Obama's Kicking Hillary's Dupa In S.C.

[2322]

What do you bet it will be a brokered convention?

The Obama and Hillary sides deadlock and Edwards becomes the dark horse.

That is a scenario nobody wants. I suggest that you will see a Hillary-Obama ticket even if Obama has more delegates. In order for Obama to win, the entire Clinton machine would have to disintegrate. Lot of money and people who support the Democratic party have vested interests in a Clinton win. I wager that if Obama decides to play ball for eight years, the Clinton machine will offer him their support when the time comes to run against Jeb Bush.

A Clinton-Obama ticket would have some problems gaining acceptance from racist/sexist cross-overs, but I think they're banking that the people who won't accept a woman or black president will be voting Republican anyway. It's a calculated risk.

These are all just castles in the sky until Super Tuesday, but we may actually have a relevant convention.

 

[THEEman]

ehh its probably all rigged or already known and if it isn't we all know deep down who's going to win. I like being vague!

o yah sry about the senior thing senor. I am just I dunno very spastic?

 

[gjorg]

What does Obama bring to the table? Besides being black! Don't say change either! Remember"Don't stop thinking about tomorrow". All candidates run on change, what asshole has a platform that says "stay the course"? Opps did I just type that?

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Not to mention this time may be the last viable shot for a Clinton run, which is why I believe they will stop at nothing to secure the nomination. Why would two people who have shown no semblance of ethics in the past start now? The very thought of a Billary co-presidency is frightening on so many levels.

Do not underestimate the power of the Clinton Machine, folks. A South Carolina loss may be just what they wanted.

TheHill.com - How Clinton will win the nomination by losing S.C.

*We may note that the dastardly duo high-tailed it out of S.C. before the polls closed, Bill to Missouri and Hill to Tennessee. Coinkydink? I think not.

I find Dick Morris' analysis, in TheHill piece, quite brilliant. But also a little perverse. Because there's no reason I can see why Bill C. shouldn't beg black voters to vote for his wife.

I also like Morris' analysis of how this will play out for Hillary in the general election, if she becomes the nominee:

"If she is seen as being rejected by minority voters in favor of Obama after going hat in hand to them and trying to out-civil rights Obama, blacks will even likely feel guilty about rejecting Hillary and will be more than willing to support her in the general election."

Such tacticians might be good in the Oval Office. Idealism has its place, but it shares the sandbox in the real world with a clear-eyed sense of how to pull the levers and get things done.
(Not that Bill Clinton was all that good, as president, at doing that.)

 

[Qua]

What does Obama bring to the table? Besides being black! Don't say change either! Remember"Don't stop thinking about tomorrow". All candidates run on change, what asshole has a platform that says "stay the course"? Opps did I just type that?

Ironic considering only Kucinich and Ron Paul seem to advocate major overhaul of the goverment and political system as they stand. I find Obama's change buzzword and everyone else's embrace of it to be terribly hollow considering they don't really stand for too much change from the norms of the past 10-15 years. Change from Bush perhaps, but is a regression to Clinton-era politics really change? Welcome perhaps, but Obama and Hillary especially seem to be hollow heralds, and everyone just laughs at the leading Republicans when they try and employ it.

 

[VeeP]

What do you bet it will be a brokered convention?

The Obama and Hillary sides deadlock and Edwards becomes the dark horse.

Haha, now wouldn't that be something! Then a Republican presidency would be almost certain. Edwards is a loon.

Don't say change either! Remember"Don't stop thinking about tomorrow". All candidates run on change, what asshole has a platform that says "stay the course"?

Precisely. "The American public wants change" has been the same refrain for as long as I've been voting, and look where we are. What will be the straw that finally breaks the camel's back?

 

[B_Nick4444]

Ironic considering only Kucinich and Ron Paul seem to advocate major overhaul of the goverment and political system as they stand. I find Obama's change buzzword and everyone else's embrace of it to be terribly hollow considering they don't really stand for too much change from the norms of the past 10-15 years. Change from Bush perhaps, but is a regression to Clinton-era politics really change? Welcome perhaps, but Obama and Hillary especially seem to be hollow heralds, and everyone just laughs at the leading Republicans when they try and employ it.

what he said!

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

These are all just castles in the sky until Super Tuesday, but we may actually have a relevant convention.

Wouldn't that be fun?
The first one since ... when? ... 1976?
It was all a lot more interesting in those days.

 

[gjorg]

What do you bet it will be a brokered convention?

The Obama and Hillary sides deadlock and Edwards becomes the dark horse.

That is a scenario nobody wants. I suggest that you will see a Hillary-Obama ticket even if Obama has more delegates. In order for Obama to win, the entire Clinton machine would have to disintegrate. Lot of money and people who support the Democratic party have vested interests in a Clinton win. I wager that if Obama decides to play ball for eight years, the Clinton machine will offer him their support when the time comes to run against Jeb Bush.

A Clinton-Obama ticket would have some problems gaining acceptance from racist/sexist cross-overs, but I think they're banking that the people who won't accept a woman or black president will be voting Republican anyway. It's a calculated risk.

These are all just castles in the sky until Super Tuesday, but we may actually have a relevant convention.

Jason, you and I have had past differences(oy,have we ever)but I have always believed in your intellect.
Did you see a debate or two ago when Hillary asked for Barracks help?She might have well just blew him right there. In return he answered in kind, almost doing her. I know it sounds childish but a clinton/obama or obama/clinton might be what their buttering us up for. Could be the great race of '69. Who gets on top?

 

[VeeP]

I find Dick Morris' analysis, in TheHill piece, quite brilliant. But also a little perverse.

Yeah, it always is, and that's why it's often spot on. He was around The Machine long enough to know precisely how it ticks.

Morris also forecasted the Huckaboom quite deftly, as I recall.

 

[gjorg]

BTW, no matter what you feel about Bill Clinton, the country was in fairly good shape and going in the right direction.

 

[naughty]

Jason, you and I have had past differences(oy,have we ever)but I have always believed in your intellect.
Did you see a debate or two ago when Hillary asked for Barracks help?She might have well just blew him right there. In return he answered in kind, almost doing her. I know it sounds childish but a clinton/obama or obama/clinton might be what their buttering us up for. Could be the great race of '69. Who gets on top?

Well, the reality is that their platforms are almost identical with Senator Clinton leaning a bit more towards the right. At the moment it is basically coming down to personality and individual preferences. So, we shall see...

 

[2322]

If Obama gets the nomination then he chooses Hillary or Edwards as a running mate. Blacks will vote Democratic.

If Edwards gets the nomination then he chooses Hillary or Obama as a running mate. Blacks will vote Democratic.

If Hillary gets the nomination then she chooses Obama or Edwards as a running mate. Blacks will vote Democratic.

Obama will attract no more blacks to the Democratic ticket than would any other candidate. It's not blacks the Dems need to worry about, it's which nominee will most attract the swing voters and central red states. I don't think they're certain a black candidate can do that yet.

Their biggest problem is Hillary. There are enough people in those red states who will never vote for a Clinton.

This is why super Tuesday will give them a plan to follow. They want to see how Hillary and Obama play in middle America. Edwards isn't out by a long shot. If the voters find that the idea of a Clinton-Obama too unpalatable, Edwards may have to become part of the equation. The question is how do they arrange the two out of three to create a ticket people will vote?

I don't think Hillary will take the veep position if it were offered to her. She'd be 70 at the next open election and still have the same baggage she has now. So that means Edwards stands a chance to live at the Naval Observatory and Hillary gets to be Ambassador to the UN or Secretary of Something or Attorney General.

 

[2322]

All three are very buddy buddy with each other. They may be competing but they are all playing for the same team. Only Paul and Kucinich are relatively outside of the system and why they have no party or pundit support.

I hope we can put our differences behind us.

Jason, you and I have had past differences(oy,have we ever)but I have always believed in your intellect.
Did you see a debate or two ago when Hillary asked for Barracks help?She might have well just blew him right there. In return he answered in kind, almost doing her. I know it sounds childish but a clinton/obama or obama/clinton might be what their buttering us up for. Could be the great race of '69. Who gets on top?

 

[musclekid]

Edwards is hopeless. He will have no say in the convention because Hillary will steamroll the big states like New York and Cali. The only question is if Obama can stand to be Hillary's VP. If the roles were reversed, Obama would never take Hillary as VP. That would be a totally insane move.

 

[gjorg]

All three are very buddy buddy with each other. They may be competing but they are all playing for the same team. Only Paul and Kucinich are relatively outside of the system and why they have no party or pundit support.

I hope we can put our differences behind us.

If I say "Of course we can" would I sound like a candidate?:smile:

 

[2322]

Hillary may not have New York! Lot of Obama people in New York, black and otherwise, and upstaters resent her carpetbagging of the Senate seat.

Edwards is hopeless. He will have no say in the convention because Hillary will steamroll the big states like New York and Cali. The only question is if Obama can stand to be Hillary's VP. If the roles were reversed, Obama would never take Hillary as VP. That would be a totally insane move.

 

[2322]

If I say "Of course we can" would I sound like a candidate?:smile:

Hmmm... Not until you promise to lower my taxes, increase my entitlements, and find a solution to Iraq.

 

[gjorg]

Edwards is hopeless. He will have no say in the convention because Hillary will steamroll the big states like New York and Cali. The only question is if Obama can stand to be Hillary's VP. If the roles were reversed, Obama would never take Hillary as VP. That would be a totally insane move.

He would have to be EXTREMLY carefull! His pick for Veep could decimate him. An Edwards pick would make this a free for all! An outsider would do the same!

 

[VeeP]

I don't see a Clinton-Obama nor Obama-Clinton ticket, either way. The African-American vote is only an issue for Clinton so long as Obama is in the race. She'd probably pick someone like Richardson to bolster the Latino vote.

And surely Obama wouldn't be stupid enough to risk being dragged through the Clintonian muck for 4-8 years (and you just know there'd be some). He's plenty young enough to take another shot at it down the road. Personally I don't see the guy settling for anything less than POTUS.