Obama LOSES Another BIG State.

transformer_99

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To be candid, I think Hillary loses to McCain as well. I think when either Democrat emerges, the support from the loser within the Democrat party will transfer over just as easily, I see it close in November 2K8, will it be like 2000 close or more like the 2004 differential ? That is 500,000 (2000) vs 3 million (2004) popular votes ? Even there, the EV votes, the score was 271-266 vs 286-252 ?

If it's any indication, Clinton taking the bigger states might lead us to think she can do that in the final election, it's where a higher concentration of Democrats generally reside. For it to be 2000 close, the Dems need that candidate to win bigger states, otherwise the smaller states and enough of them are still highly concentrated Republican.
 

b.c.

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In this case, we have no choice. Whatever we do is to vote. Not voting is to vote for McCain. Staying home means nothing, really.


By the same token, I have said that if I don't like the way either Democratic candidate wins the nomination I would either not vote, or vote for McCann. So I wouldn't ASSume anything of Democratic voters.

As for whether Obama can win over McCann (given the record of Republican party policy to date with the recent administration) his not being able to win (imo) would be more of a referendum on the country rather than on the candidate.

McCann's winning certainly wouldn't be the first time an asshole held the office.
 

pdxman

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Well, being that I live in North Carolina and know that more White NC'ers love Barack than Black, I'll have to disagree with you.

(Plus NC is in the South, but hardly "Southern")
Lest I forget to mention all of the "Republicans for Barack" bumper stickers I see driving about.


LOL,,,what all 10 you have seen? Please North Carolina who elected Jesse Helms(lol) how many times? I guess you saw all those bumper stickers in close proximity to some tobacco road university, probably within a one mile radius..the only real slightly liberal areas of north carolina.
 

gjorg

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Hillary supporters put you money where your mouth is! Go to Hillaryclinton.com and put just $5.00 on your debit card and show some real support. He out spent her three to one! Who uses money more wisely. I got calls from chris rock today, far cry from Oprah!
 

B_VinylBoy

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This is a very interest angle... "Just wait til the republicans go after him". What more can they do that Hillary has not.

Don't underestimate the power of the Republicans and their merciless mudslinging. In 2000, the somehow convinced Gore to seperate himself from Bill Clinton and his "tarnished" campaign even though he had a 73% Approval rating. He lost. In 2004, they managed to spin John Kerry into an enemy of the armed forces and convinced people that Gay Marriage was more of a concern than the war that was already failing. He lost.

You don't think the Republicans don't have something up their sleeve for Obama? Seriously, they'll figure something out to try and spin to make those not focused on the real issues jump up and down. And the majority of those conservative states that Obama won during the primary will go running to McCain.

AND... following the lies, the current desperate cry for change and the $400,000,000 per day that we pay to democratize a foreign nation (while complaining about $4/gal gas ), the republicans are toast.

We honestly thought they were toast in '04. But it's apparent there's a lot of stupid people out there that don't pay attention to the obvious. That's why Dems have to stick together and support each other. There's no way Obama or Clinton will win in November if voters decide not to support the other candidate if their first choice doesn't get the nomination. I just hope these so-called independent thinkers who claim to like Obama but won't vote for Clinton (or vice versa) really see what kind of choice they're really making.
 

D_Fiona_Farvel

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Well, being that I live in North Carolina and know that more White NC'ers love Barack than Black, I'll have to disagree with you.

(Plus NC is in the South, but hardly "Southern")
Lest I forget to mention all of the "Republicans for Barack" bumper stickers I see driving about.
About North Cackalacky, I concur.
It isn't a super conservative state, and that became more pronounced as Northerners moved in. I even know people from NorCal who moved to NC with IBM like 10 years ago?
 

pdxman

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About North Cackalacky, I concur.
It isn't a super conservative state, and that became more pronounced as Northerners moved in. I even know people from NorCal who moved to NC with IBM like 10 years ago?

I repeat...lol yeah North Carolina is a bastion of liberalism in the south,,lol,,,yeah thats why Jesse Helms was elected how many times?..lol Jesse Helms,,,one of the most right wing zealot idiot senators EVER! There for like 20 years!!!!! and hes still be there if he hadn't decided to retire. Yeah lol .I totally agree,,North Carolina HAS TOTALLY changed in the last YEARS since he retired,,,its like living in Sweden or something its so progressive and liberal lol
 

B_VinylBoy

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LOL,,,what all 10 you have seen? Please North Carolina who elected Jesse Helms(lol) how many times? I guess you saw all those bumper stickers in close proximity to some tobacco road university, probably within a one mile radius..the only real slightly liberal areas of north carolina.

There's no point arguing with that misguided boy, pdxman. Don't even bother. :wink:
 

D_Fiona_Farvel

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I repeat...lol yeah North Carolina is a bastion of liberalism in the south,,lol,,,yeah thats why Jesse Helms was elected how many times?..lol
Jesse Helms? Dude, when Helms was elected NC was a very different state than it is now. Further, the incumbent almost never loses unless they fuck up royally and Helms didn't to my recollection.
 

pdxman

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Jesse Helms? Dude, when Helms was elected NC was a very different state than it is now. Further, the incumbent almost never loses unless they fuck up royally and Helms didn't to my recollection.


Uh hmm he retired in 2003,,wow i guess you changed alot in five years! I bet its like living in Massachusettes now! lol.. and i guarantee hed still be there if he wanted to,,hanging on like Strom Thurmond,,,and oh yeah BOTH your current Senators are REPUBLICAN. Regarding Helms,,so your reasoning is you can be a right wing zealot but you dont "fuck up" so stay in office. Is that the reasoning of your so called "progressive" North Carolina people? LOL
 

transformer_99

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How anyone can chose to remain in this war out of fear of retaliation is beyond me.

And come Nov 2008, every American will have to do a reality check on that retaliation. Because it is coming either way, when is more the question ? So where does America keep it, out in front of us in places like Iraq/Afghanistan where Al Qaeda and the rest of them that will attack us will flock to continue a war/terrorism. Or do we withdraw and defend for another domestic attack ? I agree the cost of the war is astronomical, but the alternative is to cut that cost and perhaps spend as much domestically to actually defend the North American continent again ? Who knows, maybe the higher gasoline prices is simply a masked form of OPEC supported terrorism. Either way, we are taking a beating @ the pump. Not only are we paying $$$ for the war, but the price of a barrel of oil is funding it ? Not to mention, our currency is taking a beating too for an exchange rate. Ugghhhh, what a mess.
 

faceking

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How can he beat McCain if he cant beat Hillary? With all his money and all the the media support he cant knock her out, he cant win key states, she has won NY, CA., FL., TX, OH.,PA.
If his supporters think Hillary Clinton is going negative on him wait until the republicans go after him.

Ya idjit-galoot (sp?) NY and CA will go Dem if Barbara Streisand was running.

FL, OH and TX is a different story.... oh and PA is the most pathetic "save and protect me" union/AFL-CIO corrupt state next to Michigan....
 

D_Fiona_Farvel

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Uh hmm he retired in 2003,,wow i guess you changed alot in five years.. and i guarantee hed still be there if he wanted to,,hanging on like Strom Thurmond,,,and oh yeah BOTH your current Senators are REPUBLICAN
My current senators? Actually they aren't and they're both women.

Moving on, NC changed from when I visited family stationed there as a kid, mid 80s, to the last time I was there in about 2000. Helms was Senator the whole time and yes, the state changed over the course of those years.

Regarding his tenure as senator, it had to begin around the late 60s and didn't end until 2003 you say? Well, if nothing had changed after 30 years, south or not. NC would be the social rarity.
 

transformer_99

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Wait, even if she won all remaining states with the same numbers, she still won't catch up to Obama...so...what's the point?

The point is to force it to come down to the equivalent of overtime and then play the fact Michigan and Florida didn't count. From what I perceive of it, both states would've been Clinton wins (and looked like a difference similar to what PA provided tonight). Then again Edwards was still in it at that time, so maybe that waters down what might've been Clinton wins. Who knows, but without a clear selection, delegates and even super delegates must rethink the party's best interests in the event it's even closer when it's over and there is no clear cut winner. It's hard to see Obama as a the Democratic ticket winning only Illinois by popular vote. As of this post, Fox projects 52 delegates for Clinton and 46 for Obama, 60 uncommitted. I think I read somewhere as well, Obama led popular vote by some 700,000 votes. PA was over 213,000 vote swing back to Clinton to cut into that.

Democrats

Precincts Reporting: 96%

winner: Hillary Clinton


Candidate
# of votes
% of total
# of delegates

Hillary Clinton
1,194,897
54.91%
52

Barack Obama
981,258
45.09%
46

BTW, here's FL & MI:

Super Tuesday | States | Polls - America's Election HQ
Super Tuesday | States | Polls - America's Election HQ

The popular vote is basically a dead heat, Obama & Edwards pulled their names in MI.
 

faceking

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The popular vote is basically a dead heat, Obama & Edwards pulled their names in MI.

THE





POPULAR












VOTE










DOES















NOT



















MATTER.













Fuck, how many times does that have to be repeated. If it did, campainging would be in a WHOLE different format, and the outcomes would be different. so again...










THE














POPULAR















VOTE

















DOES
















NOT


















MATTER.
 

faceking

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I agree the cost of the war is astronomical, but the alternative is to cut that cost and perhaps spend as much domestically to actually defend the North American continent again ?

The cost on the American economic psyche with another 9/11 will pale in comparison, much less immediate comparison should it happen again. The liberal mainstream media doens't want to tally how much 9/11 cost the US economy.... and give in mind the effect of the long-term benefit of the "industrial military complex" that Ike/Truman warned us about.....

Keep a small regular presence, after you stop playing nice and pummel the shit out of the place....

We've had 50,000 + soldiers in Korea for how long.... 50+ years or so. Germany???? Japan?

To say we'll have complete withdrawal is foolish.... last I checked North Korea ain't done shit... Germany is a thriving and safe, with a robust economy for 6 decades thanks to the US dime... and well.... we know Japan as done... so US protection ain't that bad....
 

transformer_99

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The cost on the American economic psyche with another 9/11 will pale in comparison, much less immediate comparison should it happen again. The liberal mainstream media doens't want to tally how much 9/11 cost the US economy.... and give in mind the effect of the long-term benefit of the "industrial military complex" that Ike/Truman warned us about.....

Keep a small regular presence, after you stop playing nice and pummel the shit out of the place....

We've had 50,000 + soldiers in Korea for how long.... 50+ years or so. Germany???? Japan?

To say we'll have complete withdrawal is foolish.... last I checked North Korea ain't done shit... Germany is a thriving and safe, with a robust economy for 6 decades thanks to the US dime... and well.... we know Japan as done... so US protection ain't that bad....

I wouldn't compare Korea, Vietnam nor Germany to Al Qaeda and terrorism. Japan maybe because they carried out an actual attack on US soil only. But a US withdrawal in Iraq is a US loss in Al Qaeda's mindset, where those other nations backed off on attacks for being beaten, Al Qaeda simply would reload and come back harder and stronger for it. That big a troop reduction in Iraq to me might be too much of a reduction. Underestimating is not acceptable to the American public either.

As for popular vote in your other post, it's indicative of where Obama and Clinton stand in terms of delegates. At a brokered convention, I expect that popular vote be upheld and within that reason. If the popular vote is close, I'm still pissed because MI & FL didn't count, I think the lame excuses for excluding them is, well, lame. In baseball there are 9 innings, who cares if a team gets all it's runs in the first 3 innings, or any other for that matter, FL and MI excluded are like saying the 2nd and 3rd inning of a baseball game shouldn't count. This is no better than Bush beating Gore in 2000, we all have to feel cheated, even Republicans, because the process was manipulated.
 

sizexxx

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Um, last I checked, Obama still won more popular votes, more states, more pledged delegates. Hillary won California and New York. These states will vote for either of the two Democrats. She narrowly won Texas, but Texas will go Democratic when hell freezes over (and anyhow he won the caucus there). Yes, she won Ohio and Pennsylvania, which are big swing states. But the result of a CLOSED PRIMARY has no predictive power over the results of the GENERAL ELECTION. Nobody won Florida or Michigan, because those were illegitimate elections, held against party rules, when both states were given ample time to schedule their elections for a week or two later and knew that they would be denied their delegates if they did not. People who were informed knew that their vote would only be symbolic, and so many did not vote or else voted in the Republican primary where their vote would count. We simply do not know what the result would have been in Florida had they held their primary in accordance with party rules and both candidates had been given the opportunity to mount a full-fledged campaign. And in Michigan, Obama wasn't even on the ballot...

Moving along, Obama won Illinois (just as much of a feat as Hillary winning her own home state), which was a big, Democratic leaning state last time I checked. What's more, he also won Virginia, a big state which has been getting more democratic (they have elected two Democratic governors in a row, a Democratic majority in the state legislature, a Democratic Senator and about to elect another Democrat to replace their retiring Republican Senator. He also won a medium sized state, Colorado, which has been trending more Democratic. He has a chance to change both of these states from red to blue, Hillary does not.

He has also consistently outperformed her among independents and disaffected Republicans, and can beat John McCain on government ethics issues, whereas Hillary cannot.

The only two states Hillary has a chance of winning among the remaining ones are Indiana and Kentucky. North Carolina is going to go to Obama in a landslide, as is Oregon. Indiana currently looks like a draw. There is no way that she can catch up in pledged delegates, and no way she can catch up in popular votes to make a case with the superdelegates without winning big in Indiana and pulling a major upset in either North Carolina or Oregon. Not gonna happen.

I hope she has the decency to bow out after she loses the primaries on May 6, so this party can get behind Obama and keep Insane John McSame away from the bomb bomb bomb Iran button.