Obama's Moderate "Armor" Penetrated re his "spiritual leader"

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by pdxman, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. pdxman

    pdxman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    4
    I LOVE IT!!! LOL So this is Obama's "spiritual leader?". Why that's just GREAT isn't it!!? I knew the crap about Obama would start coming out sooner or later after the lovefest started to cool down. LOL know we have a link with the radical liberal black wing of the party,,goodbye Barack!! Bye bye! Your "middle of the road" armor has been penetrated!! Say bye bye to your moderate white support lol
     
  2. hockeycock

    hockeycock New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ottawa
    Because anyone who goes to a church holds all the same opinions as its minister.

    Some good old guilt by association. Anyone want to put money on Clinton, Inc. being behind all of this minute scrutiny of the sermon-content of a church on the south side of Chicago?
     
  3. pdxman

    pdxman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    4

    I'm not saying Obama holds the exact same views as this guy. But just the way this can spin looks bad. They described him as Obama's "spiritual leader" on the news this morning. That implies a more intimate relationship between Obama and the minister.
     
  4. JustAsking

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,249
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ohio
    By definition, one's Pastor is one's spiritual leader.
     
  5. playainda336

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,000
    Albums:
    7
    Likes Received:
    1,211
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Greensboro (NC, US)
  6. pdxman

    pdxman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    4

    No one calls their pastor "their spiritual leader" in a casual reference. Its like saying, "Oh by the way Jane. my SPIRITUAL LEADER did a great sermon the other day". No one uses that term unless its implying a more intimate relationship or like a mentor relationship
     
  7. mindseye

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    5,685
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    All of Ted Haggard's parishioners sucked dick for crystal meth.


    When you talk about the "radical liberal black wing" of the party, you're just being racist -- using one guy's pastor to tar folks like John Conyers, Alcee Hastings, Eleanor Holmes Norton, Bobby Scott, or Charlie Rangel. You wouldn't suggest that Mike Huckabee represented the "white wing" of the Republican party.

    Please take your offensive hate-filled rhetoric elsewhere.
     
  8. playainda336

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,000
    Albums:
    7
    Likes Received:
    1,211
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Greensboro (NC, US)
    It's times like this I wish I was a mod.

    This thread's discussion is pointless and could've been posted in another thread. Stuff like this is simply forum clutter.
     
  9. pdxman

    pdxman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    4
    YES lol I Would say Mike Huckabee represented the radical white (yes white)right christian conservative wing of the party DUH!!!!!
     
  10. HaagenDazs

    HaagenDazs New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    M
    O
    R
    O
    N

    LOL. I agree completely.

    How wacked out does it sound to say people believe EVERYTHING their pastor believes. People dont have brains of their owns or individual thoughts. They just automatically believe whatever their pastor believes.

    ...I wonder if people ever pause to think about how ridiculous they sound sometimes.

    I don't know if the Clinton's are behind it, so much as everyone person like the OP who wants Barack Obama to loose white support for obvious reasons.

    What a fucked up place we live in when we want someone to loose not moral/belief support, but RACIAL support...not because they fucked up, or were exposed as a lying fraud...but because they are a different color than the people supporting thing...and not because they said something wrong...but because their pastor did.

    God bless America!!! :usa:

    Oh and by the way @ pdxman: It's common in the black church and specifically in that particular church for the pastor to be referred to as a "spiritual leader". They don't meant it as guru. They mean it as another, cutesy, done-up word for pastor.

    I know because I spent a few years in Chicago for high school and even went to that church a number of times.

    Oh no...I went to that church...gone is my moderate armor too. WOE....!!!

    :bsflag:
     
  11. pdxman

    pdxman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    4

    Oh right.."spritual leader" is used in common conversation? As in "Oh yes Bobby, my "spiritual leader" gave a great sermon the other day". "You should come to my church and here my "SPIRITUAL LEADER". My Spiritual Leader is the best Spiritual leader if ever there was a prize for spritual leaders". THis term is NOT used in casual conversation please!!!!
     
  12. JustAsking

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,249
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ohio
    Yes, I know, but by default, one's Pastor is one's spiritual leader, unless one chooses another one. But I do get your point. When someone announces to the world that a particular person is their spiritual leader, they are definitely making a statement.

    One thing every Pastor will tell you is that any particular sermon, taken out of context of all the rest of his sermons will be heretical. This is because a Pastor momentarily focuses on a particular point or two during a sermon, which has the effect of raising those points above others to a degree that is probably heretical.

    Also, drama and hyperbole are common in a preacher's sermon so it causes the sermon to be even more heretical when taken out of context. When you add the fact that Obama's UCC church has a long history of fighting social injustice for African Americans, it is not surprising that anger and drama can come out in some of the Pastor's sermons.

    I am not defending the Pastor's stuff, I am just saying that most effective sermons are provocative and disturbing. Otherwise they are just homilies. The job of all Pastors is to "comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable.". So don't be surprised when an African American Pastor says stuff that is really disturbing as he is railing against a couple hundred years of oppression.

    This particular Pastor has a history of some 30 years of selfless service to his black community. He has turned the world upside down to address poverty, hunger, drugs, and homelessness in his parish. This is what Obama has respected about this guy over the years. If you read Obama's books you will see how he has worked in the trenches for years trying to bring about social justice in the bombed out sections of Chicago, and he has worked hand in hand with people like this Pastor.

    People accuse Obama of being naive, but I think he is smart enough to know that one has to work with all kinds of people to bring about social change. An angry, militant, and sometimes hyperbolic Pastor who is a huge force for change in his parish is one example.
     
  13. jeepman87

    jeepman87 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2006
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah. Obama and his Church seem to be getting him into some trouble. First the life time achievement award to Louis Farrakahn, and anti semite stating that he "truly epitomized greatness." Now this with his spiritual leader damning America. And i agree, the term spiritual leader seems to play more than just a pastor congregation relationship. Oh and I believe a month or two ago his wife made a negative statement about America also. I don't really know if this will effect him however, because I really don't think that his supporters care what he stands for, they just Hate Bush so much.
     
  14. HaagenDazs

    HaagenDazs New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male

    Oh yea. I forgot. You're the one whose lived in Chicago and who has been to that church so many times you could have been a member. And you're the one who knows whether or not the members of that church use "spiritual leader" as a replacement for "pastor".

    I apologize. See, I thought me actually having been there so many times, and having spoken with that pastor and sat with those members would ofer me some room to speak on what terms they use. And I thought my being a former member of the black Christian community would give me license to explain what terms we use in alot of churches.

    Forgive me. How wrong I have been.

    Carry on with your ranting.
     
  15. Freddie53

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    7,285
    Likes Received:
    60
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The South, USA
    It is getting old blaming the Clinton camp for all of Obama's "troubles." Clinton has had her "troubles" and so has McCain. If a person runs for president, "troubles" are going to happen. It is a given. I digress here to point out that Obama's "troubles" are not much different than any other presidential candidate of late. They all catch hell.But nothing that I have seen about Obama is something that required any special investigation or is not available to anyone who was willing to look for it.

    I looked up Obama's church on the web and read all about it. I'm sure the reporters had all done the same thing some time in the past. What really catches my attention is "Why Now?" Why didn't the media report this information when they discovered it? The press has been sitting on it now for a while. I'm just a retired teacher with nothing but an Internet connection and the younger generation that comes around laughs at my inability to navigate on the computer, and I found Obama's church's web site all by myself.

    Google Trinity United Church of Christ Chicago, ILL. Every thing you want to know about the church is right there to read.

    I will say that the press as usual is taking a few selected sections from the pastor's sermons and makes it appear that the pastor is much more radical than he really is. The signature of the white fundamental churches has been that America is going to hell in a hand basket because America's morals have dropped so low. According to those right wing fundamental TV preachers, God himself will send a nation over here to destroy us for being so bad. I'm not sure as I haven't heard the entire sermon, but I suspect that in his own way this preacher was doing something similar but much more radically spoken.

    And this is coming from a loyal Clinton supporter. However, just because I am a Clinton supporter doesn't mean that I am against Obama. it just means that I favor Clinton. It really disturbs me that some in the Clinton camp and some in the Obama camp are hell bent on destroying the Democratic Party if they can't get their way. It is if my favored candidate can't win, then let's sabotage the entire Democratic Party's 2008 campaign. And what then? Enter John McCain who will stay in Iraq another 100 years if we "need" too. Borrow another trillion dollars from China and finish bankrupting our entire economy except of course for the assets of the very rich who will own it all when McCain gets another eight years of what we have been through since Bush was crowned king.

    Do those in either the Obama or Clinton camps really prefer McCain if their favored candidate can't get the Democratic nomination? I hope this is not the case. There is a whole lot at stake than just Clinton and Obama. There is control of the House and Senate, governors' races and then all those state offices throughout the 50 states.

    We are going to need everyone rowing if this boat is going to get there next year.
     
  16. HaagenDazs

    HaagenDazs New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    And what's wrong with them making negative statements about America???

    Is it anti-patriotic to make a negative statement about your country...if your country has a plethora of negative things wrong with it.

    These days it seems Patriotism means to blindly praise the country even as it falls to corruption. To state a qualm, and call the country out on it's evil or negativity, seems to be looked upon as anti-American.

    Well this country has had a history of turning a blind eye to evil...so maybe it is anti-American to call the country out on negativity and not blindly praise it.
     
  17. jeepman87

    jeepman87 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2006
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    No nothing wrong with it. Free speech is good. But I am not voting for someone who surrounds himself with people that hate america. Thats just me though. Call me Crazy. But I have feeling I am not alone.
     
  18. b.c.

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    9,266
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,671
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    at home
    "As it gets closer to "crunch" time, expect the racists (on both sides of the line) to "come out". The ones who know they are, the closet racists, and the "I'm not a racist but" crowd."
     
  19. HaagenDazs

    HaagenDazs New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    But that's the thing. Most of what they would call the liberal/radical people who say negative things about America, DON'T hate America. They just hate what the country becomes.

    I love what America was MEANT to be. I don't love what it has become.

    There's a difference between hating America, and hating the negativity of America and wanting a change. And there are a plethora of people who can't seem to tell that difference.

    Again, it's like it's anti-patriotic to claim there's something wrong with this country.

    BINGO!!!
     
  20. Domisoldo

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    4,079
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Hmmm! Tempting argumentation but shouldn't it apply universally then?

    This sorry affair reeks of double standards:

    Had Clinton's "spiritual leader" (no matter how otherwise selfless and philanthropic) made an equally "hyperbolic" white supremacist statement, the "old-fashioned guilt by association" would apply with a probability in the neighborhood of 100.00%.

     
Draft saved Draft deleted