Obama's "minister"?

Industrialsize

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more of a sad commentary and reflection that the indoctrination by a tendentious educational system of the American electorate has succeeded

more and more of what we are seeing is pattern thinking on the part of the American people, and pattern responses ... hence, survey after survey, particularly of our young, reveal exuberant support for Obama, but no rational, or reasoned explanation by them for their support
I hope that wasn't directed at me....I have real exuberant support for Barack Obama rooted in his positions and policies...the sweeping generalization is that he is all flash and no substance......spend an hour or 2 on his website... barackobama.org
 

B_Nick4444

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I hope that wasn't directed at me....I have real exuberant support for Barack Obama rooted in his positions and policies...the sweeping generalization is that he is all flash and no substance......spend an hour or 2 on his website... barackobama.org

no, not at you
 

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Conservative characterizations of Obama as completely lacking substance are


actually, not directed at Obama ... Obama is just one more example ... in fact, I doubt Obama, would have been possible without ... which is to say, I think, that if Americans were still practicing critical thinking, Obama would not have gotten this far
 

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what the guy said was true..good on him... the truth often hurts.
 

B_Nick4444

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I hope that wasn't directed at me....I have real exuberant support for Barack Obama rooted in his positions and policies...the sweeping generalization is that he is all flash and no substance......spend an hour or 2 on his website... barackobama.org


policy statements are all well, and good ... however, as students of the American Presidency can tell you, the actual powers of the office are constrained as part of the genius design of the Founding Fathers ... with the result that primary thing I take into consideration when examining candidates is CHARACTER
 

SpeedoGuy

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, the actual powers of the office are constrained as part of the genius design of the Founding Fathers ... with the result that primary thing I take into consideration when examining candidates is CHARACTER

right then...

I just have to laugh whenever I hear conservative apologists go on about the importance of character in leaders.
 

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...the actual powers of the office are constrained as part of the genius design of the Founding Fathers ... with the result that primary thing I take into consideration when examining candidates is CHARACTER

Yes, in theory. But that rather assumes one achieves the presidency without first falling foul of human (in this case, voter) nature:

It seems quite perplexing, and more than a little paradoxical that a candidate's campaign for the Presidency of a nation which is, essentially rooted in an ideology of avoiding religion influencing Government can (potentially) be so easily derailed by the years old, re-hashed comments of his ... ex church minister.

Or is it just me?

The Presidency is very much about character. The president's character. Not his minister's, his neighbours or his ex postman's etc. It's sad that far too many seem unable to make such a distinction, instead falling back on the easier and less imaginative; 'guilt by association'.
 

B_Nick4444

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right then...

I just have to laugh whenever I hear conservative apologists go on about the importance of character in leaders.

character often determines the results the President can achieve ... look at the two Roosevelts, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and the latter Bush
 

B_Nick4444

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The Presidency is very much about character. The president's character. Not his minister's, his neighbours or his ex postman's etc. It's sad that far too many seem unable to make such a distinction, instead falling back on the easier and less imaginative; 'guilt by association'.

this fellow is on record as saying that he considers this minister as his moral compass and spiritual advisor ... his words
 

Industrialsize

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I think that barack Obama has demonstrated great Character under difficult circumstances......my admiration of him is not diminished under this test.....the character of those in the race who have adopted "win at all costs'(HRC) is to me circumspect........my theory regarding mCCain is that, through no fault of his own, he suffers from a form of PTSD and sees the world and all its situations through the lens of a militaristic viewpoint..In my humble opinion, somewhat of a loose cannon.....

in his own words:
"Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue"
"Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country."
"And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States."


couldn't be more clear
 

Industrialsize

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aye, there's the rub

that what the issue is

given his background,

just what are those values?
What has HE, not a minister in his church, done or said that would make you question his character????....just asking...I LIKE the fact that he is LOATHE to demonize his so called enemies or people who don't agree with him.......He is more likely to try and engage these people to understand them and possibly show them another viewpoint. This is rare in this day of hyperpartisan, us versus them, we are the ONLY ones who possibly could be right politics....

At that same Church during a speech on MLK day, he mentioned that memebers of the black community have NOT been acting very "christian" toward their gay brothers and sisters.he was booed...but eventually brought the congregation to a better understanding of what it means to be gay in our society
In another speech on MLK day, a young girl interrupted him and said this day was a proud day in African American history...he said NO No no, this is an Important day in AMERICAN history..

I found both instances impressive.

I find both instances a mirror into his character
 

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this fellow is on record as saying that he considers this minister as his moral compass and spiritual advisor ... his words

I listen to and take the advice of many people, that doesn't make me like them. You're basing your character assessment (so it appears) on what a minister is 'yelling' in a few video clips, not what the candidate has said in dozens, and his professional record. It seems a rather unbalanced rendering, to me.

A compass is a guide, a tool. It may get you out of a tight spot or, it may not tell you what you're expecting and thus you may not follow it's advice when you should. The reverse may apply and sometimes advice, like a compass direction can and should be ignored.

Ultimately, what happens is never in the direct control of the compass, but in the one who interprets and acts on what it's indicating. Those actions are what matter.
 

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C'mon Industrial wake up man. This will not blow over. If the democrats in their gullibility let it go for now, the republicans will NEVER let it go when it comes time for the general election.

He was close with this man for 20 YEARS. If I was raised by a racist father for 20 years, I would hate black people. If I was raised by a household where everyone was gay and engaged in homosexual acts, you can be damned sure there is a good chance I would grow up sucking dick. If my father figure was a white supremacist, I would probably don the white hood. If my father figure was a black panther, you can be sure I would join in the revolution.

He is probably a man scorned when he left the military and developed hatred for America. Along comes a young obama, very charismatic intelligent person, who wright believes he can turn into a soldier in his revolution. Barack, searching for identity in america, was looking for a father figure he never had growing up, and wright became that for him. Took advantage of him. Is using him in his revolution. Barack is the perfect man for the job. He is smooth. Able to captivate millions. You think his minister couldn't see that when he met him?

I've said before I actually agree with a lot of what the minister says, but that is because I would take arms in the revolution as well. But there is a lot of america that won't like what the man says, and that he is close with obama. Sorry, anything barack says to discount it at this point means nothing, its nothing more than a desperate and final attempt at reaching his supporters gullibility, people who are so blinded by his words and speeches and will ignore almost anything negative and still push him into office. This is a big deal. Barack looked caught last night on interviews on cnn and fox. He was lying.

If you don't think that some (if not most) of the views expressed in wright's speeches and probably preached to obama over the last 20 years hasn't gotten into the head of obama you are being foolish. This man isn't just his "minister", sorry. If you [obama supporters] can't admit the possibility that this may be plausible you are in flat out denial, and Barack is executing the plan perfectly.
 

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2 words McCain/Magee......(and I think the only "plan" senator Obama has is to win the presiency and serve the country)..the was you say plan makes it sound as if their is something insidious and devious afoot.


I guess I have more faith in the American Electorate

I thought the media was supposed to be the tank for Barack Obama.
But why does it seem like the Jeremiah Wright story gets far more media echo chamber than McCain and Hillary’s associations with religious figures who make controversial statements?
In the arena of financial corruption, why does the Tony Rezko story, in which no one can find that Obama did anything wrong, get far more play the Hsu story...or the Guistra story.....or the Burkle Story?
Why is “anti-special interest” John McCain’s coziness with a lobbyist like Iseman only a 2 day story primarily focused on the sins of the New York Times, virtually ignoring the blatant hypocrisy of McCain’s lobbyist ties even if you ignore the red herring question of a romantic relationship?
Personally, I do not like playing guilt by association with anybody...but people seem to do it a lot with Obama. I think it is then only fair to point out that Obama’s political opponents and media critics may not necessarily meet the standards they set for Barack Obama.

The Media witch hunters:
Ok, you might be saying that it is really the media that is driving this story, not Obama’s opponents. Well, let’s play guilt by association with the media too:
CNN employs Bill Bennett as a pundit, who said the following:
“But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.”
MSNBC employs Pat Buchanan, who has quite a record of accomplishment for intolerance to blacks, Jews, and gays.
Then there is Fox News.....do I really even need to go there?
I want to know why many will not be satisfied unless Obama strangles Jeremiah Wright himself, but seem to be so darn agnostic about their own associations with questionable figures.
Novel idea: Pick a standard and apply it equally.

Without weighing in on whether or not the content of Reverend Jeremiah Wright's sermons should be denounced by Barack Obama, I do find one aspect of this story quite troubling. We have now seen more sermons from Barack Obama's minister in 48 hours than we ever did of Mike Huckabee ---- and Mike Huckabee was a presidential candidate for 14 long months. Why is it acceptable to scour every last sermon given by Wright, but only weeks ago we weren't allowed to see or read Mike Huckabee's sermons? In fact, not only was it totally ignored by the traditional media, but the few times the question of Huckabee's sermons was raised, it was brushed aside as inappropriate.
Why the hypocrisy? After all, Mike Huckabee was an evangelical Southern Baptist minister who's entire campaign was based on the fact that he was the Christian candidate. Are we to believe that he didn't rail against the US government over abortion in previous sermons? Or homosexuality? We know what he had to say about AIDS victims. I don't imagine one gets to be the be president of the Arkansas Baptist Convention without passionate fire and brimstone sermons as part of his repertoire.
So, I find it curious that the traditional media now has its white hot focus on Barack Obama's religion and a few select words by Reverend Jeremiah Wright. After all, Huckabee made his career as an actual preacher. Why the change of heart in the last few weeks? Why does Obama have to be held responsible for every word spoken during Wright's passionate sermons - while Huckabee is allowed a free ride and never questioned about his own words? From his own mouth?
Well, it's fair game now. If Huckabee reappears as a VP contender or decides to get in the race in 2012, I think we can safely point to this as justification for wanting to see Huckabee's past - in his own words.
As several commenters have pointed out, whenever the subject of Mitt Romney's religion came up - it was portrayed as essentially un-American to even whisper about Romney's Mormonism. I agree that it has no place in politics, but let's make sure this is going both ways.

once again:
in his own words;
“I strongly condemn” Wright’s statements, but “I would not repudiate the man,” Obama said. “He’s been preaching for 30 years. He’s a man who was a former Marine, a biblical scholar, someone who’s spoken at theological schools all over the country.
“That’s the man I know,” Obama said. “That’s the man who was the pastor of this church.”
But Obama acknowledged that “there’s no doubt this is going to be used as political fodder, as it has been in the past.”
“What I hope is [that] what the American people will trust is what I believe,” he said, that “my values, my ideas, what I’ve spoke about in terms of bringing the country together will override a guilt by association.”
This won't end the debate, and shouldn't. But it's a classy move. You don't disown a man this close to Obama's spiritual development over the years for political reasons. Obama's not a Clinton. But a more forceful explanation of why and how Obama rejects Wright's most inflammatory sound-bites would be helpful at some point. A bigger speech reiterating his own rejection of racial resentment would be even better - soon. Why not in a black church? Obama's more developed explanation for his membership of Wright's church and closeness to the man is in his first book. A critical passage can be read here.
 

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character often determines the results the President can achieve ... look at the two Roosevelts, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and the latter Bush

I agree character is important in a leader, whether left leaning or right. I certainly admire character when I see it and I think I see it Obama. Possibly in McCain as well. But I also think I'd be hard pressed to find elected politicians in high office, including the examples above, who haven't neglected character at the times it became politically expedient.
 
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