Obama sides with Bush on Afghanistan/Pakistan

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Elmer Gantry, Jan 27, 2009.

  1. Elmer Gantry

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    No change, just more of the same.

    Suspected US missiles kill 15 in Pakistan

    Suspected US missile strike kills 5 in Pakistan

    Robert Gates Says More Troops for Afghanistan by Summer
    YouTube - Gates Says More Troops for Afghanistan by Summer

    Why did he keep this guy around? Where's all the change at? The Afghanistan campaign has now grown to include the Pakistani frontier, whether the Pakistanis like it or not.

    The Pakistanis are trying to do the right thing.

    Pakistan nets Al Qaeda man wanted for London attacks

    22 militants killed near Afghan/Pakistan border: officials

    But the Pakistani govt is hanging on by it's fingertips in the face of growing public anger at the US incursions into the NW provinces.

    But duplicity like this:

    Americans are not your enemy, Obama tells Mideast

    Is why their are a few skyscrapers short in New York these days.

    Pakistan has a bomb (it has many) and it has a lot of militant Muslims all looking for an excuse. The ISI is also very good at covert operations, both domestically and abroad. In total, they are a much larger threat to the USA and the continuation of the current policy will end in a bigger clusterfuck than Iraq could ever hope to be.

    And us westerners will all sit around and cry "Why do they hate us so?".
     
  2. Industrialsize

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    you're funny
     
  3. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    What Industrialsize said...
     
  4. Elmer Gantry

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    I'm not trying to be funny and I'm trying so hard to believe in Obama's change but this is a very serious situation that's only getting worse.
     
  5. Industrialsize

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    I guess you weren't listening during the campaign when candidate Obama repeated, over and over, that the war in Iraq was a distraction from the REAL problem in waziristan Pakistan...That IS change, draw down in Pakistan while we draw up in Pakistan, Home of Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban.
     
  6. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Again, what Industrialsize said... :biggrin:
     
  7. Elmer Gantry

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    So bombing a sovereign country against their wishes helps this problem in what way?
     
  8. tripod

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    Obama wants to live.

    The Industrial Military Complex wants a war

    If you stand in their way, you will die

    Obama wants to live and will give the Industrial Military Complex their war. It's no secret that the I.M.C. is more powerful than the office of the president. There just isn't anything that he can do about it with the current power structure the way that it is here in America.

    I agree with your confusion and outrage though, but Obama is here to fix our country after the Bush and Co. coup of 2000 and he can't do it from the grave.
     
  9. Industrialsize

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    I'll paraphrase Obama:

    If we have "actionable intelligence" regarding the existence of high level Al_Qaeda operatives in Pakistan and the Pakistani government can't or won't take action, WE WILL.

    That's what he is doing..........I guess you weren't listening during the campaign CH.....he must have said that above phrase 100's of times in debate and on the stump.
     
  10. tripod

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    I think that Chuck was just wondering why he was making those promises. The war in Afghanistan is not going to be won with more bombs and bloodshed and increasing the troop levels is just going to inflame the war not end it.

    I was thinking that Obama knows this, yet wants to not be assassinated.

    Chuck and I just don't happen to believe in the war in Afghanistan.

    Invading armies and Afghanistan don't really mix all that well... Chuck can speak for himself, but that is just my opinion.

    You are dead right about his campaign promises though Indy. :smile:
     
  11. D_Cyprius Slapwilly

    D_Cyprius Slapwilly New Member

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    Unfortunately, there isn't really more than one side to the Afghanistan/Pakistan issue inside of the Washington beltway. Obama campaigned to the right of McCain on this issue in a sense, so this should be expected. They may have picked at hairs about rhetoric, but the GOP and Democrats typically agree that we need to have a lasting presence in this region. It's unfortunate for those of us who think that we shouldn't be in Afghanistan any more than Iraq, as we have to elected officials to turn to.
     
  12. D_Cyprius Slapwilly

    D_Cyprius Slapwilly New Member

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    It doesn't. It didn't help in the Iraq, it didn't help in Afghanistan, and it won't help in Pakistan.

    Funny, though, to remember hearing Republicans suddenly concerned about bombing "sovereign nations" after Mr. Obama made those comments about Pakistan. I felt like I was living in a parallel universe.
     
  13. Elmer Gantry

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    I was listening and all I heard was "Change, change, blah-di-fuckity-blah".

    His "actionable intelligence" has a civilian hit ratio of 60% so far. Bombing people with drones sounds clever but is a very indescriminate way of dealing with an "enemy" who is entrenched inside a civilian population. Especially when it is on an allies soil against that govt's and it's populations wishes.

    The Pakistanis send actual people in and remove 22 militants from the equation with no civilian casualties. It is Pakistan after all and they have the right to.

    I'm getting a very bad wiff from this already.
     
  14. tripod

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    Blah HA HA HA HA HA HA HAh!!!!!!

    Ahhhh, it's the aroma of the Industrial Military Complex... it smells like a rotting corpse all sickly sweet and vomit inducing.
     
  15. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    Obama is going to kill Osama and his Egyptian doctor and then we will leave.

    We don't want a quagmire and without a monied man about town Afghanistan is, well, Afghanistan. If sheep herders want the shame of wives who self-immolate from utter dispair from now until the end of time, who cares? It is on the other side of the world. If another Osamie shows up we fly in and kill him too.

    Did you hear the latest. The Taliban has destroyed scores of schools and forbids children older than 7 to go to school. This is the talent pool to threaten our future safety? Ans: No.

    We don't have the time, money, or talent to waste in such a sparsely populated, instransigently and corruptly lead fiefdom.
     
    #15 B_spiker067, Jan 27, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2009
  16. Elmer Gantry

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    I'll be well impressed if he can pull that off. In fact, I'd say he's a bloody magician.

    I also have a suspicion (which I've aired elsewhere on this forum) that we've been shadow boxing for a couple of years now.
     
  17. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    If the Taliban wants power, then it give to them. Leave, watch and then get him. When you are the established power you have to defend, you aren't hiding. Pretty simple strategy really. It's probably what we should do - leave.


    But stay in Iraq. It's panning out maybe.

    P.S. I do care if Afghani women burn themselves and their children are forced from school. But what can you possibly do about within reason.
     
    #17 B_spiker067, Jan 27, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2009
  18. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    precisely why the militant Islamists pursue this strategy

    knowing full well that their support will grow as both the number of civilian casualties, and the anger of the populace grows
     
  19. Elmer Gantry

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    Yeah, that's right. So it's the old "putting out the fire with kerosene" syndrome over and over again.
     
  20. B_bi_in_socal

    B_bi_in_socal New Member

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    Aha! The first sighting of "Battered Liberal Syndrome".

    The belief that the violence of Islamic extremists is somehow OUR fault. Never mind the fact that these people also have beef with Hindu's, Buddhists, Sikhs, Agnostics, Atheists, gay people, transsexuals, lesbians, capitalists, democrats and Republicans. Nope!

    It's OUR fault they hate us LOL!!!!!

    May I suggest you head to your nearest "Battered Liberal Shelter"?

    Maybe you'll meet other liberals of like mind and start a company where you read and publish only "Islamic extremists" tolerant newsletters.

    You can publish a story about how our defense of Israel, Kashmir, India, Gansu, Mindanao and London from Islamic extremists are to blame for suicide bombings, train bombings, missiles attacks and other Islamic campaigns of terror.

    I mean, you can tell us but I don't know if the people of India would believe you seeing as how Muslims have been attacking them for 60 some odd years now.

    I wonder what THEY did?
     
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