Obama's got the golden checkbook out.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_starinvestor, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    Oh, Lordy. The United States is like a $100,000 house with a $200,000 mortgage...and now its taking another cash advance.

    An entire nation....spending money like a drunken sailor....

    US: Can we borrow more money please [to Japan and China]
    Japan & China: What's it for this time..who are you bailing out now?
    US: Nobody, we want this money just to spend it.


    NEWS ALERT
    from The Wall Street Journal
    Dec. 18, 2008
    Obama's economic team is crafting a stimulus package to send to Congress of $675 billion to $775 billion over two years, according to transition officials. The transition team has conveyed the figures to Capitol Hill, where the package is likely to grow as it works its way through the House and Senate. Obama aides hope to keep the package below the trillion-dollar mark, as they fear being accused of adding too much to the country's long-term budget deficit.
     
  2. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City, by way of Marblehead, Boston and Ge
    Allrighty then. However, I'll bet your dollars to doughnuts any Republican administration would have done/would be doing exactly the same thing with possibly slightly different numbers. So what, if given the opportunity, would you in your infinite wisdom do to fix the economic crisis?

    Here's your shot, buddy. Pontificate, do. :biggrin1:
     
    #2 B_Nick8, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  3. Biggin'

    Biggin' New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York
    let these go bankrupt like any other failed business and the free market will compensate. Tough Love.

    how bout just splitting up the cash for every tax paying american?

    who will pay US back if all these fucking business go bankrupt anyway?

    this isnt popular with anyone, and the govt is doing it anyway. ITS NOT THEIR MONEY.
     
  4. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    Thought you'd never ask:biggrin1:


    • Eliminate capital gains taxes. Drop them to zero. No one will have any gains for 5 years anyway. This would encourage hundreds of billions of dollars that are currently parked in cash equivalents to pour into the private sector as investment capital.
    • Give anyone that buys an American car a $5,000 tax credit. This will send people flocking into the car manufacturers and driving up demand, re-vitalizing the auto industry from top to bottom.
    • Give people a double, or even triple deduction on mortgage interest. This will cause homeowners to fight harder to keep their homes..reducing foreclosures drastically...it will cause homeowners that own their homes free and clear to take out mortgages to garner the tax deductions....that cash from home equity will be sent into the economy and the financial markets.
    There you have it, my friend. The solution. No more $800 billion checks, just internal controls/incentives that will get this ship moving again.

    Note - I'm not blaming Obama for this stimulus check. I'm blaming government.
     
  5. HazelGod

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7,531
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Other Side of the Pillow
    You might've explained that sentiment to the guy who wrote the title of this thread... :rolleyes:
     
  6. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    Well, he wants credit for the stimulus package...I don't mind giving it to him.
     
  7. Jason

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    9,926
    Likes Received:
    639
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London (GB)
    Oh, Lordy. The United Kingdom is like a $100,000 house with a $300,000 mortgage...and now its taking another cash advance.

    In Britain we have a socialist prime minister in denial about the abysmal financial mess of Britain - far worse than most other economies - and who now seems to have delusions of grandure - in case you missed it in a Freudian slip he recently told parliament he is "saving the world". Even the Archbishop of Canterbury has told him he is wrong. Our currency is sliding, and we have a higher level of debt than we had in 1945 (when America bailed us out).

    America has problems. Britain has problems with bells on. It is 18 months before we are likely to be able to kick out our failed prime minister - and what is frightening is that a lot of people seem to have signed up to his comfortable mantra that we should all borrow and spend and someone else (the rich fat cats) will pick up the bill. If Brown should call a snap election there is a chance he could win it because his message is there is no problem, and people like that. Assuming we get rid of him his replacement can start to repair the damage, but Brown has already saddled us with high debt levels and high taxes for a generation.

    America needs to avoid Britain's problems. Keynsian economics does advocate government borrowing and spending in a recession, but within limits. The risk is that a new president in America will breach these limits. I think a Democrat is likely to spend and borrow a little more than a Republican would, and the risk is that that little bit more is the tipping point. The last thing America - or any country - wants is for America to see a slide in the dollar and the sort of debt levels and future tax hikes Britain has.
     
  8. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City, by way of Marblehead, Boston and Ge
    God, or whatever passes for it, will strike me dead, and my Libtard-in-good-standing status is in jeopardy, but off the top of my head those aren't the very worst proposals I've ever heard.

    Jezuz, is it Christmas already? I don't even have my cards out.

    Don't worry, someone smarter than I am will weigh in soon.
     
  9. houtx48

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    35
    Gender:
    Male
    ''I think a Democrat is likely to spend and borrow a little more than a Republican would'',-------------------------------- have you been watching the republicans barrow and spend for 8 years and you still say that? besides everybody knows that democrats tax and spend. I hate to agree with star but i do.
     
  10. D_Pubert Stabbingpain

    D_Pubert Stabbingpain Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,194
    Likes Received:
    8
    For corps or individuals or both? If there will not be gains for 5 years this will not solve the current economic crisis. PLUS, funds are sitting in treasuries now because they are perceived as the safest place to be during a highly volatile and uncertain market. Without consumer and invester confidence, that is where they will stay.

    The successful automakers are alive and well in the south due to much more realistic business practices. I bought an "American Made" vehicle, paid their high monthly interest loan untill I finally paid it off, get service from their high, over-priced dealership (even bought new tires there!), and if they are not good stewards of mine or anyone else's money, let them fail. It is the American Capitalistic way!
    Besides, encouraging buying vehicles from "the big 3" now only encourages more polluting gas-guzzling vehicles because that is all they have. Why? Because they blew away the last "re-tooling" bailout we gave them! They simply can't manage money.

    1- People who cannot afford their mortgages now, regardless of any "incentive" will still not be able to afford them and with the currently increasing unemployment situation, fewer and fewer will be able to afford their mortgages nor will they even care as their home value and equity is less than what they owe. New, re-adjusted rates will be due within a month making even more people unable to pay.
    2- The biggest problem remains that banks are not loaning money. In fact, they will only refinance for those with a credit score 740+ who also have 20% down payment and you cannot own more than the home is worth. Problem is that home values are in the toilet and many, many people's homes are worth less than they owe unless they initially made a HUGE down payment (like 50%). Approximately 11.7 million American households currently owe more on their mortgage than their homes are worth. SEE
    Home Equity Stripped Away in 2008; Nearly $2 Trillion in Home Values Lost This Year - AOL Money & Finance

    Current unemployment stats are
    Employment Situation Summary


    Why then does your title read like Obama is already President especially since a trillion $ has already been "approved" by the current administration?
     
  11. ledroit

    ledroit New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    854
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    wrong metaphor. economies are like engines.

    You sound like somebody who'd stand beside a car that was sputtering because the gas flow got choked up, saying, "If you think I'm going to give you more gas after you start acting like this, think again!"

    The middle class is the engine. The reason we got into this mess was the faith-based wack jobs on the right who kept praying to the rich, hoping it would rain. You should check out the sheer numbers of the middle and lower classes sometimes, and then check out the benefits that a "capital gains" tax would produce on, say the bottom 70% of society in the US. It would net the country, um, what, $2 per person?
     
  12. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,372
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis

    Tax cuts....the usual conservative duct tape for every problem what a surprise. And of course no way to PAY for them. Wanna increase purchase of shoes? Cut shoe taxes. Wanna increase education cut book taxes. Taxes are evil. Too bad the founding fathers didn't ban them in the Constitution. Let private industry run the country.
     
  13. pym

    pym New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Star, there may be some slight hope for you after all......I actually found something i can agree with you on. The tax incentive on purchasing an American car. I have been pointing the finger at American purchasing habits for 3 decades! I have certainly ranted my exasperation regarding such on this forum. People can finger point at government all day long.....I have allways pointed at my nieghbors driveway{and stereo/tv/kitchen appliances/clothing/video games/AD INFINTUM....etc....etc....blah blah blah.....} Oh and i have ALLWAYS walked the walk..I have never owned a car that was not made by the big 3. Curently:2004 Ford Ranger, 1990 Harley Davidson. Nearly everything i own is American made. That includes 12 vintage guitars and 10 vintage amps. My Justin BOOTS. All my tools. I have allways checked labels. I have allways fucking cared.
     
  14. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    Both. Or either. who cares? People are in treasuries because they're scared. 10 yr treasury at 2.1%. Exciting. If you drop cap gains taxes, same guy can get a 9% dividend, no taxes, on a strong utility or bank stock. Yes, this will solve the liquidity issue in our capital markets.

    They got problems, but if you want them to survive, instead of loaning $14 billion, the tax credit would help a lot.


    Alot can, they just choose not to. If you didn't put anything down, and you are struggling....just walk away. Most are. However, if you get a triple deduction, you are really incented to keep the property, you save money in taxes, also people are incented to mortgage their equity to enjoy tax breaks.


    Exactly. TARP was a joke in my opinion.
     
  15. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    :beerchug2:
     
  16. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    The cap gains tax cut isn't about dollar savings. Its about moving idle assets into private industry...giving companies liquidity, boosting up stock prices..the 'wealth effect'
    Wealth effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    ....using your analogy...giving the engine a 'tuneup' and a little extra horsepower.
     
  17. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    That sucks. Sometimes, misery loves company.:frown1:
     
  18. transformer_99

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    In some markets that $ 100K house was mortgaged for $ 300-400K. (Miami, Florida) and still others it's even worse (Los Angeles, California) where it got to $ 500+K. The bailout plans saddle the Government with buying houses or mortgages with no tangible property ownership. It all boils down to an individual mortgage by mortgage situation where the debt is restructured. Nobody in their right mind(s) would buy into that deal.

    It's similar with the auto industry bailout, we're going to wind up paying for automobiles that are going to sit on a dealership's lot. To be candid about it, the bailouts are costing us and none of us have yet to be notified of when any of us are going to get a new car or even get to drive one of these cars we're all paying for. And it's no different for Wall Street, bailing out the market and not getting the promise of any "ROI". There's no percentage in entering a business arrangement with business associates that don't pay a "ROI", much else what they borrowed. In the end, we will wind up not only bailing out these industries and their businesses, but wind up paying more for the products they sell. It's the only way the system makes profits. Anyone get their stocks for investing in/bailing out AIG ?
     
Draft saved Draft deleted