Obama LOSES Another BIG State.

[Shelby]

I agree that Obama is unelectable. lf by chance he was elected, there is the possibility that he would get assassinated by some crazy white supremecist. lf that happened this country would be so racially torn apart. When M.L. King was shot there were riots in more than 100 cities. lt would be much worse if the first black president was killed. He already has more secret service protection than any candidate running for president ever has. They must know of the risk. This is something the delegates will think seriously about when choosing the nominee.

So Gowheels, how do you think college students and the black community and antiwar republicans like me are going to react if Obama unquestionably wins the popular vote and the pledged delegate count and by some miracle the convention gives the nomination to Clinton? Do you think we might feel we got shit on?

Do you think we'll take it sitting down?

The super delegates might want to think about that too.

 

[yurkon]

we should try a term w/o a president.
None of the above randomly pick social security numbers until a person is drawn who is a 35-60 y/o citizen that never was arrested, a graduate from a major university, can't be professional politician and would be willing to do it for 4 years. We'd be just fine or no worse off.


At least they would know what it's like to spend $40 on a tank of gas, they would be aware of what the sub-prime mess has done and is doing and not just sweep it away or ignore it. They would most likely know what it's like to work for a living instead of being a life time politician.

I am almost without hope for this country in the long term unless something changes drastically and I just don't see our system as set up for a new way of running things.

The average American kid is less prepared than many other countries.
$9 Trillion deficit about to be $10T after the sub-prime mess is tacked on.
The economy is about to be junk with increased fuel prices and foreclosures both of those will raise unemployment.
We've become or elected ourselves the world police and natural disaster manager.
Health care is now 16% of the GDP
The dollar is weak and getting weaker.
Pork spending is out of control. (I need to figure out how to get some, then I'll change my tune)
As a country, we invent things, but can't manufacture them.
We have millions of illegal aliens who don't make much money, but they are straining our schools, health care, courts, prisons etc. and it's not much of a campaign issue, yet related to our economy which is an issue.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

we should try a term w/o a president.
None of the above randomly pick social security numbers until a person is drawn who is a 35-60 y/o citizen that never was arrested, a graduate from a major university, can't be professional politician and would be willing to do it for 4 years. We'd be just fine or no worse off.

We already tried that. Alas, Walter Mondale didn't win.

 

[yurkon]

So Gowheels, how do you think college students and the black community and antiwar republicans like me are going to react if Obama unquestionably wins the popular vote and the pledged delegate count and by some miracle the convention gives the nomination to Clinton? Do you think we might feel we got shit on?

Do you think we'll take it sitting down?

The super delegates might want to think about that too.

I love the "We" in "we got sh*t on".

So if Obama becomes the nominee, he represents you fully with all he has done and will do in the future?

Don't get mad if he does win then and people say "you people" because you just claimed "we".

If it's we now, it's we then.
If it's PC now, it PC then.
You just brought race into it.
No one else has.
Unwittingly you just gave Hillary a bump in the remaining contests and probably with the superdelegates too.

If you make this into a vote on race, Obama loses.
Blacks are approx 12.5% of the population.
If the contest becomes us vs them it's 12.5 vs 87.5.
So you should shut your cake hole.
That does more harm than good.
Nice going.

 

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

So Gowheels, how do you think college students and the black community and antiwar republicans like me are going to react if Obama unquestionably wins the popular vote and the pledged delegate count and by some miracle the convention gives the nomination to Clinton? Do you think we might feel we got shit on?

Do you think we'll take it sitting down?

The super delegates might want to think about that too.

I tell you, the more this shit goes on, the closer we are to elections turning into nothing more than surveys.

I'm getting tired of people saying that Hillary should get the nod in spite of the votes just because they think she's more qualified. The fact is, the numbers show that more people think Obama to be more qualified thus far. These people, saying the rules should be bent for her, are the same who bitched about Gore not making the presidency because of the electoral vote, in spite of winning the popular vote. (And just for irony's sake, when it was projected that he would win the electoral but not the popular, they were perfectly okay with it.)

Now, I'm fine with undermining the electoral vote. I've said it before and I'll repeat it now, get rid of the shit. But for anyone to imply that any candidate should get the nod over the clear winner, despite the numbers, is undermining and completely negating the will of the voters.

I'm with you, man. She's losing fair and square. Let the numbers speak.

 

[yurkon]

Now, I'm fine with undermining the electoral vote. I've said it before and I'll repeat it now, get rid of the shit. But for anyone to imply that any candidate should get the nod over the clear winner, despite the numbers, is undermining and completely negating the will of the voters.

I'm with you, man. She's losing fair and square. Let the numbers speak.

Good post.
Why allow people to vote in the primary if the superdelegates can over ride?

I can only see that happening if something tragic happened to a candidate or the leader got fed up and quit.

 

[tripod]

I would like to think we don't have that kind of hate in this country any more, but we definitely got a lot of crazy people out there. True nut jobs.

The biggest threat to Obamas life is Hillary.
She is wack.
She wants the white house.
She believes this is her time, not his.
People around the Clintons seem to have trouble living more so than any other former president and first lady.

You ain't lyin'! I agree wholeheartedly! :tongue:

 

[transformer_99]

So Gowheels, how do you think college students and the black community and antiwar republicans like me are going to react if Obama unquestionably wins the popular vote and the pledged delegate count and by some miracle the convention gives the nomination to Clinton? Do you think we might feel we got shit on?

Do you think we'll take it sitting down?

The super delegates might want to think about that too.

That's one possibility, the other is a Bush defeats Gore, Truman defeats Dewey scenario that Yurkon brings up after your post. By putting Hillary instead of Obama is plain wrong, yet nullifying anything that could've happened with MI & FL wasn't a tampering either. Hillary wasn't running away with anything early on, not counting MI & FL was absurd. This is like a good baseball or even a good basketball game. It's so close we may see extra innings or OT to decide it thru a brokered convention. It's a travesty that MI & FL didn't count for anyone, regardless of who carried it. I voted for none of the 3 still remaining (if you include McCain), but who I voted for was still around before this turned into the race vs gender party nomination.

 

[transformer_99]

I love the "We" in "we got sh*t on".

So if Obama becomes the nominee, he represents you fully with all he has done and will do in the future?

Don't get mad if he does win then and people say "you people" because you just claimed "we".

If it's we now, it's we then.
If it's PC now, it PC then.
You just brought race into it.
No one else has.
Unwittingly you just gave Hillary a bump in the remaining contests and probably with the superdelegates too.

If you make this into a vote on race, Obama loses.
Blacks are approx 12.5% of the population.
If the contest becomes us vs them it's 12.5 vs 87.5.
So you should shut your cake hole.
That does more harm than good.
Nice going.

That's a possibility too, could this be as big as the Rodney King/OJ Simpson years in the early 1990's, the distinct possibility of racial riots in the wake/aftermath of a party nomination or even an election ? Let's face it, OJ has been forgotten for the most part even though he's been arrested recently. So that's somewhat of a diffused situation. Because ultimately they'll parade the victor from either party, should it not be Obama thru the streets of heavily black populated Washington DC ? Could there be any bigger rub it in your face scenario ? Some say Obama gets assasinated in other threads or web sites, what are the chances of a white caucasian female or a white caucasian male making it thru "The Gauntlet" (good Clint Eastwood/Sondra Locke movie btw) that day ?

Obama, McCain and A lot of Oven Chips « Boatang & Demetriou

I'm not the only one that has thought of it obviously by that link ? I may have even brought it up here at one time or another. And this isn't to say all blacks would uprise, but we all know there's a faction that even the black's refer to as the "n"-word (and not in casual, non-racist way).

And on the flip-side, the redneck, peckerwood KKK/white supremists ? Not any better of a thought or possibility should Obama carry the nomination and final election. And then what would that instigate ?

 

[sizexxx]

If this is not decided before the convention and it looks like Hillary is going to steal the nomination, I'm headed to Denver.

 

[slate_australis]

I support Clinton but I place the blame for this squarely in the hands of the state DC chairs. The ridiculous clammering to "count" was a waste of time. FL and MI screwed themselves out of importance... in order to be important.

Obama won because of three things, the calendar, Bill Clinton and caucuses.

This is the problem, Obama's strength comes from unrepresentative votes (tiny cauces votes and 30-50% african American voters - tell me what competitive state will have those sorts of numbers?) and the highly unreliable youth vote. Look at NH, Obama lost by 2%, Why? His college vote didn't turn out. It's the first rule of politics, if you have to rely on the youth vote... you'll lose.

The calcification of the electorates are A BIG worry. I don't think Obama has much choice, except to consider Clinton for VP. For the Supers who'll actually decide this thing, what it comes down to is which voters are you more worried about offending. For all the sound and fury - whoever wins is going to win by undemocratic means.

As far as I'm concerned, Clinton would beat McCain today by winning OH, PA and AR. Obama would lose today by losing PA and possibly MI. Plus McCain is popular with latinos, If I were in the Obama campaign looking at the map I'd be very worried.

 

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

Like it or not, the fact is that neither of them stands a chance against McCain alone because of how much the Democratic party has been divided by their campaigning against each other. Many Clinton supporters have sworn they'll either not vote at all or vote for McCain when Obama takes the candidacy.

 

[playainda336]

I love the "We" in "we got sh*t on".

He wasn't JUST talking about Black people, though. He was talking about the total of all the demographics...or at least that's how I perceived it.

At any rate, the more this election goes on, it seems that Hillary knows that she can't beat Obama so she wants to drag him down with her.

I'm actually thinking that McCain will beat Obama in a close race and McCain will smack Hillary down like a bitch that owes her pimp money.

 

[transformer_99]

If this is not decided before the convention and it looks like Hillary is going to steal the nomination, I'm headed to Denver.

I may take that week off from work and head towards Montana or something similar if it looks like it's going to be restless.

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

...which is the political equivalent of taking one's play ball and going home.

This is incredibly stupid. I don't even know why the election has to be so complicated. I hate to be cynical, but I pose this question: Who is going to fuck up the country the most if elected President? Since McCain has pretty much all but verbalized how he'll continue the Shrub legacy, I say, DON'T vote for this guy.

It's like the SorryEverybody.com campaign back from '04 in which 51% of the populace (the people that voted for Kerry) sent "I'm sorry" messages and pictures all over the Internet. They didn't vote for the guy; the 49% did and to the consequences that we're all already grossly familiar with.

Someone said earlier that the numbers don't lie. I don't think Obama is depending on anything other than people rising about the petty bullshit attacks on character and evaluating his issues as a politician and presidential contender. He is the most believable of the three. Clinton clearly says just the right things; she's been playing the shell game an incredibly long time. McCain -- well, he can barely talk sensibly about the differences between Iraq and al-fuckin'-Qaeda but he gets that retarded grandpa pat on the head / kiss on the cheek all the fuckin' time. And I just absolutely refuse to have someone lead my country if he can't get common knowledge correct.

It's noo-cle-uhr, Shrub.

I say let's just wrap all of this shit up. The statistics aren't kind. Hillary needs commanding leads in the remaining primaries in order to lead in delegates. She's too far behind. She needs to quit kickin' and screamin' and figure how she can positively contribute to her party.

 

[Industrialsize]

I support Clinton but I place the blame for this squarely in the hands of the state DC chairs. The ridiculous clammering to "count" was a waste of time. FL and MI screwed themselves out of importance... in order to be important.

Obama won because of three things, the calendar, Bill Clinton and caucuses.

This is the problem, Obama's strength comes from unrepresentative votes (tiny cauces votes and 30-50% african American voters - tell me what competitive state will have those sorts of numbers?) and the highly unreliable youth vote. Look at NH, Obama lost by 2%, Why? His college vote didn't turn out. It's the first rule of politics, if you have to rely on the youth vote... you'll lose.

The calcification of the electorates are A BIG worry. I don't think Obama has much choice, except to consider Clinton for VP. For the Supers who'll actually decide this thing, what it comes down to is which voters are you more worried about offending. For all the sound and fury - whoever wins is going to win by undemocratic means.

As far as I'm concerned, Clinton would beat McCain today by winning OH, PA and AR. Obama would lose today by losing PA and possibly MI. Plus McCain is popular with latinos, If I were in the Obama campaign looking at the map I'd be very worried.

the problem with your theory is that Obama is AHEAD of MCCain in both PA and MI according to all recent polling for the general election.

 

[sizexxx]

the problem with your theory is that Obama is AHEAD of MCCain in both PA and MI according to all recent polling for the general election.

Love your avatar graphic.

Notice how most of the pro-Hillary arguments are either factually inaccurate, devoid of logic, or both?

 

[hung9mike]

I'm not sure that Obama not winning in Pennsylvania means much for several reasons:

1. It's a state that Hillary always had a big advantage in. The woman has ties to Pennsylvania and a political machine in the state that backed her all along. If anything, the fact that Obama cut significantly into her margin suggests that Democratic voters supporting Hillary will eventually come around to him.
2. Pennsylvania has a closed primary. No independents voted in either primary. Now which way do you think they're going to vote in November, based on the results from all of the open primary states?
3. In 2004, with the nomination fairly well sewed up for Kerry, I voted my conscience in the primary and voted for Kucinich. I doubted my vote was likely to make a difference in who the nominee eventually would be. How many Pennsylvania voters drew the same conclusion this year, considering Hillary cannot overtake Obama in pledged delegates (and could only win the nomination by taking a large majority of superdelegates, a scenario which seems very unlikely)?

In fact, I'm not even sure why the media portrays Hillary's campaign as being even remotely viable at this point. The math, both in delegate count and finances, does not work in her favor. Wait a second, maybe I do know why: ask any Republican. Who do you think they want to run against?

 

[saabman]

Because he doesn't beat Hillary doesn't mean that he can't beat McCain. Hillary and Obama supporters overall will support either candidate if either is the nominee.



Not so fast. All reliable exit polls from Pennsylvania Tuesday say that 53% of Clinton supporters will either stay home in November or vote for McCain before they vote for Obama. Compare that to 23% of Obama supporters who say they will not support Clinton should she win the nomination. He has some real underlying problems.

 

[saabman]

I voted for Clinton in Ohio, and I will not vote for Obama, if its between Obama and McCain in Nov I will stay home. When you Dems say they will not vote for Obama I think they mean it, I know I do.

I cannot and will not vote for Obama either. This is my first really important election - and I will not screw it up. Four years ago, Barry was running around the Illinois state legislature voting "present" over 200 times in between sermons by Reverend Wright, while Hillary was making change happen in the Senate, working with both Democrats and Republicans.

If anyone thinks the Republicans won't make meat pies out of him in November should he be the nominee - you are drinking too much of the "Obama Zombie Kool-Aid".

As usual, the Democrats are right on track to shoot themselves in the foot - again.