Obama's failure to demonstrate he is a Natural Born Citizen are not his opponents. They did not have to be...they only filed lawsuits because the man who is supposed to lead refused to keep his promise of transparency.

Where is that written?


The State of Hawaii has verified that they hold an original vital record that states he was born in the State. So, Mr. Obama should release that original long form vital record. period. You said it correctly...Congress deemed it a "non-issue." That does not mean Barack Obama is a Natural Born Citizen...it only means that Congress has chosen to ignore the issue of whether Obama is an eligible Natural Born Citizen.
The requirement is not born in Hawaii. The qualification is Natural Born Citizen. Obama has yet to release the original document that can prove he was born in Hawaii, he has admitted to being a dual citizen at birth, his father was not a citizen, and his mother did not ass on jus sanguinis citizenship. Since, Obama and a majority of people believe that the President meets the requirement...then release the long form Certificate of Live Birth and dispel any doubt.

Regardless of Taitz the issue is whether Barack Obama meets the qualification to serve as a Natural Born Citizen. Standing and jurisdiction have kept lawsuits from being decided on the merits. The Quo Warranto may allow the matter to be resolved.



It's a loophole. You admit technicalities and then say there is no loophole. There is a need to address the issue. And a law has been introduced in Congress but the Democratically controlled congress never allowed it out of committee. That may change in 2010.



Lou Dobbs believes Obama was born in Hawaii. That is not the point. Once again, Mr. Obama should release his the long form Certificate of Live Birth and any pertinent documentation to dispel any doubt and then demonstrate that he is a Natural Born Citizen because he has admitted to being a dual citizen at birth and his mother was unable to pass on jus sanguinis citizenship.


It is a bad thing. A Political Party potentially putting an ineligible candidate on a ticket, refusing to vet their candidate because of their partisan interest, and because they control congress a Political Party possibly installing an ineligible candidate as Commander in Chief is a bad thing.


Lincoln was born in Kentucky. Be Real Jason - Had John McCain won the Presidency, prior to McCain being sworn in, Democrats would have had a lawsuit taking the Natural Born Citizen issue to the Supreme Court to be decided. Judge Carter stated the courts had jurisidiction prior to the President being sworn in.


Congress determined McCain to be a Natural Born Citizen. I believe that would be backed up by the Supreme Court based on what the framers intended by the Natural Born Citize Clause. The same cannot be said for Obama's situation as a Dual Citizen at birth, having a father who was not a Citizen, a mother who did not pass on jus sanguinis citizenship and Obama being a candidate who refuses to release his original long form certificate of live birth.


Silly...really Jason. That is a silly statement. Of course the Supreme Court matters.

Let me try to make it easy for you with an example.

ACORN is done because undercover investigation took them down with public opinion. Everybody saw the corruption for what it was. Please don't insult anyone's intelligence by making stupid statements that the Democratically controlled congress, crazed though it may be, would ignore a ruling of the Supreme Court and refuse to act. And it may not be Democratically controlled after 2010.


One more time, the Quo Warranto was put in place by congress for this purpose.


That whole paragraph is a disparage of justice and it should not be tolerated. The Quo Warranto will most likely address the issue.

You need to talk to your therapist on strategies for you to move on. Obama will NEVER acquiesce to the demands of the lunatic fringe. You need to start with the first stage of grief, acceptance. You'll be a happier person.

 

[D_Cleon W Ballbreath IV]

The State of Hawaii has verified that they hold an original vital record that states he was born in the State. ...

Wow! What an admission. Why does this keep going on? Oh, right, the birthers are nuts. Or is it that the officials involved are all committing fraud? Where's my tin hat?

...his mother did not ass [sic] on jus sanguinis citizenship...

Repeating this ad nauseum doesn't make it so! But it's a moot point because you even conceded that he was born in Hawaii!

 

[Industrialsize]

Wow! What an admission. Why does this keep going on? Oh, right, the birthers are nuts. Or is it that the officials involved are all committing fraud? Where's my tin hat?



Repeating this ad nauseum doesn't make it so! But it's a moot point because you even conceded that he was born in Hawaii!

You don't get it. Trinity and the Birthers make up rules where none exist in order to prop up their arguments.

 

[Pitbull]

Obama doesn't have a birth certificate.
If he did he would have shown it.

 

[D_Cleon W Ballbreath IV]

Obama doesn't have a birth certificate.
If he did he would have shown it.

Repeating this ad nauseum doesn't make it so!

 

[Pitbull]

Neither does repeating that he has one make it so.

Smells like bullshit?
Probably is bullshit.

No birth certificate?
Hasn't proved jack squat.

Believe all you want.
Believe is what one does when there is no proof.

 

[vince]

Neither does repeating that he has one make it so.

Smells like bullshit?
Probably is bullshit.

That's why this thread has smelled like a barn from post #1.

No birth certificate?
Hasn't proved jack squat.

Neither have you. Why is that? See above quote about bullshit.

Believe all you want.
Believe is what one does when there is no proof.

Ironic isn't it?

 

[D_Cleon W Ballbreath IV]

Neither does repeating that he has one make it so.

Bravo, another "I know you are, so what am I?"

Smells like bullshit?
Probably is bullshit.

Have you taken a second to apply this test to your own position? What masterminds the Kenyans are. All this effort to put one of their own in place. The fiends!

No birth certificate?
Hasn't proved jack squat.

There's no requirement that he show it to every citizen in the country. He proved it enough for the state of Hawaii, so unless you're saying they're all corrupt...

Believe all you want.
Believe is what one does when there is no proof.

Back at ya. But in your case, it's called grasping at straws.

 

[Channelwood]

There you go. 1000 points of nonsense.