She's also a head of state for me. But one that is royal.
Is she superior as human? No. Is she socially superior? Yes.
I'd like to be equal to her as well. But that is just not the case. If someone bows for a royal, it doesn't mean he or she will do everything what the monarch says. It's more a form of politeness and greeting these days. And not so much the: you are superior. (Although I'm aware it does give that message).
One of the things that pissed me off in my stay in England was that the British people had to pony up 15 quid to stroll thru Buckingham Palace! If I were a retired RAF pilot who risked life and limb to fight the Nazis pver Britain, I should be able to walk up knock on the fucking door and get a free guided tour of the I saved.
Charge us Yanksand
:rofl: I got it , thought it was darn funny too. :biggrin1:
Ok. Can I say how goddamned HAPPY I am that we have a true gentlemen representing the U.S. - someone who I do not have to secretly feel ashamed about nor embarrassed for? I hope the Brits and Russians and Chinese see that Obama is a decent, sensible, rational guy looking for an equitable solution...
'...Government-backed class system'?! You've got that wrong.Yeah, that makes sense. Here in the US we're citizens. In the UK you're subjects. You have a government-backed class system. That's not a value judgment, btw. How your country runs the government is up to your people and I respect that. There are many advantages to a parliamentary system such as the UK has developed. As I've said many times, please don't ditch the royals because they create far too much fun over here.
One of the things that pissed me off in my stay in England was that the British people had to pony up 15 quid to stroll thru Buckingham Palace! If I were a retired RAF pilot who risked life and limb to fight the Nazis pver Britain, I should be able to walk up knock on the fucking door and get a free guided tour of the I saved.
Charge us Yanksand
Yeah, that makes sense. Here in the US we're citizens. In the UK you're subjects. <snip> As I've said many times, please don't ditch the royals because they create far too much fun over here.
Sadly, we're no longer subjects of Her Majesty. We're British Citizens now. I think the change was made in the late '70s and had something to do with immigration controls. Being a citizen can (theoretically) be revoked. Being a subject, which was immutable, was a two-way thing, not just some form of serfdom. It imposed a duty of care and protection on the Crown.
It's also an advantage to have a head of state who's not a politician and who sticks around, gaining experience and having a long-term point of view.
As far as I'm concerned President Obama did quite the right thing in bowing to the Queen. Ive never heard of this rule that Americans are exempt from respectful courtesy and can think of loads Americans who have had no difficulty with it.The protocol is that Americans bow to nobody unless the bow is expected to be returned (as in Japan).
If that is indeed the case then clearly a bow is required. There are very few people these days who equal or exceed the Queen in rank and the President of the United States is certainly not one of them.It's like the old military saying, "You salute the rank, not the man (or woman).
Of course you do. Its her home Do u let randomers off the street "stroll" through your house?One of the things that pissed me off in my stay in England was that the British people had to pony up 15 quid to stroll thru Buckingham Palace!
As far as I'm concerned President Obama did quite the right thing in bowing to the Queen. Ive never heard of this rule that Americans are exempt from respectful courtesy and can think of loads Americans who have had no difficulty with it.
If that is indeed the case then clearly a bow is required. There are very few people these days who equal or exceed the Queen in rank and the President of the United States is certainly not one of them.
Of course you do. Its her home Do u let randomers off the street "stroll" through your house?
Believe it or not it was the Queen that initiated the 'hug'!
The Queen scrapped protocol to arrange this visit, it was not in an official capacity. Unusual indeed.
The First Lady and The Queen hit it off, at the end of the luncheon, the Queen joked about their height difference and there were giggles from the two of them.
Then the Queen (this is absolutely unheard of!) placed her arm around Michelle. Michelle did the same with the Queen.
The Queen hugged Michelle Obama!! Brilliant...and really sweet actually.
Here's a pic of the moment!
View attachment 59603
Edit: Urgent hugflash (LOL) it appears that Michelle may have initiated the hug...the Telegraph reports that the Queen initiated the hug, the Mail that the First Lady initiated the hug!! We must know the truth!! No matter though, it is extraordinary even if Michelle initiated the hug as the Queen obviously returned it! WOW!
We're not different. That's the point. We acknowledge, "no foreign sovereign, potentate, or ruler," to be superior as an American is only sovereign to himself. She may be royalty to you (not sure where you live), but to us she is only a head of state. She is not superior because of crown, birth, or blood. Bowing is an indication of subservience in these situations; an acknowledgment of superiority as the queen does not curtsy in return. When two leaders of sovereign countries meet, they meet as equals. Monarchs do not ever bow or curtsy to each other either. An American official representing the United States does not act subservient to anyone as they are not our masters.
This has been official US protocol since the very beginning of the country. It is expected that representatives of the United States give and receive physical greetings such as are the custom of the land they travel to so long as such greetings are expected to be reciprocated in kind and do not demonstrate servility. Bowing or curtsying to the queen does that so we (officially) do not.
It may shock you to know that Americans do not acknowledge royalty beyond the role they represent in their country's government. Our government was formed under the proposition, "... that all men are created equal." That's the official position of the United States as that phrase is enshrined in our first document, The Declaration of Independence of the United States. The Constitution of the United States goes on to enhance this by saying:No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.As you can imagine, when all this was written anti-monarchist sentiment was very high, however it was not lost on Americans that a good many people fought and died against the very crown Obama is (now) bowing to and so the whole, Americans bow to nobody thing came into being and that has never changed. The newly minted country couldn't very well send ambassadors to Britain and then have them bowing and scraping to various lords and the king. It would have infuriated the American people no end.
A private American citizen can do whatever he or she likes including accepting foreign titles.
One of the things that pissed me off in my stay in England was that the British people had to pony up 15 quid to stroll thru Buckingham Palace! If I were a retired RAF pilot who risked life and limb to fight the Nazis pver Britain, I should be able to walk up knock on the fucking door and get a free guided tour of the I saved.
Charge us Yanksand