Obama's American Jobs Act

Thedrewbert

Superior Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Posts
851
Media
29
Likes
4,073
Points
398
Age
45
Location
Pittsburgh
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
Building better bridges and faster railways with money you don't have doesn't seem to be a very clever move. It's a completely understandable one for a left-ish administration, however.

And here is where you are wrong: We have the lowest interest rate in the WORLD as far as countries who borrow go. We can borrow at well below the rate of inflation. So in that regard, it is actually a very clever move. At the same time, this is a much more sustainable stimulus as it isn't just handing out $200 checks to everyone. People are actually paid to go to work and build things, which creates demand elsewhere where people are paid to go to work and build things... and so on.

Getting that cycle going again is what he is trying to do.
 

Jason

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Posts
15,639
Media
62
Likes
5,013
Points
433
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Verification
View
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Indeed the USA has very low bond yields. 10 year bonds are at just under 2%. If the markets get jittery about the USA it is quite possible that this will go up to around 3%, still very low. It sounds fine, but an increase from 2% to 3% is a 50% increase in the annual service charge on debt. And the USA could not handle a 50% increase in the cost of its debt.

It is essential that the USA keeps markets benign. And the worry with Obama's plan is it is like poking with a sharp stick a fierce dog that happens to be sleeping. There are of course options if markets get anxious. QE is one. Co-operative bond trading with other nations is another. Obama's plan makes one or both of these more or less inevitable.
 

Thedrewbert

Superior Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Posts
851
Media
29
Likes
4,073
Points
398
Age
45
Location
Pittsburgh
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
If the markets get jittery about the U.S., then it is likely that everyone else is already worse. Making our purchases of things cheaper.
 

Jason

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Posts
15,639
Media
62
Likes
5,013
Points
433
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Verification
View
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
If the markets get jittery about the U.S., then it is likely that everyone else is already worse. Making our purchases of things cheaper.

Agreed the bond markets are pretty ghastly for most countries, but the size of the US debt means that the USA is more exposed than most. Many nations can survive bond rates of 4-5% and higher peaks, though 7% does seem to be the disaster point. They can do this because their debt is smaller and because their budgeting accounts for this debt. The USA would have enormous problems with 3%.

Governments with debts go to the markets as forced sellers of bonds who must take the price the markets offer. Problems can and do hit very quickly. Economic policy needs to have as its foundation policies to keep the markets from killing the nation. Nothing is more important than this. Obama's policies are certainly risking a catastrophe. It is a very big gamble.

The UK policy has been exactly the opposite - reduced spending and higher taxes. We have minuscule growth, unemployment stubbornly high, the cheapest bonds for 50 years and the approval of the IMF. This is a lot better than it might have been. I guess you could see it as an economic experiment with the UK and USA trying different approaches. There will be an objective measure of the success of each in the £/$ exchange rate over the next few years.
 

D_Percy_Prettywillie

Account Disabled
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Posts
748
Media
0
Likes
24
Points
53
I know all this JSZ.... it just got funny after a while and I'm the kinda person that finds humor in odd places.... One time I just started laughing uncontrollably and my hubby looked at me.. :rolleyes:... I had to explain what I was hearing....

A more emphatic speech, there never was...........


I do a little consulting for politically oriented organizations and it so happens that we're having a gathering this evening to enjoy one anothers company over drinks. Getting these people into the same room, however, is some times... challenging to say the least. I posted the invitation on my Facebook and the line that won them over?


Drinking game based on the President's latest address. :biggrin1: (Gonna have to do like shots of Malibu though. Shots of tequila for every time he says the word "now" and I'd be on an episode of Cops by seven AM.)



JSZ
 

D_Hairy Truman

Experimental Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Posts
181
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
51
This was an excellent political speech. It has conveyed the message that Obama cares about unemployment in the USA and the problems it is creating.

ya obama cares about unemployment so much that he is looking to extend unemployment benefits again. why do i work? i do not know as it seems with obamacare and unemployment benefits always being extended i should stop hitting my head against the brick wall.
 

D_Percy_Prettywillie

Account Disabled
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Posts
748
Media
0
Likes
24
Points
53
It occurs to me that there are a number of people in the population who want a reason or a justification for their own disenfranchisement. They need someone to point the finger at and say "You're to blame." You're why I can't afford gas, you're why it's so hard to find a job, you're why these problems aren't being solved more quickly, you are what went wrong with my life.

I don't think this segment of the population is relegated to republicans and democrats. I think their voices are taken advantage of and their plight exploited for political gains during election seasons. Their complaints aren't always wholly without merit and the people they point their fingers at aren't always (in fact usually aren't) absent some of the responsibility.

But when you're blaming the President of the United States for your inability (either due to facilities or circumstances) to navigate the treacherous waters of life I think maybe you're leap frogging ahead. It's easy to blame someone you'll never meet, you'll never hear in person, and who is cut up into soundbites on your behalf by the politicians and talking heads that you trust.

Thoughts like those expressed by kt71 strike me as thoughts from this segment of the population. In this scenario it has nothing to do with which party occupies the White House because democrats were as guilty of exploiting this sort of grief during President Bush's term in office; they're trotted out before the cameras to say, essentially, "Mr. President, why don't you love me?"

What's sad about that (and shameful really) is that their plight is no closer to solvency and their problems and concerns are no closer to being addressed. Political theater trumps action at the expense of people who probably do need help. All of that, however, was a preference to what I'm about to say;

We as a society are too quick to blame someone besides the person in the mirror. Obviously, obviously, there are exceptions and of course there are instances wherein circumstances are well beyond our control. But at the end of the day, can government really be responsible for the way the majority of people have conducted their lives? Is it justified to blame government... or is it just easier?


Thoughts to ponder.


JSZ
 

Jason

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Posts
15,639
Media
62
Likes
5,013
Points
433
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Verification
View
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
ya obama cares about unemployment so much that he is looking to extend unemployment benefits again. why do i work? i do not know as it seems with obamacare and unemployment benefits always being extended i should stop hitting my head against the brick wall.

I was praising his political rhetoric. He, or perhaps his speechwriter, is a master. His delivery is excellent. He will win votes through this speech. I was not praising the proposal he made.
 

D_Hairy Truman

Experimental Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Posts
181
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
51
gotta find it interesting though that it seems a lot of people have missed the point of them the tax payers are being used as collateral for loans on things that they may not agree with. a baby born today already has $90,000 dollars worth of debt as their part of the deficit. obama is flushing america down the toilet without really deviating from the same policies that george w. bush (whom people still love to bash) would use. but it all seems honky dory as he is still an uncle tom amongst the money masters who own this world and people are eating up his crap because yes america is the land of dreams to where anything can happen. even a black president. what a great image to keep distracting from the real issues. but i am wrong. an oreo black on the outside white on the inside may be more accurate. obama is just a pawn anyways.
 
Last edited:

B_enzia35

Experimental Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2011
Posts
863
Media
0
Likes
16
Points
53
Location
Texas
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
I do a little consulting for politically oriented organizations and it so happens that we're having a gathering this evening to enjoy one anothers company over drinks. Getting these people into the same room, however, is some times... challenging to say the least. I posted the invitation on my Facebook and the line that won them over?


Drinking game based on the President's latest address. :biggrin1: (Gonna have to do like shots of Malibu though. Shots of tequila for every time he says the word "now" and I'd be on an episode of Cops by seven AM.)



JSZ
:smile:
 

Frnkd213

Admired Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Posts
1,407
Media
92
Likes
936
Points
358
Location
Los Angeles (California, United States)
Verification
View
Sexuality
90% Straight, 10% Gay
Gender
Male
It occurs to me that there are a number of people in the population who want a reason or a justification for their own disenfranchisement. They need someone to point the finger at and say "You're to blame." You're why I can't afford gas, you're why it's so hard to find a job, you're why these problems aren't being solved more quickly, you are what went wrong with my life.

I don't think this segment of the population is relegated to republicans and democrats. I think their voices are taken advantage of and their plight exploited for political gains during election seasons. Their complaints aren't always wholly without merit and the people they point their fingers at aren't always (in fact usually aren't) absent some of the responsibility.

But when you're blaming the President of the United States for your inability (either due to facilities or circumstances) to navigate the treacherous waters of life I think maybe you're leap frogging ahead. It's easy to blame someone you'll never meet, you'll never hear in person, and who is cut up into soundbites on your behalf by the politicians and talking heads that you trust.

Thoughts like those expressed by kt71 strike me as thoughts from this segment of the population. In this scenario it has nothing to do with which party occupies the White House because democrats were as guilty of exploiting this sort of grief during President Bush's term in office; they're trotted out before the cameras to say, essentially, "Mr. President, why don't you love me?"

What's sad about that (and shameful really) is that their plight is no closer to solvency and their problems and concerns are no closer to being addressed. Political theater trumps action at the expense of people who probably do need help. All of that, however, was a preference to what I'm about to say;

We as a society are too quick to blame someone besides the person in the mirror. Obviously, obviously, there are exceptions and of course there are instances wherein circumstances are well beyond our control. But at the end of the day, can government really be responsible for the way the majority of people have conducted their lives? Is it justified to blame government... or is it just easier?


Thoughts to ponder.


JSZ

Well said, I admire your view points on this forum
 

Bbucko

Cherished Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Posts
7,232
Media
8
Likes
326
Points
208
Location
Sunny SoFla
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
gotta find it interesting though that it seems a lot of people have missed the point of them the tax payers are being used as collateral for loans on things that they may not agree with. a baby born today already has $90,000 dollars worth of debt as their part of the deficit. obama is flushing america down the toilet without really deviating from the same policies that george w. bush (whom people still love to bash) would use. but it all seems honky dory as he is still an uncle tom amongst the money masters who own this world and people are eating up his crap because yes america is the land of dreams to where anything can happen. even a black president. what a great image to keep distracting from the real issues. but i am wrong. an oreo black on the outside white on the inside may be more accurate. obama is just a pawn anyways.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to prove by continuing the same pointed racial verbiage after a mod's already admonished you for it.
 

D_Hairy Truman

Experimental Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Posts
181
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
51
I'm really not sure what you're trying to prove by continuing the same pointed racial verbiage after a mod's already admonished you for it.

i am going to say something. it is amazing how when someone pulls the race card how much attention that gets when compared to the fact that this country is being flushed economically and it affects every one of us and future generations. quit be so self-righteous because of the so called political correctness that still goes on and take off the blind folds and look at peoples' actions for what they are.
 

D_Percy_Prettywillie

Account Disabled
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Posts
748
Media
0
Likes
24
Points
53
i am going to say something. it is amazing how when someone pulls the race card how much attention that gets when compared to the fact that this country is being flushed economically and it affects every one of us and future generations. quit be so self-righteous because of the so called political correctness that still goes on and take off the blind folds and look at peoples' actions for what they are.


The problem you're facing is that you did pull the race card, not as something that was being unfairly applied, but as something you could use to detract from the credibility or authenticity of the President. Based on what you initially posted, readers are left with the impression that you think the President can't be as effective as someone who wasn't (fill in your own racial pejorative here).

You've written yourself off as a crank without meaning to do so. You want people to focus on the merits of what you say and on the issues you think are important? Don'tresort to racial slurs and extremist language to get your point across. For the same reason few here take Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh seriously, few will take you seriously, when you load your posts with soundbites that could be copy and pasted from the minutes of a KKK rally.


We obviously don't agree on very much but there's one thing I can tell you is universal; Public Relations. Your approach to said subject leaves something to be desired.





JSZ
 

dandelion

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Posts
13,297
Media
21
Likes
2,705
Points
358
Location
UK
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
this is a much more sustainable stimulus as it isn't just handing out $200 checks to everyone. People are actually paid to go to work and build things,.
I have only seen a little of the linked speech but the bit I saw was saying tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. Im not convinced anyone will be spending those tax cuts.

ya obama cares about unemployment so much that he is looking to extend unemployment benefits again. why do i work? i do not know as it seems with obamacare and unemployment benefits always being extended i should stop hitting my head against the brick wall.
I dont know why you work. Perhaps you like doing it. Thats why most rich people work, they have jobs they like doing.

a baby born today already has $90,000 dollars worth of debt as their part of the deficit.
But luckily unless he's one of the rich on whose behalf those debts were run up, he wont be expected to pay it.

Governments with debts go to the markets as forced sellers of bonds who must take the price the markets offer.
But the financial institutions are also foced buyers, both because of legal requirements and because of lack of any choice.
 
Last edited:

ripsrips

Legendary Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Posts
1,315
Media
10
Likes
2,468
Points
443
Location
California (United States)
Verification
View
Sexuality
69% Straight, 31% Gay
Gender
Male
obama is an orator i think people like to listen to because he is articulate for a black man. yes i said black based on the color of his skin. dealmaker? obviously he sucks. reputed to spend 1 billion to try to be reelected. if you have to spend this much money something is being said. it'll come down to romney and barack as both are similar. besides it doesn't matter. what matters is getting rid of a centralized bank (privately owned federal reserve) and take our country back. another 500 billion dollar loan that the taxpayers are used as collateral again. it is the money masters that control this country and make the laws. or any country.

WTF does that mean? He is articulate FOR A BLACK MAN? You stating that speaks volumes about YOU.


He said nothing that the vice president then senator hasn't said...

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

Biden's description of Obama draws scrutiny - CNN

Maybe you don't believe cnn...hear the dumb shit say it himself!
Biden: Obama is first "CLEAN" African American - YouTube
 
Last edited:
D

deleted213967

Guest
But luckily unless he's one of the rich on whose behalf those debts were run up, he wont be expected to pay it.

Sorry, what was that?

The US national debt is run on behalf of "the rich"? Is that what you really meant?
 

Bbucko

Cherished Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Posts
7,232
Media
8
Likes
326
Points
208
Location
Sunny SoFla
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
i am going to say something. it is amazing how when someone pulls the race card how much attention that gets when compared to the fact that this country is being flushed economically and it affects every one of us and future generations. quit be so self-righteous because of the so called political correctness that still goes on and take off the blind folds and look at peoples' actions for what they are.

Re-read the ToS. I haven't reported you because I think you've walked the razor-wire edge, but that doesn't mean that your post(s) won't go without scrutiny. They're probably the subject of a thread in the Mod Forum already.

You don't own the ball and you don't dictate the rules of the game. Neither do I but I've never claimed otherwise :cool:

Oh, and self-righteous? Really?
 

dandelion

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Posts
13,297
Media
21
Likes
2,705
Points
358
Location
UK
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Sorry, what was that?

The US national debt is run on behalf of "the rich"? Is that what you really meant?
You want the long explanation? First off, congress I am sure is populated by people drawn from the ruling rich class. All the debt was run up by them in the name of their ideals. Then more immediatelty, lots of info has made it clear that the reason the US has a deficit is because of a program of tax cuts over the last 10 or 20 years. And this has generally benefitted the rich. Current economic policies are increasing the net worth of the rich at the expense of everyone else. This is an interesting modern innovation historically rather unusual in a democracy. Whether the rich can keep it going now people have started to notice remains to be seen. The one good thing about being at the opposite end of the social scale and completely poor is that having no money you cannot be taxed enough to pay off the national debt. Though it does remain to be seen whether under the present arrangement where an increasing proportion of national wealth is ring-fenced to protect it from all taxation, it is possible to pay that debt at all.

In Imperial Rome the mob was kept happy with games and circuses. In modern day US they get medicare. Well, they do get medical care, but it is delivered in an incredibly backhanded way which enriches a whole tranche of middle men. How has the uS military helped more than a bare handfull of its citizens who got rescued from hostage situations, etc, over the last century? Who has benefited from the national prestige purchased by this military spending? How would the US be if all those soldiers had been doing something useful all that time? Those arms factories making something else?