Obamabot Denial #9... Rick Warren.

vince

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Transformer you should travel. Not a packaged holiday. Just get on a plane go someplace, doesn't matter where, you'll be surprised how helpful 90 percent of people in the world are. Americans aren't hated. People have opinions, sure, but if you smile, they'll smile back and want to help you.

I feel so sorry for frightened, paranoid people, brainwashed by the media and politics.
 

B_VinylBoy

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To me, these "Obamabot Denials" are a series of, by and large inheritances any next President faces from the last 200+ years of history of this nation. We all knew whoever won the Presidency was going to be screwed walking into the job. Where do the "passes" on fixes begin and end on what any next President would have to do just to unf*ck the mess that is attributable to just the last 8 years of Bush alone ?

IMO, these so-called "Obamabot Denials" are just flame bait tactics used to infuriate those who came to the conscious decision to not only vote for Obama, but also to take the good with the bad with their choices. Most gay & lesbian men, in general, are not happy with this decision. That's the "bad". However, the man is only giving a prayer at the inauguration. Not proposing or looking over legislature. That's the "good".

If anything, many people have a problem "turning lemons into lemonade" on this board. They have an unhealthy and unreasonable all-or-nothing attitude when it comes to their political choices, and that always leads to disappointment and failure because no president or president-elect is perfect. That's why I see threads like this from OPs like Faceking and shake my head in disbelief. Because he's one of these all-or-nothing, uncompromising pouters who grew up believing that their president has to do everything HE likes. And the second he does something he doesn't agree with, he points fingers and hopes that people join him with that sky-is-falling rhetoric. The ninth game is just as tired as the other eight.

We already have people throwing their shoes at Bush when he shows up for a public speaking engagement. That's just one level of bad publicity Americans face abroad.

That's not the overall opinion on Americans overseas. I've travelled to other countries, including the Middle East this year, and I don't have to worry about natives throwing things at me because I have an American Passport. Even when I was in Jordan and Israel for two weeks, the overall treatment of myself and my party of six was very positive. People realize that the voice and actions of George W. Bush don't always represent an entire country even if he is the President. Of course, when we see someone go to the extreme like the journalist who threw a shoe at the President we tend to associate an entire group of people with that same mentality. And that's just not fair.

I doubt I'll ever travel abroad, it's just unsafer than it's ever been.

Sorry to hear that. Some places are safer to travel than others, and to miss out on seeing other lands just because of a very few people causing drama, IMO, is ridiculous. Nobody is saying you have to fly to Iraq or Iran or any of the battlezones. There's plenty of places to visit where you don't have to worry about a thing.

I recall hearing the ubber wealthy saying they'd take their money and leave the USA if Obama ever taxed them. I say let them go, how long do they think their wealth would last abroad ? Their neighbors would find out they were Americans and their wealth would be taken from them, if not their very lives. Then it comes down to whether their lives or their money is worth more to them ?

There are many places where US currency is accepted. Not only that, but in some countries the currency is accepted more than their own. When I made a trip to Cambodia a few years ago with my husband, most vendors, restaurants and stores we went to preferred American Dollars and not their own. They already took into consideration the exchange rate and asked for payment accordingly. Despite this current economic collapse, our currency does retain some strength (although not AS strong) over others. Brazil is another one of them. And I don't think anyone here would object to partying in Sao Paulo and/or Rio De Janeiro, would they? :biggrin1:
 

Phil Ayesho

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Hopelessly ironic and hypocritical.

Star, clearly you don't understand that I am NOT a Liberal. ( no matter how many times I have mentioned the fact )

I do not ascribe to EITHER dogma. My positions are based entirely on reason and evidentiary argument.
I do not oppose republican economics "notions" because they are conservative... I oppose them because they are the OPPOSITE of conservative- which has been amply proven by the fact that they have bankrupted the entire economy by allowing the wealthy to suck 3 trillion dollars out of circulation.

CALLING something conservative does not mean that it IS....

I oppose anti abortion legislation not because I am pro-choice, but because history has amply PROVEN that criminalizing it does NOT stop it.
I am FOR those measures that will actually have effect by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies...

And When I hear the same dumb fucks who want RoeVWade overturned also oppose sex education and making birth control available to teens... Then I call them on the utter hypocrisy of claiming you want to end abortion when what you REALLY want to do is punish young people for having sex.


I oppose stupidity, ignorance, and rationales predicated upon faulty logic of ANY stamp, including the hare brained schemes of the far left. I was against welfare, no matter how well intentioned, because ordinary reason could predict the result of a sector of society content to live on welfare.


So... you see... I am NOT being hypocritical when I point out the the dogma of the Left REQUIRES them to be tolerant of the far right.

But I, not being either, do not have to tolerate them. I call them as I see them.

That being said... the dogma of tolerance, even for your opponents' views, does not mean you do not argue against them... do not try to convince them to change their position.
The problem I have with Republicans is that they have no argument to offer... just invective and character assassination and rumor.
Bill Clinton's dick had nothing whatsoever to do with wether he did the JOB required of him.

The fact that the republicans continued to pillory Clinton, even after Clinton helped to enact a raft of conservative initiatives, proves that conservatives have NO actual allegiance to their stated agendas.
They HATED Clinton for DOING what they claimed they wanted done. Why? Because they are intellectually dishonest.

An examination of conservatives in office demonstrates that they SELL the middle american public on these ideas of conservative self reliance... but that, EVERY TIME they actually get into power, they DO the exact opposite. THey GROW government, INCREASE governmental power over private citizens, and act entirely in the interests of the already wealthy. They do NOT increase wealth among the middle class... they stagnate it in favor of transferring wealth from the middle class to the rich.
They enshrine corporate ownership with mythic powers over all sectors of society... and would impose the narrow dogmas of one group upon the society entire....
...which qualifies the Republican party as a Fascist political movement.

Republicans AND Democrats can offer no rebuttal for the historical facts of their actions.
Talk is cheap... lies are documentable.

The Truth is that Welfare was a HORRIBLE idea.
The Truth is that "Free Market De-regualtion was an even WORSE idea.

And, of the two... the intolerance of the far right... or the tolerance of the left...
ONE of them is actually reflected in the Constitution of the United states of America.

I am FOR secular govenrment because the Constitution mandates a secular government.
I am AGAINST the patriot act and military commissions act and the suspension of habeas corpus, not because I am a Liberal, but because I am a PATRIOT and the Constitution forbids such actions.

Bush and Cheney did not take oaths to defend the American people from attack.
They took oaths to uphold and defend the Constitution.

If doing so means Americans might get attacked... then so be it. That is the risk that comes with true freedom.

The republicans act, not to protect the American people, because history shows that HABEAS CORPUS and the bill of rights protects the people...
Republicans act to protect PROPERTY in direct proportion to how much property is owned.

Speaking as one who is as critical of Liberal dogma as I am of Conservative dogma, the Republican moral and ethical position has become as bankrupt as our economy.
They have undermined the true function of governance in favor of the elite few.
And their ideas, put into action, have failed utterly.

Their actions, in terms of propagandizing discourse and debate, are beneath contempt.

And, BTW... in debate, failure to make an actual argument in rebuttal means you lose.
 

transformer_99

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Gl3nn & Vince,

I don't think the world is full of "all" bad people, but all you need to do is have one bad day where you run into just one. I can do that within a small radius of the community where I live. I live in a diversely international community and not everyone is out to get me or anyone else for that matter. But by the same token, Al Qaeda isn't the biggest threat to my security or comfort, my neighbors are quite capable of being that threat. And those doing whatever it is they're doing to others, expect to get away with it because of innocent bystanders ? Here's a story that substantiates my concerns.

Miami News, Fort Lauderdale News, Florida News & Weather Channel 7 Fox Miami WSVN-TV - Father of teen accused of shooting baby says he is innocent

The father is an idiot for thinking the gang association is "OK" and that in the end this will be "OK".

Sorry for the thread hijack, but felt I had to address this openly & publicly. What feelings I have is not out of paranoia, it's just a realistic observation, you can't even go to the mall anymore. Pick a story, any one and you can find them anywhere on this planet:

Miami News, Fort Lauderdale News, Florida News & Weather Channel 7 Fox Miami WSVN-TV - Local News

I don't live in a vacuum. I enjoy my life to the fullest that I can. But unnecessary risks ? We all have to weigh visiting another city, state or nation vs living out the rest of our lives to see other things that are far more important ?
 

faceking

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Faceking is obviously part terrier. He can't seem to let go of anything or think of something else to entertain him. A major loser in so many ways. Imagine if he were to put all of the energy he wastes on hating things into doing positive community service work. Hell, more Seniors on the brink of starvation might have brighter lives because of his physical contributions to delivering Meals On Wheels. But no. He's too myopic.

a personal attack...

lordy are you 18 or 58, or whatever the fuck you profess to be.

sorry... but you dipshits got duped.

much like many republicans that still stuck by Bush on any/every measure... my safe estimate is that way too many Obamabots put their proverbial souls on the line, with t-shirts, Facebook groups, roundtrip tickets to the inauguration, et al... that they (including you MIDLIFEBLOATEDPIECEOFTRIZZASH) will never admit any fault. this cat is already shady/shaky/suspect and he's not in office, and you won't admit it.

i'll keep pointing out the obvious, while you lay in the lair of denail.. a la the Bushies you scourned for 8 years.

this is going to be easy. VERY easy.
 
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B_VinylBoy

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You know, it's so easy to respond to the obvious hypocritical BS of the previous post. But you know what? I think people have finally figured out just what a waste of time it is to respond to such a flame baiter.

We should let he and his classic cumshots fade into the distance.
 

Notaguru2

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'nuff said.




Actually, I dig dude nutzack on proclaiming the 5 NON-NEGOTIABLES ... On the eve of the 2004 presidential election, Warren sent an email http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Warren#cite_note-5issues-12to the Saddleback Church congregation telling them that there were five non-negotiable issues that should determine their vote:

  1. What does each candidate believe about abortion and protecting the lives of unborn children?
  2. What does each candidate believe about using unborn babies for stem-cell harvesting?
  3. What does each candidate believe about homosexual marriage?
  4. What does each candidate believe about human cloning?
  5. What does each candidate believe about euthanasia - the killing of elderly and invalids?
Feel the power, fall down.


I need a reference. Otherwise, bullshit.
 

Industrialsize

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transformer_99

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sorry... but you dipshits got duped.

I doubt I got duped, but rather stuck with yet another decision to choose between lessers. When McCain picked Palin, that was the equivalent of throwing the election. Obama has stayed the course, while his rhetoric is change. The family didn't have a dog, now they're going to get one, nice distraction from the economic issues that are going on. I have a feeling 4 years of Obama are going to be like watching E!. All fluff and no substance !

Oh no ! It's already started ? I think I'm going to vomit if this is what the next 4 years is going to be like ?

E! Online - Entertainment News, Celebrity Gossip, Celebrity News
Barack Obama, the Buff - E! Online

Barack Obama, the Buff
 

B_RedDude

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Industrialsize, E.J. Dionne is my favorite columnist.

He also advised Obama to pick Biden for VP in a column written before the search process was completed. Always seems to be an insightful, sensible columnist on the traditional liberal side.

Gamble for Obama

. . . And a Risk for Rick Warren, Too
By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Tuesday, December 23, 2008; Page A17
By inviting Pastor Rick Warren to give the inaugural invocation, President-elect Barack Obama has alienated some of his friends on the left. By accepting, Warren has enraged some of his allies on the right.

the rest of the op-ed is here:
washingtonpost.com

I think it is spot on.
 

faceking

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Phil........... coming in long and strong. Good job.

Star, clearly you don't understand that I am NOT a Liberal. ( no matter how many times I have mentioned the fact )

I do not ascribe to EITHER dogma. My positions are based entirely on reason and evidentiary argument.
I do not oppose republican economics "notions" because they are conservative... I oppose them because they are the OPPOSITE of conservative- which has been amply proven by the fact that they have bankrupted the entire economy by allowing the wealthy to suck 3 trillion dollars out of circulation.

CALLING something conservative does not mean that it IS....

I oppose anti abortion legislation not because I am pro-choice, but because history has amply PROVEN that criminalizing it does NOT stop it.
I am FOR those measures that will actually have effect by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies...

And When I hear the same dumb fucks who want RoeVWade overturned also oppose sex education and making birth control available to teens... Then I call them on the utter hypocrisy of claiming you want to end abortion when what you REALLY want to do is punish young people for having sex.


I oppose stupidity, ignorance, and rationales predicated upon faulty logic of ANY stamp, including the hare brained schemes of the far left. I was against welfare, no matter how well intentioned, because ordinary reason could predict the result of a sector of society content to live on welfare.


So... you see... I am NOT being hypocritical when I point out the the dogma of the Left REQUIRES them to be tolerant of the far right.

But I, not being either, do not have to tolerate them. I call them as I see them.

That being said... the dogma of tolerance, even for your opponents' views, does not mean you do not argue against them... do not try to convince them to change their position.
The problem I have with Republicans is that they have no argument to offer... just invective and character assassination and rumor.
Bill Clinton's dick had nothing whatsoever to do with wether he did the JOB required of him.

The fact that the republicans continued to pillory Clinton, even after Clinton helped to enact a raft of conservative initiatives, proves that conservatives have NO actual allegiance to their stated agendas.
They HATED Clinton for DOING what they claimed they wanted done. Why? Because they are intellectually dishonest.

An examination of conservatives in office demonstrates that they SELL the middle american public on these ideas of conservative self reliance... but that, EVERY TIME they actually get into power, they DO the exact opposite. THey GROW government, INCREASE governmental power over private citizens, and act entirely in the interests of the already wealthy. They do NOT increase wealth among the middle class... they stagnate it in favor of transferring wealth from the middle class to the rich.
They enshrine corporate ownership with mythic powers over all sectors of society... and would impose the narrow dogmas of one group upon the society entire....
...which qualifies the Republican party as a Fascist political movement.

Republicans AND Democrats can offer no rebuttal for the historical facts of their actions.
Talk is cheap... lies are documentable.

The Truth is that Welfare was a HORRIBLE idea.
The Truth is that "Free Market De-regualtion was an even WORSE idea.

And, of the two... the intolerance of the far right... or the tolerance of the left...
ONE of them is actually reflected in the Constitution of the United states of America.

I am FOR secular govenrment because the Constitution mandates a secular government.
I am AGAINST the patriot act and military commissions act and the suspension of habeas corpus, not because I am a Liberal, but because I am a PATRIOT and the Constitution forbids such actions.

Bush and Cheney did not take oaths to defend the American people from attack.
They took oaths to uphold and defend the Constitution.

If doing so means Americans might get attacked... then so be it. That is the risk that comes with true freedom.

The republicans act, not to protect the American people, because history shows that HABEAS CORPUS and the bill of rights protects the people...
Republicans act to protect PROPERTY in direct proportion to how much property is owned.

Speaking as one who is as critical of Liberal dogma as I am of Conservative dogma, the Republican moral and ethical position has become as bankrupt as our economy.
They have undermined the true function of governance in favor of the elite few.
And their ideas, put into action, have failed utterly.

Their actions, in terms of propagandizing discourse and debate, are beneath contempt.

And, BTW... in debate, failure to make an actual argument in rebuttal means you lose.
 

transformer_99

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He said it, not me. I have a feeling the biggest achievement will be the record number of PR meetings/addresses.

Bush had his hobby of riding bicycles, I can already foresee of Obama and his basketball exhibitions. Is this when Sir Charles Barkley and former NBA stars all come to the White House for a pick up game ? Timing of it is almost perfect, transition from NFL to College and NBA hoops ? He'll have to put a goal up so that he can get his workouts in. Unfortunately there won't be any easy layups after Jan 20th. I sense a theme for that inauguration day, the day after MLK Day (Jan 19, 2009) in Washington DC ?
 

dreamer20

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The problem I have with Republicans is that they have no argument to offer... just invective and character assassination and rumor.
Their actions, in terms of propagandizing discourse and debate, are beneath contempt.

And, BTW... in debate, failure to make an actual argument in rebuttal means you lose.

Thank you for proving how astute Phil Ayesho's observations were::smile:

you dipshits..
Obamabots ..
you MIDLIFEBLOATEDPIECEOFTRIZZASH..
this cat is already shady/shaky/suspect and he's not in office, and you won't admit it.