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Obama or Warren: who do you trust more?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by mallak, Apr 21, 2015.

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Who do you trust more regarding the TPP?

  1. Elizabeth Warren

    15 vote(s)
    93.8%
  2. Barack Obama

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. mallak

    mallak Well-Known Member

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    Elizabeth Warren is raising concerns that the possible upcoming TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership) deal will worsen income inequality and allow multinational corporations to overrule nations' capabilities to write their own environmental, labor and financial regulations. Obama responds by saying Warren is wrong without saying why, and not allowing anyone to read the private deal. Should we just trust Obama?

    Obama: Elizabeth Warren Is Simply Wrong On TPP

    (question applies to TTIP too)
     
    #1 mallak, Apr 21, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2015
  2. JTalbain

    JTalbain Well-Known Member

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    It's honestly difficult to say on this. I've heard bad things about the TPP, usually from Democrats actually, but it's impossible to say what to believe while the details of the treaty are classified.
     
  3. Perados

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    Warren is correct. TTIP is a threat to democracy, will distroy small companies to the benefits of multi national companies. Also, it will undermine european standards in food, envirement and consumer rights.
    With TTIP neither the USA nor the EU will be able to run new laws, without the agreement of large companies.

    The thing that should let us worry about the "benefits" of TTIP is, that all the negotiations are top secret.
     
  4. slurper_la

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    And it sets up a system whereby international companies can sue American companies for trade infringement outside the U.S. Court system
     
  5. JTalbain

    JTalbain Well-Known Member

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    Have the details been officially released yet? Dammit, where's Edward Snowden when you need him?!? :tongue:

    But yeah, I've yet to hear anything really positive about this bill. There's been enough negative press that I don't think the whole "fast tracking" measure that Obama asked for is going to fly on this one.
     
  6. Perados

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    Some things have been leaked...
    Before a law gets created, ask companies first
    If a new law could limit the benefits of an investment, the law creating nation has to compensate the investors minimized benefits.
    International companies can sue states outside the regular court system.

    In general do nations (in this case eu and usa) agree on the lowest common standart. This will reduce or limit standards we are used to.

    If you dont trust the informations been leaked, look at the treaty between mexico, usa and canada or between eu and canada - these treaties do already exist and are similar to TTIP

    The mexico/usa/canada treaty is inly to the benefit of large companies and has in total distroyed 2 million jobs (mainly in mexico)
     
    #6 Perados, Apr 21, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2015
  7. MisterVIP

    Gold Member Verified

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    One is a crony capitalist/fascist who uses buzzwords that appeal to fools and marxists and the other is more of a communist (if only in the sense that everyone else but her and others with political power should forfeit their earnings for the 'greater good').

    Who do I trust?

    Conan's father said it well, "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts...(holds sword) this you can trust."
     
  8. vince

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    International trade disputes should be and usually are, settled by arbitral panels agreed to by the parties to the treaties, outside of the national court systems. Rules of trade would almost impossible to implement otherwise. NAFTA has such a panel and rulings have gone for and against the USA. US lumber producers sued Canada repeatedly for allegedly dumping products into the US market. They lost every time as far as I remember, but there may be more recent cases I am not aware of.

    There is a famous case in the 1990's of the the US based Ethyl corporation suing Canada for for banning a heavy metal additive to gasoline. MMT was banned for sale in the USA and when the Parliament of Canada passed a law to ban it's sale, Ethyl Corp. sued.
    How Canada Became a Shill for Ethyl Corp. | Canadian Environmental Law Association

    I think I trust Senator Warren on this one.
     
  9. mallak

    mallak Well-Known Member

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    Australia has rejected the investor-state dispute clause section , and will not have to be subjected to that part of the agreement, but countries still want to trade with Australia, why should every other country in the agreement lose its sovereignty to these mysterious arbitrators except Australia?

    http://www.sierraclub.ca/en/main-page/multiple-countries-rejecting-investor-state-dispute-settlement
    http://www.telesurtv.net/english/ne...P-Favors-Foreign-Companies-20150326-0028.html
     
    #9 mallak, Apr 22, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2015
  10. malakos

    malakos Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Not really. Real Marxists are not foolish enough to fall for Obama's trickery.

    Only in La-La Land does that add up to communism, even if true.
     
    #10 malakos, Apr 22, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2015
  11. mallak

    mallak Well-Known Member

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  12. bar4doug

    bar4doug Well-Known Member

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    I will read the article later today, but if it is like NAFTA or China's admission to the WTO, then this will do nothing but accelerate "Death by China", which is something I recommend everyone watch on Netflix.

    The goal of multi-national corporations is no longer in alignment with the goals of the US government in way of middle-class jobs here in the States. We have become a nation of consumers, not manufacturers.

    As long as people are willing to pay for low-cost imports, the US Middle Class will continue to suffer.
     
  13. littleguyhugedick

    littleguyhugedick Well-Known Member

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    This is like asking which do you trust more a Crocodile or a Alligator.
     
  14. StormfrontFL

    StormfrontFL Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that you are merely tolerated here? Try expressing an opinion(one that is based in reality)

    I'm not 100% sold on the TPP. Caution is the watch word.
     
  15. Klingsor

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    Maybe that's your problem right there.
     
  16. Bardox

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    Do not listen to him MisterVIP. Trust only in the power of your shotty! :AR15firing:
     
  17. slurper_la

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  18. JTalbain

    JTalbain Well-Known Member

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    It's not the first time Grayson has criticized the TPP. He's on a committee that gets to see the whole proposal, but the same information isn't available to everyone else. It would be nice to be able to see all of the information in context, but I don't know if that will happen. Why the secrecy? I think that is the most suspicious element of this trade agreement.

    I do still find it interesting that the only criticism of the TPP seems to be coming from Democratic rather than Republican politicians, despite Obama's general support of it. It seems to say to me that the law seems to align more with Republican than Democratic views in general. If everything that has leaked is accurate, it would certainly be favorable for those who identify as Libertarian, but I still can't be sure how accurate that info is.

    EDIT: Just watched Grayson's video. Fairly enlightening, and I hadn't heard of the information links that he mentioned. About the only thing that I would disagree with that he said is the idea that only huge corporations have benefitted from free trade. While they certainly do benefit, the increased demand for labor in other countries has caused some gains for those countries as well. There's a reason China has been somewhat enriched over the past couple decades.

    I do definitely think some more restrictions should be placed however. One of the biggest issues that led to the Civil War was the issue of economics, because slave labor meant extremely low costs for the South. Establishing minimum levels of human rights, wages, etc. in order for a country to participate in trade agreements could certainly help along those lines.
     
    #18 JTalbain, Apr 30, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015
  19. ClintHardBall

    ClintHardBall Banned

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    Well let's see Barry has been lying since he got into office. Warren started during her campaign hmmmmmmmm they are both lyiers so who cares
     
  20. Fuzzy_

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    Yes, he even said that he was born in the USA.
     
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