Obama/McCain supporters: what do you think eithe can do...

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Wyldgusechaz, May 12, 2008.

  1. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    ...to make your specific circumstance better (if in fact it isn't good now).

    I am leaning to McCain for a couple reasons, 1) When he had the chance to get out of the *Hanoi HIlton*, he refused, saying it wasn't his turn that there were other guys who deserved to be realeased b/4 him. That shows a lot of character IMO. 2) He is saying he won't raise taxes. Its taken some time but he is beginning to understand that low taxes create opportunity for all.

    Obama seems like a good guy but IMO he isn't time tested. I don't know about his character and he says he wants to raise taxes which is plain foolish. I do like the fact that he has waged a very honorable campaign when others tried to drag him into the mud.
     
  2. D_Thoraxis_Biggulp

    D_Thoraxis_Biggulp New Member

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    Given how much has been spent on the war efforts, and how little that's left for everything else, we actually need to raise taxes atleast temporarily to build up funding for things like education and healthcare. It's sad, yes, but it's necessary, and Obama can't really be blamed for being ready to do what's needed to bring us back from the economical damage that Bush has done. As we get the troops home from Iraq, the excessive spending will be less necessary, and taxes will gradually subside back to their current state.
     
  3. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Very true indeed. It's amazing how many people want everything to improve in our country, yet they expect the government to magically generate the income to make it happen. The next president, whoever it may be (and I hope it's Obama or Clinton) has to clean up the mess of the last. Clinton One did this in '92 and managed to set the stage in his second term to make some gains on the defecit and improving the economy. Let's just hope that whoever wins in November doesn't make things any worse.
     
  4. D_Kaye Throttlebottom

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    time-tested and experience schtick:

    No one had a longer resume that Dick Chenney and Donald Rumsfeld. I'd look at what you consider sound judgment over "experience" and tests.

    I hold McCain to a higher standard b/c he's had a longer service period - though I question again, has he made better decisions for it - has been a part of the senate that has outsourced jobs b/c of NAFTA, defense contracts? Or passed it and then criticize after it was passed? He was against the tax cuts saying it would cripple the middle-class and now wants to make them permanent. There are things I like about McCain - I liked his immigration policy - even though it didn't get passed and he's starting again. I don't think this 'experience' stuff means anything - if you continue to make the same bad decisions.
     
  5. HazelGod

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    Thank you, doll...I just wanna tear my hair out everytime I hear this nonsense regurgitated.
     
  6. B_boynextdoorkpt

    B_boynextdoorkpt New Member

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    I think that McCain has more experience in Washington and politics, I think given time Obama would make a great president just not now, he needs some experience in Washington as a Senator. On the fact taht McCain was a prisoner of war, I hate that for him and glad he survived, but just because you served in the armed forces and fought in a war, does not automatically mean you can or should be president as he seems to state in this election and in 2000 and 2004.
     
  7. HazelGod

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    You mention this as though accentuating a positive. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Please elaborate.


     
  8. B_boynextdoorkpt

    B_boynextdoorkpt New Member

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    Not everyone that has spent time in Washington working for the American people is tained or a crook. Jimmy Carter came out of the wood works, claiming he was an outsider, and would bring change? What did he bring? A complete mess and 1 term. Paving the way for 12 years of Republican administrations. He is a wonderful man, dont get me wrong, he now is probably the best example of what a former president should be.
    Its not a bad thing to be a Washington insider. If you look at any company in this country or organization, a brand new person cannot come in and make a bunch of changes and expect them to go over or last. Look at Hillary's attempt with Healthcare in the first Clinton administration.
    Politics is a game, we all know that, and those that know the game, get things done. Knowing the game, does not make you a bad person, it makes you a knowledgable person.
    Obama is a first time senator, with very limited experience in Washington, yet claims to make vast changes when he is elected. We all know that promises are a dime a dozen during elections, they will say anything to be elected. But, if that candidate does not know the game and the rules, then they become a 1 term president with a mess on their hands.
    If Obama had been Hillary's VP, that would have been wonderful experience for him and he could have gone on and been president maybe.
    I know I am not liked for this opinion, but its ok, that is what makes America great, I can have a differing opinion without being judged. I just truly believe with all my heart that this is not the time for Obama, regardless of how popular he is, there have been many popular men become leaders and disaster follow.
     
  9. B_Lightkeeper

    B_Lightkeeper New Member

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    Raise taxes? Like hell! If government waste and foreign financial aid were cut, there would be plenty of money.

    Oh....and don't forget welfare fraud. :mad:
     
  10. dong20

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    Government waste, certainly but foreign aid - hardly. Unless you really believe that $75 a year will truly make such a difference. So, will you ask Myanmar for that $250k back ...? :rolleyes::biggrin1:
     
  11. mista geechee

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    maybe you guys dont realize that you gotta look behind the facade of a politician. anyone running for president is going to say what they think the majority wants to hear. they all promise things that don't and prolly never will happen.

    im still suprised that reverend wright is still such a hot issue. he obvoiusly doesnt agree with him. if everyone broke ties with people they have disagreements with , then we would all be recluses living in the woods like the unabomber.

    let's see:

    clinton - stood up and told a bold faced lie to the nation.

    mccain - didnt this guy pull his wife's hair and call her a cunt cuz she made a comment about his thinning hair?

    obama- has he lied? does he seem to have his own (figurative) kitchen in order? doesnt he seem rather intelligent?

    stapled shut and vinyl boy are right. it seems that people want the country to be fixed right now. like all problems will be fixed on inaguration day. since the european colinization of america there has always been some huge problem facing each generation since the 1600's. let's not forget that this country is built on hypocracy. the pilgrims left europe for religious freedom, then came over here and tried to force christianity on teh native americans. yet the pilgrims woulda died without the help of the native americans. in return they were killed and/or put on a reservation while their resources were explioted. talk about back stabbing. now the offspring of the colonist reap the rewards and try to tax teh native americans even though we are living on the native's land.

    sorry to get so wordy. basically wat im saying is that this country has never been right. it was built on a cracked foundation. its a long road to get where we need to be. and we will never get on that road until we put pride aside and admit that what we're doing isnt working. but instead we try to reason that if we keep doing the same thing it will eventually work. we're in for a rude awakening
     
  12. faceking

    faceking Active Member

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    Clinton Only reaped the revenue windfall from the internet boom, plain and simple... he couldn't of run up a surplus with the economics that Jimmy Carter dealt with. Bush Two, war spending aside, got handed the internet bust, 9/11, and a recesssion that started circa his inauguration.

    A president can have some impact on the economy, but there are larger forces and ppl (see Fed Chair) that can have a much greater long-term impact.
     
  13. faceking

    faceking Active Member

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    Government waste = big government
     
  14. D_Cyprius Slapwilly

    D_Cyprius Slapwilly New Member

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    I love how people vote in this country. We got George Bush because people would rather have a beer and a cookout with him than Al Gore. And from the looks of this thread, not much has changed.

    As much as McCain should be respected for his heroism during Vietnam, that has absolutely ZERO to do with the presidency. And as far as raising taxes goes, you're just regurgitating talking points here. Presidents are pragmatic about the economy AS THEY SHOULD BE! They all say one thing on the campaign trail and do something different once elected if necessary. That's why Reagan raised taxes in '83 and '84. That's why George H.W. Bush raised taxes in '89. It's called Keynesian economics, and it has been our rough model since the New Deal and World War II. Sometimes tax increases and spending cuts are necessary to curb inflation. The idea that tax cuts always help our economy thrive is absurd.
    Yep.
     
  15. D_Kaye Throttlebottom

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    chizz: and my criticizing McCain for stating he would make tax cuts permanent (if elected) is at odds w/ your statement how?

    I'm aware of the outside forces of the economy. Moreso what are we producing that gives us value - to invest in our markets. To wit those jobs are not here any more - but are outsourced elsewhere. Value of the dollar is dropping - check. Spending out of control - check. Got off the gold standard and inflation results - check. Can we get back to the gold standard? To control inflation? Not likely. Gold is worth more now and our dollar is losing value.

    What on earth is making the tax cut on the richest permanent - going to do to change the above? That tax bracket is outsourcing cheaper labor by contracting outside the US? What can the fed do to encourage buying - lower interest rates - but our gross national product is what??? Who is going to invest in the US w/t a 2 percent rate of return. So the president doesn't control interest rates. Yet they have helped to outsource our value (produce what?) for cheap labor (mexico, India and Europe don't pay american income taxes) - so who picks up the tab for the lack of income tax revenue.

    Suggesting this president cut the gas tax - when there is no support for it and if we responded by driving more - it would create more of a demand on oil and companies would respond by raising prices. As a consumer - we'd get no relief in the price as a result. Then we have a deficit in the highway transportation fund to refurbish bridges and highway - from the cut in the gas tax.

    my vote isn't about who takes a shot w/ GW or who is more sympathetic to whether I like to hunt or pray.




     
  16. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Regardless of what Clinton did (or didn't do), he managed to get the economy going in the right direction. Which is a lot to be said comapred to many other presidents. The links below will show the National Debt and where it stood from President to President for several decades.

    And we'll have to disagree about Bush Two inheriting a recession. By the end of Clinton's second term, the National Debt was decreased by over 8%. That's not a sign of a recession if you ask me. Even with the Dot-Com crash of 2000-2003, IMO it was really the war & growing gas prices that helped cause it. If only our current administration handled the situation better and waited to have the support of their allies, then maybe we wouldn't have to shoulder so much of the war expenses.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms
    http://dkosopedia.com/wiki/Data_on_National_Debt_by_President
     
  17. transformer_99

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    And Bush will hand off an economy that's crashing harder than the dot com bust with his $ 4+/gallon gasoline, a war machine that's behind by $ 1/2 trillion and growing, then there's the property flipping/real estate bust.

    I'm all for tax cuts/rebates when inflation is in check. All this rebate serves is to do exactly what the 2001 rebates did. A wealth transfer fueling inflation as an economic stimulus package. Funny, Bush sold his first tax rebate as something Americans could pocket and save towards retirement and so on. The market reacted and inflation stripped every penny and then some from those receiving rebate checks. As for the rebate I've yet to receive, gasoline is up 80 cents/gallon from the day Bush announced this one in mid January 2008. That's $ 16 a week on fuel alone. Granted it wasn't a lump increase, but it's been a nickle and dimeing process. By mid-summer, that rebate will become a deficit just like it was in 2001.

    Wyld's opening commentary on tax cuts and rebates creating opportunities, I disagree with that statement too. There are far too many wolves/entrepreneurs raising the prices on us for these cuts/rebates to create opportunities for anyone other than the wealthier and already established. Right now, we're in the midst of a tax rebate and employment is going south and the similarity, the same thing happened throughout 2001.

    Guess we'll ride this out and weather the bad times once again ? I pity the next person in office, there won't be any wars to start to distract this time, just pure domestic economic misery. The war may be a drain, but it does employ 150+K soldiers and others. When the plug is pulled on that, it'll be Gulf War I all over again. The military will downsize to save money, those people/soldiers will have whatever bonus money they received to re-enlist during the Iraq war to blow or live off of, because the economy will head deeper into recession. Who knows, maybe we go after Iran this time ?

    Sorry for the pessimism everyone, but 8 years ago we couldn't afford a 2nd Bush as President. I certainly hope there aren't any more with White House aspirations after this one ?
     
  18. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    first, one of them has to get elected
     

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  19. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    You can and should blame Bush for a lot but hi gas prices is the fault of the Fed Reserve and monetary policy.
     
  20. HazelGod

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    You made an Herculean leap of logic with that statement, and I'd like to see you fill in the gaps.

    Exactly how are the Fed's fiscal policies influential on the prices of refined gasoline?
     
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