Obama Took Himself off Michigan's Ballot

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Trinity, Mar 6, 2008.

  1. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Obama requested his named be removed from the Michigan ballot.

    It was Obama's choice to remove his name. Obama did not have his name removed from the Florida Ballot because to do so he would have had to drop out of the race. Obama believed that Michagan and Florida were states he wouldn’t do well in so when MI and FL otherwise known as the rule breakers, were stripped of their delegates by the DNC, all candidates agreed not to campaign there.

    Obama initiated the political power play to have the candidates agree to remove their names from the Michigan ballot in order to remove focus from those elections. Obama essentially catered to traditional early voting states like Iowa, N.H in deference to their historical role in the primaries and at the same time ensured that no attention would be paid to those Primaries where Clinton was favored. Why not make that power move? Obama loses nothing but has everything to gain at the time. The DNC already stripped the delegates. Obama also would enable himself to cry foul or unfairness in the event of a close race by claiming that he wasn’t even on the ballot. But why wasn’t he? He wasn’t on the ballot because he chose not to be on the ballot. See the Story from the Associated Press below.

    Florida rules made it impossible for candidates to remove their names from the Florida ballot without withdrawing from the entire race, but Edwards and Richardson followed suit behind Obama in Michigan. It means little to those two now, but with just a few hundred pledged delegates separating the two remaining candidates Clinton and Obama, the MI and FL votes mean a great deal now.

    Again, Obama chose not to be on the ballot when the good people of Michigan voted.

    Whether Obama considered it a "beauty contest" or not (by the way that is the most offensive characterization of my vote imaginable by Obama) he should have just left his name on the ballot.

    The DNC should seat the Michigan and Florida delegates with the Primary Votes As Stands.
    No Do Overs, No Revote, No Repeat Primaries.
    Both Contests were FAIR. No candidate campaigned in Florida so the vote was fair. All candidates were on the ballot to begin with and Obama requested to be removed. His choice, but fair.

    The DNC should seat the delegates and move on. No more discussion of millions of dollars and who pays or changing primary parameters. The DNC has already sanctioned and effectively punished the two states...neither had benefit of the candidates campaigning so that they could put their state issues front and center on the nominee's mind. The voters did not request to move up the primaries, therefore the voters should not be disenfranchised. Lastly, if we did not have a DO OVER when Katharine Harris certified an illegal election in Florida, when hanging chads practically destroyed voter confidence in the American Electoral system, then a Do Over certainly is not in order because Obama took himself out.

    The Democratic National Party needs election reform because our process is killing us.
    Top Democrats withdraw from Michigan primary
    By: The Associated Press
    Oct 9, 2007 01:37 PM EST
    [​IMG]
    The decision by Obama, Richardson, and Edwards undercuts the validity of the contest.
    Photo: Composite image by Politico.com

    LANSING, Mich. (AP) - Barack Obama, John Edwards and Bill Richardson have withdrawn from Michigan's Jan. 15 Democratic presidential primary.

    The three filed paperwork Tuesday, the deadline to withdraw from the ballot, said Kelly Chesney, spokeswoman for the Michigan Secretary of State's office.

    All of the Democratic candidates already have agreed not to campaign in Michigan because it broke Democratic National Committee rules when it moved its primary ahead of Feb. 5. The decision by Obama, Edwards and Richardson undercuts the validity of the contest.

    Other Democratic candidates had until the end of the day to decide if they'll stay on the ballot.

    Party rules say states cannot hold their 2008 primary contests before Feb. 5, except for Iowa on Jan. 14, Nevada on Jan. 19, New Hampshire on Jan. 22 and South Carolina on Jan. 29.

    The calendar was designed to preserve the traditional role that Iowa and New Hampshire have played in selecting the nominee, while adding two states with more racial and geographic diversity to influential early slots.

    As punishment, the DNC has vowed to strip Michigan and Florida, which scheduled its contest on Jan. 29, of their delegates.

    Top Democrats withdraw from Michigan primary - The Associated Press - Politico.com
     
  2. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    Whether Obama withdrew as a "political power play" or not; which seems stupid considering he was following the rules and everybody else did it too except for Hillary, but whatever; it would still be grossly unfair to seat delegates from States that the Democratic party already announced would not count. If those delegates wanted to play they should have played by the rules. The Democratic party isn't beholden to Michigan's and Florida's desire to cheat and make themselves more relevant.

    Asserting that the primaries were fair is also ridiculous. Clinton was the only one on the ballot in one state, and the only one campaigning in the other.
     
  3. HazelGod

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    Yes, it sucks, and I'd be pissed if it were my state, too...but your anger is misdirected. None of the candidates are responsible for your disenfranchisement.

    If you want someone to blame, point the fingers directly at your state legislators. They changed your state's primary election having full knowledge of the consequences of such action. Instead of sniping on an internet forum about big cocks, you should be on the phone with your state capitol letting them know what a piss-poor job they've done representing your interests and demanding to know what they're doing to fix it.

    The long and short of it is that the results of the primary elections in those states are worthless for numerous reasons, not the least of which being that the electorate had already been informed their delegates would have no voice in the party nomination.
     
  4. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    quoted for truth.

    further, any argument that delegates from MI and FL should be seated that includes a measure that there should be "No Do Overs, No Revote, No Repeat Primaries." is obviously more about the interests of Hillary Clinton than about the interests of MI and FL. If they're going to seat the delegates from these two states at all they need a do-over, but personally I think they shouldn't be seated.
     
  5. hotbtminla

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    Add to it the irony that if Michigan's and Florida's state legislatures hadn't voted to disobey the DNC rules and kept their original primary dates they would have actually had huge influence on the nominations.

    Michigan and Florida results are totally invalid unless then hold new primaries (Michigan is apparently considering a redo caucus). None of the candidates were allowed to campaign in either state; the fact that Obama (and all the Dem candidates at the time except for Hillary) withdrew from the Michigan ballot is just as irrelevant as the results.
     
  6. gjorg

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    Again it is the voters who are getting fucked. These two states need some kind of punishment for there arrogance! Lets not punish ourselves but figure out something to do with rogue legislators.Remmember the legislators in these states are democrats and REPUBLICANS.Democrats across the nation should not have to pay a price for these assholes!
     
  7. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    good points, gjorg. What would you suggest?
     
  8. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    I thought she didn't campaign in either, though she visited Florida after the results.
    May be wrong of course.
     
  9. Industrialsize

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    she was the only name on the Michcigan Ballot and yes she won.....but not by much:
    Clinton;55%
    Uncomitted; 44%

    and actually I think the POWER PLAY was by Senator Clinton in LEAVING her name on the ballot.
     
  10. hotbtminla

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    She didn't campaign or advertise in either state - none of the Dems were allowed to.

    She did, however, fly to Florida the night she "won" to hold a party for supporters, which was criticized by the other Dems as a dubious tack to get around the no-campaigning rules.
     
  11. Skull Mason

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    There are good arguments to both sides. I think it really comes down to who you prefer. If you like obama then you don't want those states to count. If you like hillary, you make the opposite argument. Just look at the posts in this thread going one way or the other by people who have posted before who they favor. They should count, just as every vote should count, but they should have counted from the beginning. But it is what it is.

    If obama ends up with a small lead in delegates, and florida and/or michigan would turn the delegate count in hillary's favor, I think it is kind of fucked up that they won't factor in. But the dems dug their own grave on this one.

    I was also under the impression that hillary did not campaign in florida either.
     
  12. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    But that wasn't campaigning, so what was dubious about it?
     
  13. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    I believe you need to look into the rules a bit more. The candidates agreed not to campaign in the states that moved their primaries. Removing their names from the ballot was not apart of "the rules" or the agreement.

    Obama decided to do that on his own. Clinton did not play into that.

    No candidates Campaigned in Michigan or Florida. Hillary went to Florida after the Primary to thank the voters.

    Both Primaries were fair and the votes should stand.

     
  14. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    Technically no candidate was allowed to campaign in either, though some have accused Clinton of sneaking in some campaigning. Through public statements she made on national television or radio about Florida, national television spots that aired at times suspiciously close to the Florida primaries, and through various underlings.

    My Way News - Clinton to Campaign in Florida
    AFSCME Campaigning In Florida For Clinton - Politics on The Huffington Post

    Granted, it makes sense that she was more outspoken than any other candidate about overturning the decision to not count the Florida primary, since she was favored to win in the State. but many of the statements she made were obviously pandering to Florida voters as well.

    Not a clear cut issue, but whether candidates were not campaigning at all, or they were instead campaigning sneakily so as not to be reprimanded for it, it wasn't an open and fair primary and should be redone if it's going to be counted at all.
     
  15. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    It would take a Clinton supporter to argue that a ballot with one name on it was a fair election. Sounds like Democracy in action to me. Or at least Cuba's version of it.
     
  16. hotbtminla

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    Twas a dubious claim of dubiousness Rubi. (say that out loud :biggrin1:) The criticism was that it was a thinly veiled victory party, which they felt was inappropriate considering no one could campaign there.
     
  17. hotbtminla

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    Aside: any guesses on Trinity's former identities here?
     
  18. HazelGod

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    The part where she shows up at rally organized by a group called Florida for Hillary that carefully birdseeds that they are "not affiliated with Hillary Clinton for President." Ugh.

    See for yourself.
     
  19. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    was wondering the same thing but no good guesses.

    on the other hand, she's tried every other desperate trick in the book... maybe it's actually Hillary Clinton and she's joined LPSG to reach the coveted demographic of assholes with big wangs.

    if that's the case... what's the other point in the Trinity of Clintonian power? I assume Hillary and Bill are the first two.
     
  20. Industrialsize

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    And if actually believe that I have a bridge I can sell you. Going to Florida to thank her supporters after a meaningless primary was totally a political move. Remember when it happened. It was right after her drubbing in South Carolina. She went strictly to try to garner some positive press and change the media narrative. For once the media at the time did NOT bite and reported it for what it was. A political stunt.
     
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