Obama in Turkey: The U.S. is not at war with Islam

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Apr 6, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Turkey is the last stop on Obama's eight-day European swing.


    First, backtrack: This weekend in Prague, Obama talked about the need for the goal of a "nuclear-free world". More than 20,000 people came to listen in the historic square outside the Prague Castle gates. Visually, these clips are cinematically beautiful. Thematically, Obama is, again, repairing U.S.-european relations, relations strained to the breaking point when we let that clod-hopping gut-instincted, pray-to-Jesus cowboy from Texas take the reins of the country, the bull in the china shop. It's nice to have a gentleman back in the White House. It's nice to have a thinker.

    YouTube - Obama's Prague Speech English part1

    YouTube - Obama's Prague Speech English part2


    Today in Turkey, in a speech that was carried live on Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya, Obama adressed the Turkish Parliament, He talked about the fight against al Qaeda, but also about a stronger relationship between the U.S. and the muslim world that goes beyond the fight against al Qaeda:

    "I know there have been difficulties these last few years. I know that the trust that binds us has been strained, and I know that strain is shared in many places where the Muslim faith is practiced. Let me say this as clearly as I can: the United States is not at war with Islam."


    I know there are many conservatives who think these speeches are a lot of hot air, "fanciful words", style over substance, the same thing the cons were saying when Obama gave speeches at Invesco Field, say, during the run up to the presidency.

    But words matter. Symbolism matters. Simple declarative statements like "The United States is not at war with Islam" matter.

    Obama said: "We will listen carefully, bridge misunderstanding, and seek common ground. We will be respectful, even when we do not agree. And we will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over so many centuries to shape the world for the better – including my own country."



    Call me a Kool-Aid drinker, but I could not envision a more successful European trip - that started last week with the Queen of England embracing Michelle, and Barack securing face-to-face meetings with both Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Chinese President Hu Jintao later this year.


    I finally feel we're scraping the crud off our feet (known as the Bush's Administration), disentangling ourselves from that Texas yahoo, king of the malapropism, and coming into our own. Working toward creating a better, interconnected, less hostile world.


    (the romantic in me: YouTube - Imagine )
     
  2. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

    thanx for the laughs, dude! had a case of the Mondays 'til I read your post!
     
  3. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    It's odd because Republicans will immediately go to the brilliant speeches of Ronald Reagan when recalling his legacy and reminisce about how wonderful they were. Then you raise the issue of Bush's speeches and they dismiss them with, "It was just a speech. You don't have to be a good public speaker to be a good president." Nothing like re-writing history the way you want it to be.
     
  4. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    To the OP: You simply do not get it. Drink the Kool aid in big gulps. America has never been at war with Islam. Islam has been at war with us, period. And parts of Islam will continue to be at war with America as long as we defend and support Israel. And we will never turn our backs on Israel, (Or we should never turn our backs on Israel) so we will remain the enemy of Islamic jihadists for the next 1000 years.

    His speech was pretty much pablum for the neo rads that will run smack dab into the harsh reality of what is really at play: Islamic hatred for Israel and America.
     
  5. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Will, you really need to try to be clearer in your posts. For the Republicans in the audience: What Obama called for was a "nukular-free world".
     
    #5 B_Nick8, Apr 6, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
  6. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Islam is not at war with America. It's only a handful of religious fanatics who who are trying to cause the ruckus and it's these individuals who are at war with EVERYONE.

    Islam & Christianity... ain't it funny how these are quite possibly the two most violent religions on our planet today? And isn't it ironic that the fanatics on both sides of these religions are the ones causing all the drama and doing all the finger pointing? And who gets hurt the most? The everyday people who just want to live to see another day. Modern religion needs a do-over and in the worst way.
     
  7. charloman

    charloman New Member

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    your individuals amount to over 10 million "individuals" if you take just 1% of all Islam. More like 3-5% are radical and now look at your numbers. It isn't going to just go away with pretty words.
     
  8. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    jason els writes, "It's odd because Republicans will immediately go to the brilliant speeches of Ronald Reagan when recalling his legacy and reminisce about how wonderful they were. Then you raise the issue of Bush's speeches and they dismiss them with, "It was just a speech. You don't have to be a good public speaker to be a good president." Nothing like re-writing history the way you want it to be."


    --------------------

    Even conservatives who go on and on about Reagan's speeches will deride Obama as a "fancy speechmaker".

    The Reagan legacy, a large chunk of Reagan's reputation, rests on a series of speeches.

    There was the 1983 SDI, or "Star Wars" speech. Two weeks later there was the "Evil Empire" speech.

    There was the Normandy speech written by Peggy Noonan, who also wrote the "Challenger Disaster" speech ("slipped the surly bonds of earth... and touched the face of God").

    There was the "Tear down this wall" speech delivered at the Brandenburg Gate in 1987.


    Ronald Reagan was a relentless speechmaker, none written by himself, all read off of notes, if not a teleprompter.
     
  9. nattynatt

    nattynatt Member

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    As a European, i'm not, exactly, thrilled to hear an American president instructing Euro governments how to vote in regards to Turkey's bid for EU inclusion.
     
  10. mattflanders

    mattflanders Member

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    Hear hear! I agree with that completely, and let's not forget that the majority of Turks isn't in favor of EU-membership either.
    Personally, I am in favor of Turkish membership but it should be well-prepared, and that is certainly not the case now.
     
  11. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    The thing is, Reagan was a magnificent speech maker. He and Noonan together could blow the doors off anyone else. I've seen a huge number of Reagan films and I have to tell you, he was actually an accomplished actor capable of doing justice to difficult roles. He could never escape his wholesome looks until his last film, The Killers, and I think that's what held him back in an era when the bad boys were most celebrated. Say what you will about his presidency, but the man knew how to read lines and deliver them with the skill of a true actor and keep his composure under the fire of the media.
     
  12. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Turkey is a strategic ally necessary for the security of Europe and the United States. Turkey controls Russian access to the Mediterranean. Turkey's inclusion in the EU will help solidify that alliance to the benefit of the continent and the US; particularly in the face of a resurgent Russia, an uncertain Iraq, an unpredictable Iran, and a recalcitrant Syria. That is why Obama and other European leaders want Turkey in the EU despite the fact it has a basket case history.
     
  13. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    And I doubt that Al-Qaeda's army even amounts to 1% of the people in Islam, nevermind 3-5%. Or are you suggesting that there's enough radical Islamic terrorists out there to fill the entire cities of Chicago & Los Angeles? Also, what are the chances of every single one of them attacking us at once?

    Even if your numbers are correct, it all sounds like a whole bunch of over-exaggerated paranoia to me. We can't expect to reason with all of our enemies, however, we don't have to live in fear of them either.
     
  14. rundry

    rundry New Member

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    it would also be nice to have another President is office, instead of a guttless wonder.
     
  15. Penis Aficionado

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    I would like to hear Obama actually name something that the Islamic faith has done "to shape the world for the better &#8211; including my own country."
     
  16. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Start here: Islam's Influence on the World

    Not that I'm trying to defend Islam here, but we shouldn't assume that all they've done is cause problems. That's exactly what a religious fanatic would say.
     
  17. Penis Aficionado

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    Vinylboy, no offense, but I clicked on that link and the first thing it said is that Islam's greatest gift to the world is the Koran.

    That is exactly the problem.

    Also, Obama specifically referred to Islam's influence on *this* country, the U.S.A. I think that is a stretch. There have certainly been Muslims who did great things in America, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Islam itself shaped America for the better.
     
  18. Penis Aficionado

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    Here's my problem with what Obama said.

    George W. Bush fucked up almost everything he touched, but one thing he did *not* do is ever send the message that America was at war with Islam. He went miles out of his way to do the opposite.

    A few days after 9/11, I watched Bush's speech in a bar full of guys in Yonkers, NY who an hour earlier had been talking about going out and beating up anyone with a towel around their heads. Bush emphatically told them that would be unpatriotic and unAmerican, end of discussion.

    Obama found it necessary to state this because many Muslims are psychotically obsessed with the concept of "respect." They will kill their own daughters rather than face the "disrespect" of hearing them called sluts and whores. They will riot and threaten violence because someone drew a picture of Mohammed in a magazine, even if it's just a stick figure with the word "Mohammed" written next to it. And instead of just killing their enemies like decent Christians and Jews, they have to drag the bodies through the streets, smear one another with the blood and jump up and down in a big chest-thumping orgy to convince themselves that they are indeed worthy of this much "respect."

    It probably made good tactical sense for Obama to reassure them as he did, but still it was just kind of a no-balls thing to do. If he was going to make the goes-without-saying point that America is not at war with Islam, I wish he also would have said that Islam needs to take a good look at itself and make the necessary changes for it to become part of the modern world.
     
  19. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Scroll down, please. :)

    Most devoted followers of any religion would assume that their greatest gift to the world is their Holy Book.

    I agree with you on some levels. However, I think it is necessary for people to try and look at the majority of Muslim people in a positive light. In any religion, there are a handful of radicals that cause trouble. I look at the suicide bombers of Islamic descent and put them on the same level as the radical Christians who have shot up abortion clinics. They both resort to extreme behavior all because of their beliefs, and in the process hurt (or even kill) innocent people. Neither of these people represent the majority of those that follow either faith. But leave it to these extremists to point fingers at each other and claim that their adversaries are the reason why things are messed up in this world.
     
    #19 B_VinylBoy, Apr 6, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  20. Penis Aficionado

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    I put them on the same level too. And I agree neither represent the *majority* of their faith. But Muslim terrorists represent a significant portion of their faith. Christian abortion-clinic shooters do not represent a significant portion of their faith, or even a significant portion of their faith's pro-life movement.

    You can't name one prominent Christian leader, or mainstream Christian church, that encourages or advocates shooting up abortion clinics. But it seems to be a big debate in Islamic circles, whether or not the Koran tells Muslims to use violence against those who "insult" Islam.
     
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