When in college one of the positions I held required a Union membership and having dealt with numerous Unions in the Movie and Television Industry I can say without doubt that there are good and bad Unions. I was for a time also a Member of the Local 47 (Musician's Union) in Los Angeles when I worked in that field. The reality of this was that it was the Union that assured that I had medical benefits and it was the Union that in many cases kept me employed and making money because the studios would NOT hire Non-Union musicians. The Union assured performance capability to those wanting live musicians, but there were instances that the Union created some problems. The largest being the exportation of jobs to foreign movie scoring. The reason for this was that as a Union Musician one gets royalties/residuals from performances. In other countries the pay scale is actually higher, but, the benefits do not include the royalties or residuals from the single performance. For me the one Union position was a mixed bag, but I would never do music again as a living without being Union. Problems yes, but, many non-member musicians are screwed constantly not receiving pay for their work and finding themselves working for nothing.
obama wants workers join unions
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D_Andreas Sukov
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In America, when you say Middle class, do you mean what us Brits would call working class?
Why would Obama want people to join unions anyway? They might start demanding things like better living standards, more pay and healthcare and that would *gulp* affect profits!
Why would Obama want people to join unions anyway? They might start demanding things like better living standards, more pay and healthcare and that would *gulp* affect profits!
midlifebear
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Like Fuzzy Ken being a member of a musicians union local, I worked for several years as a stage hand. I had to have a permit from the Internal Alliance of Theatrical and Stage Employees (IATSE). The first year I wasn't a member of IATSE, I just had their permission to work as a stage hand at $15.00 an hour -- much more than I was able to make doing anything else except tend bar. After a year I was "invited" to join IATSE. I joined. Suddenly I was making $30.00 an hour and paying a whopping $40 a month in union dues. I kept this up for two more years and then tapered off when I was accepted to graduate school.
I rather enjoyed being a union "brother", but had I remained in that line of work I woud most likely be dead from a drug overdose or alcoholism. At the time my union "brothers" and "sisters" were far too interested into snorting their paychecks up their noses. This still continues. But the union health benefits were great. And despite the rampant drug use, I have yet to meet a more professional group of people in any other field. No one was ever high at work.
The women who work in my bar/restaurant in Elko are occasionally approached by the food and beverage workers union that is hard set like cement in Las Vegas and Reno. Every time they have been approached, they've met and discussed the pros and cons. As yet, they see no reason to ruin a good thing. I give them free reign to manage the kitchen, tend bar and waitress. I've told them "This is your restaurant. Serve what you would like to eat that isn't offered anywhere else in town." What is on the menu is what they have decided should be on the menu. Hence, the food is substantially above the usual fare served in the casinos. And bless their hearts, they recognized a market for fancy non alcohol drinks for "the ladies of Elko who like to lunch" and not careen home with a buzz on. And these same concoctions can be easily spiked with a shot of gin or vodka upon request. The grenadine lemonade they advertise as a Thursday special is very popular as is their ginger ale with pineapple/orange juice ice cubes. I worked the numbers one day and discovered they were pulling in almost a thousand percent profit on their little lady-like concoctions. And they sell very well during lunch and dinner. However, if they were to join the food and beverage union they'd be seeing a guaranteed wage that is lower than what they, themselves, can generate. For them there is no benefit. Currently, the more money the bar/restaurant makes the more money they make. But if they ever want to join a union they are welcome to. I won't stop them.
As for me, I've been a member of the Writers Guild of America West (WGAW) and the Writers Guild of the America East (WGAE) since 1980. After some naive missteps during graduate school I wouldn't think of developing a project spec, travel article, plush piece for the leisure living section of a paper or magazine, or manuscript of any length without the full force of the Writer's Guild behind me, whether I publish anything or not in a given year. As with Fuzzyken, if you want reproduction rights for something I've created (written), you are going to pay for those rights -- and they'll be protected with so much legalese that I'll have your great great grandchildren for lunch if the terms of the agreement are broached.
I rather enjoyed being a union "brother", but had I remained in that line of work I woud most likely be dead from a drug overdose or alcoholism. At the time my union "brothers" and "sisters" were far too interested into snorting their paychecks up their noses. This still continues. But the union health benefits were great. And despite the rampant drug use, I have yet to meet a more professional group of people in any other field. No one was ever high at work.
The women who work in my bar/restaurant in Elko are occasionally approached by the food and beverage workers union that is hard set like cement in Las Vegas and Reno. Every time they have been approached, they've met and discussed the pros and cons. As yet, they see no reason to ruin a good thing. I give them free reign to manage the kitchen, tend bar and waitress. I've told them "This is your restaurant. Serve what you would like to eat that isn't offered anywhere else in town." What is on the menu is what they have decided should be on the menu. Hence, the food is substantially above the usual fare served in the casinos. And bless their hearts, they recognized a market for fancy non alcohol drinks for "the ladies of Elko who like to lunch" and not careen home with a buzz on. And these same concoctions can be easily spiked with a shot of gin or vodka upon request. The grenadine lemonade they advertise as a Thursday special is very popular as is their ginger ale with pineapple/orange juice ice cubes. I worked the numbers one day and discovered they were pulling in almost a thousand percent profit on their little lady-like concoctions. And they sell very well during lunch and dinner. However, if they were to join the food and beverage union they'd be seeing a guaranteed wage that is lower than what they, themselves, can generate. For them there is no benefit. Currently, the more money the bar/restaurant makes the more money they make. But if they ever want to join a union they are welcome to. I won't stop them.
As for me, I've been a member of the Writers Guild of America West (WGAW) and the Writers Guild of the America East (WGAE) since 1980. After some naive missteps during graduate school I wouldn't think of developing a project spec, travel article, plush piece for the leisure living section of a paper or magazine, or manuscript of any length without the full force of the Writer's Guild behind me, whether I publish anything or not in a given year. As with Fuzzyken, if you want reproduction rights for something I've created (written), you are going to pay for those rights -- and they'll be protected with so much legalese that I'll have your great great grandchildren for lunch if the terms of the agreement are broached.
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B_OtterJoq
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B_OtterJoq
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Bbucko
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Despite claims to the contrary, American society is not "classless" at all, and though social mobility certainly exists here, its actual importance in the lives of everyday folk is minimal. The Meritocracy is overlaid on a grid of social barriers that are quite real.
"Working class" can mean two things. In a judgement-neutral kinda way it is synonymous with "Blue-Collar" and is associated with trades like plumbers and carpenters, etc. As a sociological expression (with its freight of social stratification), it means "brutish" and "mean" with a condescending undertone of domestic violence, alcoholism, etc.
Most Blue-Collar jobs actually pay quite well, especially unionized Blue-Collar jobs, and those who have them enjoy the benefits and prerogatives of their similarly-paid peers in middle-management jobs (which are considered White-Collar). Most would disavow any "working class" label and live inside middle-class lives. Whether one becomes a tradesman or not has more to do with temperament and education than anything else.
"Working class" really means the working poor: those with neither the education nor training for much of anything except as clerks, food service, etc. Those jobs are considered either steps up or down: "lifers" are subject to scorn and intense condescension from the middle and upper classes.
A man that worked at chrysler for 20 years now gets $2400 a month and he says paid in to it at 10.00 a month. 
Bbucko
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A man that worked at chrysler for 20 years now gets $2400 a month and he says paid in to it at 10.00 a month.
A man repeats an anecdote with no corresponding link to back it up
B_OtterJoq
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A man repeats an anecdote with no corresponding link to back it up
Some guy told me that he has a brother whose cousin once roomed with a guy whose sister worked with a gal at the grocery store whose father said that someone told him Obama is a bad president.
So there!
What's your point? That sounds like a pretty decent pension. Depending on when he retired and what he did at the company it could be a very good pension. Either way, it's $28,800 per year more than I'm going to get when I retire. I'd say the $120 per year he paid in union dues to guarantee that pension for life was a damn good investment. Coincidentally, the amount he paid in dues over his working life is equal to one month's pension pay. Fucking whiners.A man that worked at chrysler for 20 years now gets $2400 a month and he says paid in to it at 10.00 a month.
itsthepopei
Legendary Member
Exactly we should bring down all the socialistic programs down and replace them with privet industry.
fire departments
police departments
public education
the military
road systems
and all other government run catastrophes aiding those who dont pay into them. oh w8 that would suck!!!!
There are many organizations that are here to protect the "little guy". Labor Unions and the right for people to organize them were rights that were fought for. It was Labor Unions that historically started the trend away from "child labor". It has also been Labor Unions that have fought hard against the exportation of jobs from United States shores to foreign countries. It is Corporate Management that wants them gone and they will do anything they can to get rid of them including a major campaign of disinformation to mislead those not profiting from their Union Membership.
Are all Labor Unions good? Absolutely Not! Some are corrupt and a mess! Others are decent and serve the people they represent!
As a musician the various organizations that represented me:
ASCAP The music police saw to it that I was paid for my work as an arranger and that anybody "stealing" paid a price for it. Yes, the "music police" can be a major pain in the rear, but, theft of music is rampant. They are by the way the second largest litigator in the United States.
The Local 47. The musicians Local gave me ways to qualify at the time for good rates on what was then very good medical insurance coverage. It gave me ways to invest for a retirement and had people to help me there. The local sent me out on many jobs and was a place that people seeking my services by name could always reach me.
The local saw to it that I was paid at least scale and in some cases they fought for me personally when an engagement organizer or organization tried to get out of paying what had been promised for any reason.
- - - - - -
When I was in College I worked as a diesel truck and bus mechanic. That was a Union position as well. I had to pay in a whopping $46.29 cents per month in the 1970's for their membership. I survived three strikes against the Los Angeles Municipal Bus Line (RTD) at that time and that Union had their problems.
One strike was over pension contributions. The pensions were miserable for this grade of employee being a total of $256 per month and to get that one had to be with the company 46 years. The average monthly pension was at the time about $175.
When the Union approached the employees the issue was pension because that was far more important than salary which was good at the time. After we were marching on picket lines the Union and the press shifted gears claiming that it was a "salary" issue.
We ended up with a $2.00 hourly raise over the following 3 years of the contract and no increase in pension at all.
That union was idiotic. The Union demands" We want a 25 cent per hour increase. The management says we will offer you two dimes and a nickel. The Union then says NO when the offer was in essence meeting their demand.
This was a sad statement of a Union that just had very poor management.
I have seen both good and bad.
- - - - - -
Renting movie vehicles I have had my arguments as owner of a props company with Union rules on set that are sometimes absolutely moronic. Some of these rules actually hold up production and delay shooting schedules. Stunt men are in fact some of the greatest guys on the planet, but the Union that represents them is a major pain in in the rear. Where the musicians Union assured the quality to some degree, the stunt men's Union in Southern California did not. I lost several automobiles to accidents caused by unqualified individuals who were placed behind the steering wheels of these vehicles by their Union. One stunt man was injured on a set in one of my vehicles because though he was qualified for many "tricks" he was not well qualified for automotive or vehicle stunt driving, but because of the Union he was put there anyway. Guys I understand that breaking into a new "trick" realm takes learning time, but the destruction of vehicles in an unplanned manner cost me a great deal of money that I was forced to collect from the production companies. It ran up the costs a great deal!
If a labor union or organization does what is supposed to do then it is good. When it branches out doing other things than it's assigned job it is nothing other than a headache!
Are all Labor Unions good? Absolutely Not! Some are corrupt and a mess! Others are decent and serve the people they represent!
As a musician the various organizations that represented me:
ASCAP The music police saw to it that I was paid for my work as an arranger and that anybody "stealing" paid a price for it. Yes, the "music police" can be a major pain in the rear, but, theft of music is rampant. They are by the way the second largest litigator in the United States.
The Local 47. The musicians Local gave me ways to qualify at the time for good rates on what was then very good medical insurance coverage. It gave me ways to invest for a retirement and had people to help me there. The local sent me out on many jobs and was a place that people seeking my services by name could always reach me.
The local saw to it that I was paid at least scale and in some cases they fought for me personally when an engagement organizer or organization tried to get out of paying what had been promised for any reason.
- - - - - -
When I was in College I worked as a diesel truck and bus mechanic. That was a Union position as well. I had to pay in a whopping $46.29 cents per month in the 1970's for their membership. I survived three strikes against the Los Angeles Municipal Bus Line (RTD) at that time and that Union had their problems.
One strike was over pension contributions. The pensions were miserable for this grade of employee being a total of $256 per month and to get that one had to be with the company 46 years. The average monthly pension was at the time about $175.
When the Union approached the employees the issue was pension because that was far more important than salary which was good at the time. After we were marching on picket lines the Union and the press shifted gears claiming that it was a "salary" issue.
We ended up with a $2.00 hourly raise over the following 3 years of the contract and no increase in pension at all.
That union was idiotic. The Union demands" We want a 25 cent per hour increase. The management says we will offer you two dimes and a nickel. The Union then says NO when the offer was in essence meeting their demand.
This was a sad statement of a Union that just had very poor management.
I have seen both good and bad.
- - - - - -
Renting movie vehicles I have had my arguments as owner of a props company with Union rules on set that are sometimes absolutely moronic. Some of these rules actually hold up production and delay shooting schedules. Stunt men are in fact some of the greatest guys on the planet, but the Union that represents them is a major pain in in the rear. Where the musicians Union assured the quality to some degree, the stunt men's Union in Southern California did not. I lost several automobiles to accidents caused by unqualified individuals who were placed behind the steering wheels of these vehicles by their Union. One stunt man was injured on a set in one of my vehicles because though he was qualified for many "tricks" he was not well qualified for automotive or vehicle stunt driving, but because of the Union he was put there anyway. Guys I understand that breaking into a new "trick" realm takes learning time, but the destruction of vehicles in an unplanned manner cost me a great deal of money that I was forced to collect from the production companies. It ran up the costs a great deal!
If a labor union or organization does what is supposed to do then it is good. When it branches out doing other things than it's assigned job it is nothing other than a headache!
B_talltpaguy
Experimental Member
^Yeah, the people who voted for him.
A) You don't believe that when Chrysler offered him a deferred pension in lieu of higher take home pay at the time, that Chrysler has any obligation to actually honor their contract and pay that deferred compensation like they promised they would.
B) You're mentally retarded.
C) You're so thoroughly blinded by your chosen political ideology that you can't make objective judgments like any sane person does.
This should only bother you ifA man that worked at chrysler for 20 years now gets $2400 a month and he says paid in to it at 10.00 a month.
A) You don't believe that when Chrysler offered him a deferred pension in lieu of higher take home pay at the time, that Chrysler has any obligation to actually honor their contract and pay that deferred compensation like they promised they would.
B) You're mentally retarded.
C) You're so thoroughly blinded by your chosen political ideology that you can't make objective judgments like any sane person does.
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B_OtterJoq
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Oh, lurker...imagine if anything you've posted mattered.
Wouldn't that be...different?
This will drive up the price of a new car hope Chrysler stopped doing this.
Crews Begin Demolishing Fenton Chrysler Plant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUaFSEW4yic
