Obama Took Himself off Michigan's Ballot

D_Gunther Snotpole

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As a Canadian, I can't understand the depth of passion Americans feel about politics ... I mean, we're less likely to kill someone we disagree with.

I've known some Canadians who were quite passionate about politics. and American politics no less, not even their own. They weren't too polite about points of disagreement, either.

The point being?
Of course some Canadians are passionate about politics ... in fact, I have no problem naming a number.
(And this was especially true back when Quebec separatism really seemed to be crescendoing.)
But we just don't have the polarization that you Yanks have, so our passions, on average, are nowhere near as sweeping.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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The point being?
Of course some Canadians are passionate about politics ... in fact, I have no problem naming a number.
(And this was especially true back when Quebec separatism really seemed to be crescendoing.)
But we just don't have the polarization that you Yanks have, so our passions, on average, are nowhere near as sweeping.

My point being that, even as a Canadian, I'm sure you're able to understand. You're selling yourself short.
 

D_Tintagel_Demondong

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The point being?
Of course some Canadians are passionate about politics ... in fact, I have no problem naming a number.
(And this was especially true back when Quebec separatism really seemed to be crescendoing.)
But we just don't have the polarization that you Yanks have, so our passions, on average, are nowhere near as sweeping.

Don't you think that the separatist movement was as divisive as the wars in the U.S.? We may not have had the bloody battles of the Civil War, but we still almost had our country spit into two. You can't get much more polarized than that.
 

transformer_99

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As a Floridian, I want my vote to count, I don't see how FL or MI is making any difference now or then in terms of delegates. What Clinton gained over last Tuesday was simply winning 3 of 4 states. FL and MI have decent delegate counts, but those usually split proportionally with the popular vote anyway. Hillary wins with 1/2 the delegates Obama's percentage is close to that with some going to Edwards, but really were looking at a just over 100+ delegate count being cut into from 2 states. I have to figure the way Hillary won both of them, Obama still has a slight lead in this race at this point if the delegates were counted. It's pretty much even and probably still is headed for the convention for that aspect of the process to change an inconclusive campaign trail going into the DNC to nominate one or the other.
 

Industrialsize

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As a Floridian, I want my vote to count, I don't see how FL or MI is making any difference now or then in terms of delegates. What Clinton gained over last Tuesday was simply winning 3 of 4 states. FL and MI have decent delegate counts, but those usually split proportionally with the popular vote anyway. Hillary wins with 1/2 the delegates Obama's percentage is close to that with some going to Edwards, but really were looking at a just over 100+ delegate count being cut into from 2 states. I have to figure the way Hillary won both of them, Obama still has a slight lead in this race at this point if the delegates were counted. It's pretty much even and probably still is headed for the convention for that aspect of the process to change an inconclusive campaign trail going into the DNC to nominate one or the other.
Actually when you count both the primary and caucus which took place in Texas, OBAMA won Texas, he came away with more delegates from the state.....
 

D_Kaye Throttlebottom

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Careful how you wave those facts and logic around, Zoe...I'm starting to develop a bit of a crush on you.


sarcasm. I get it.

though someone else mentioned this already. Obama got more delegate votes allocated to him out of Texas because of the way the caucuses are proportioned. Texas was an open primary, so repubs could vote for a democrat candidate and the talk was that they voted Hillary just to prolong a contested Democratic nominee. (there without all extra fluff)
 

HazelGod

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sarcasm. I get it.

No, not this time. Delivered tongue-in-cheek, perhaps, but the sentiment was genuine.


though someone else mentioned this already. Obama got more delegate votes allocated to him out of Texas because of the way the caucuses are proportioned.

Sounds like something I posted. I keep trying to tell these lemmings to stop swallowing the headlines without chewing.
 

D_Kaye Throttlebottom

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No, not this time. Delivered tongue-in-cheek, perhaps, but the sentiment was genuine.




Sounds like something I posted. I keep trying to tell these lemmings to stop swallowing the headlines without chewing.

Yeah you need to tell that to the lemmings that believe Hillary when she says that SHE was the one that negotiated for open borders in Kosovo. :liar:

Forget about her experience with Kosovo...do me a favor and have a sit down with your pals in Texas and clue the lemmings who was at the helm when Al-Qaeda attacked the first time... and again and again and again???

Jan. 93 - Al-Qaeda cut it's teeth w/ the first attack on the WTC (under the Clinton admin)

Sept. 93 - Blackhawk shot down in Somalia and US serviceman bodies were dragged through the street.

Jan. 94 - Clinton cut the defense spending budget by 25% (yeah yeah cold war is over - but a huge chunk of that was the Intelligence, specifically the HUMINT source, cut the big bases overseas I get that, but cut back on intelligence?)

Aug. 96 - Bin Laden publishes the Declaration of war on the US.

Aug. 98 - Al-Qaeda does simultaneous car bombings at four embassys in South Africa - Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya.

Oct. 12, 2000 - Al-Qaeda attacked the USS Cole was attacked while refueling in YEMEN
--- the clinton's sign off on a high note, that they managed to retaliate by doing an air campaign over some abandoned terrorist training camps in Afghanistan for the USS Cole. Didn't get one terrorist.---

GW Assumes office and 9 months in to his presidency
9/11/2001 - Pentagon and both WTC are hit (anyone remember the smell in DC that day?)

The red phone rings in the middle of the night and Hillary's camp is pushing that you would be safer with her in office? WTF?

How the F* did they miss that? So yeah...work on that for me or for your pals that are voting next.


No, she's the last person I want answering the red phone. She's going to tell defense that requires 25 linguists to make do with 8 linguists and then point fingers when something slips.

I'm about 90 percent confident that the next near miss we have in the US will happen w/in the first year of our next president whomever it might be, just because we'll have a change of guard. It appears to go that way (jan 93 WTC and sep 2001 were both executed w/in the first year of new administrations)

I mean at best, he HASN'T failed. She cannot make any assurances we would be safer.
 

Trinity

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Michigan, Iowa and the Games the Politicos Play

by: Lynda Waddington

Thursday (10/11) at 15:09 PM


Iowans are by and large straightforward people. Given that, it should come as no surprise that to the average Iowan, the Michigan ballot situation seems pretty cut and dried: Democratic presidential hopefuls who honor their four-state pledge and support the nomination calendar won't be on the Wolverine State's ballot. As with most things in life, and especially politics, the situation is more complicated.
Five individuals connected to five different campaigns have confirmed -- but only under condition of anonymity -- that the situation that developed in connection with the Michigan ballot is not at all as it appears on the surface. The campaign for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, arguably fearing a poor showing in Michigan, reached out to the others with a desire of leaving New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton as the only candidate on the ballot. The hope was that such a move would provide one more political obstacle for the Clinton campaign to overcome in Iowa.

Lynda Waddington :: Michigan, Iowa and the Games the Politicos Play Despite speaking in confidence, sources were quick to point out that the discussions were not the final deciding factor when candidates' names were removed from the ballot.
"Yes, such discussion did take place," said one national staffer, "but that doesn't mean we were influenced by it. The decision to pull from the Michigan ballot -- or other renegade states' ballots, for that matter -- was made the day we signed the pledge with the four early states."
A contact within a second campaign agreed.
"The belief that this would somehow hurt front-running Clinton in Iowa was icing on an already sweet cake," he said. "The real meal, however, is the good will the move generates not only in Iowa, but in all the states who are playing by the DNC rules and that don't appreciate all of this jumping and chaos."
Candidates who remain on the Michigan ballot are Clinton, Connecticut Sen. Chris Dodd, former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel and (not by his own choosing) Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich. A person close to the Dodd campaign said the push to make Clinton look bad in Iowa and the feeling of being played "like a political pawn" were items discussed by the campaign. But, standing on principle isn't always a comfortable position.
"The campaign did what it thought was right," the source said. "The hope is, of course, that since we were the first to sign the pledge letter and that because we have been so adamant in support of the first states -- especially Iowa -- that those who caucus and vote in the early states will know we support them and their place in the process."
To further drive home their support of Iowa being first, the Dodd campaign is planning several multi-day trips by the senator to the state. Another campaign staff person has estimated that Dodd will be on the ground in Iowa more than 20 days each month between now and caucus night.
It is undoubtedly a gamble for the Dodd campaign. The residents of Iowa and New Hampshire are known for their tenacity when it comes to their status of first caucus and primary in the nation. But Dodd isn't the only candidate with his dice on the table.
Clinton, who recently took the lead in Iowa polling, must try to balance opinions in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada with those of voters in other states. While a first-place finish in Iowa can't really provide her the boost it could to other candidates, a poor showing would put a damper on her nearly established inaugural parade across the nation.
The remaining campaigns have just as much -- if not more -- at stake. For them, the cards are on the table, and it's Iowa or bust. Further, there are some campaigns who may now have to shrug off perceptions by one of the top-tier campaigns that they will act more as allies than as foes -- so long as Clinton is the target.
 

D_Gunther Snotpole

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Of course some Canadians are passionate about politics ... in fact, I have no problem naming a number.
(And this was especially true back when Quebec separatism really seemed to be crescendoing.)
But we just don't have the polarization that you Yanks have, so our passions, on average, are nowhere near as sweeping.

How about Quebec trying to secede? That look rather polarized from down here.

Well, yes and no.
The Front de Liberation du Quebec detonated 200 bombs and kidnapped a couple peeps between 1963 and 1970. And some died. How many? Seven. Too many, but nonetheless a very small number in the larger scheme.
The fact remains that Quebec has been able to elect the Parti Quebecois, a frankly separatist party, to government four times in the last 30 years.
But there has been no war.
There are federalists and separatists cheek by jowl in the same family.
Federalist-inclined people will have separatist friends; the political question will not be discussed.
It is considered boring to many Quebecers.

Don't you think that the separatist movement was as divisive as the wars in the U.S.? We may not have had the bloody battles of the Civil War, but we still almost had our country spit into two. You can't get much more polarized than that.

We didn't split, the level of acrimony is amazingly low (I mean, in what other country would you find so little active animosity?), and the whole question is on the back burner, though God knows, it could re-emerge.
We've even let them know, through the Clarity Act, how they may secede: clear question, significant majority (not just 50 percent plus one), and only after negotiations.
Compare this to the American Civil War.
625,000 dead, more than the toll from the First World War, the Second World War, and Vietnam combined.
So yes, there is a separatist movement, but that fact, when put in context of the remarkable civility with which it is pursued, is indeed a very good indication of how little polarization we have.

My main point, though, was that you simply don't get Liberals hating Conservatives hating NDPers (the socialist party) hating even the Bloc Quebecois (the party that represents those Quebecers who favour separatism in the Canadian Parliament), in anything like the degree that one faction of the Democratic Party seems able to hate another faction, ditto for the Republicans, and the way Dems and Repubs, in so many (though not all) cases, seem to passionately hate each other.

So yes, the level of polarization in Canada is remarkably lower.
It just is.