Obama's Own Administration: Obamacare Raises Healthcare Costs

[FRE]

I'm sure that the health care bill will have problems. It is impossible to pass major legislation without later finding that it has unintended consequences. But, that's no excuse to do nothing.

As problems are found, the law can be amended to fix them. It could take more than a decade to do that; there are precedents.

Anti-trust laws were enacted beginning with the Sherman Act in 1890. It did not solve all the problems it was intended to solve, so over the decades, additional anti-trust acts were passed which helped to solve the problems with earlier acts. I don't doubt that the same thing will happen with health care; it has to be expected.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^Indeed. One only has to look at financial market regulation for that lesson... When have we ever stopped having to reform the perpetually diabolical financiers?

I personally think the time has come to regulate many industries in a new way; instead of telling an industry what they can't do, and leave open the possibility of all things never before imagined, I think it's time to invert the regulatory process and strictly tell them what they can do, and outlaw everything else that deviates in any way from those narrowly defined parameters... If they want to 'innovate the market', then they will have to make the case to society that change is necessary, and only then will legislators amend the law to allow new concepts to occur.

Kind of like how we regulate prescription drugs.

 

[conntom]

Interesting to watch how you all act in threads which you disagree with...


At least in OH YEAHs response I can see and understand where he is coming from. I just think the idea that the gov't alone is the solution is misguided.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

I just think the idea that the gov't alone is the solution is misguided.

And conversely, many of us think that having to bribe corporate owners/operators to actually honor their obligations with the prospect of perpetually higher profits or government handouts isn't just misguided, but is also unethical and even reckless. Especially since we've already tried things that way countless times, and have been burned every single time.

 

[FRE]

^Indeed. One only has to look at financial market regulation for that lesson... When have we ever stopped having to reform the perpetually diabolical financiers?

I personally think the time has come to regulate many industries in a new way; instead of telling an industry what they can't do, and leave open the possibility of all things never before imagined, I think it's time to invert the regulatory process and strictly tell them what they can do, and outlaw everything else that deviates in any way from those narrowly defined parameters... If they want to 'innovate the market', then they will have to make the case to society that change is necessary, and only then will legislators amend the law to allow new concepts to occur.

Kind of like how we regulate prescription drugs.

I understand your position. However, we must be careful not to go to the opposite extreme and over-regulate. That would stifle innovation and economic growth. Finding the right balance point is a never-ending problem.

Many people who complain about regulations and controls on the part of government overlook the oppressive nature of many companies; they can be just as bad as governments. One good example is health insurance companies, but there are also many other examples.

P.S. - you have a very impressive photo; a standard sheet of paper is 8.5" wide, so the paper in the photo provides a good idea of what you are packing.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

I understand your position. However, we must be careful not to go to the opposite extreme and over-regulate. That would stifle innovation and economic growth.

When the benefactors of "innovation and economic growth" are by and large limited to the owners and their financiers, why should society at large give a toss anymore? A rising tide should raise all boats, not just the oligarchs that have manipulated the rules of the marketplace to favor themselves at the expense of all other participants.

Society doesn't exist because corporations give us a job... Corporations exist because we allow them to. But with that existence comes responsibility, and if the corporate owners eschew those responsibilities, then society has every right to shut them down and allow better players to compete for their place in the market.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

P.S. - you have a very impressive photo; a standard sheet of paper is 8.5" wide, so the paper in the photo provides a good idea of what you are packing.

Thanks, but inevitably I also leaned over the paper, and couldn't comfortably get my cock down that low to the table, so it's a bit overstated. I'm more like 7.75-8" top measured.

(just noticed that I forgot to include my measurements when posting the 2nd pic (which I had to reload because the thumbnail keeps screwing up, and I see it is again)

Edit: re-uploaded and now the pic shows a thumbnail again...Let's see how long it works this time! lol

 

[D_Portelay Porquesword]

The report is from The Dept. of Health and Human Services CMS in Obama's administration



The report comes from actuaries in Obama's administration who crunched the numbers and told the truth. The CBO has reported that Obama's healthcare reform will increase costs as well. Your disbelief is merely your high from the Obama kool-aid.

Foster's analysis

Since when did common sense equate to a sugar high from Obama kool-aid?
That's the problem, it doesn't. More propaganda from the nutty tree.

Get a grip Trinity, these things take time. It was one of the first things Obama referred to in his acceptance speech. We have someone in office that is TRYING.

I support anyone who chooses to not only swim up stream but also, consciously chooses to make the effort to give back instead of take take take. I see that in Obama. These writings are pushed forward in order to disrupt and take away from all the good that is trying to be set into place.

Clinton/Gore made the effort to do the same thing. While in office they put out of control spending in it's place. 2,500.00 for chair rollers manufactured for the US Army by a company that was over charging the US Government. Ridiculous much?

That is all I need to say on the matter. I am not about to go tail chasing around in circles with someone who's political views are clearly limited to what is placed in front of them.

 

[FRE]

Thanks, but inevitably I also leaned over the paper, and couldn't comfortably get my cock down that low to the table, so it's a bit overstated. I'm more like 7.75-8" top measured.

(just noticed that I forgot to include my measurements when posting the 2nd pic (which I had to reload because the thumbnail keeps screwing up, and I see it is again)

Edit: re-uploaded and now the pic shows a thumbnail again...Let's see how long it works this time! lol

7.75" is still very impressive; I'm only 7" myself. Once I was with a guy who was about 8", but that's very unusual.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^It's the thickness the ladies rave about... especially once it's in deep, cuz the last few inches of my cock increases to 6" and even 6.25" around.... I love that it's deceptive because I have a fairly small cock head relative to the girth of the rest, so even a BJ doesn't reveal what they're in for. Muahahahaa! (evil laugh)

 

[Trinity]

I'm sure that the health care bill will have problems. It is impossible to pass major legislation without later finding that it has unintended consequences. But, that's no excuse to do nothing.

As problems are found, the law can be amended to fix them. It could take more than a decade to do that; there are precedents.

Anti-trust laws were enacted beginning with the Sherman Act in 1890. It did not solve all the problems it was intended to solve, so over the decades, additional anti-trust acts were passed which helped to solve the problems with earlier acts. I don't doubt that the same thing will happen with health care; it has to be expected.

What a bunch of ridiculous rubbish. "As problems are found...the law can be amended to fix them..." Did you really say that? Are you really asserting that? These aren't tiny fixes to an unforeseen consequence. These are out and out lies told by Obama:

Obama, Pelosi and the Dems stated repeatedly that their healthcare reform would reduce the deficit and reduce costs and reduce premiums. If it doesn't do that then they are bold face liars. Period.

They attempted to sell a mess of bills, refused to listen to the American people who were against their reform and then forced through completely flawed mess.

No. Their garbage won't be fixed after the fact to do what it was supposed to do to begin with. It will be replaced with proper healthcare reform legislation that will actually work.

Since when did common sense equate to a sugar high from Obama kool-aid?
That's the problem, it doesn't. More propaganda from the nutty tree.

Get a grip Trinity, these things take time. It was one of the first things Obama referred to in his acceptance speech. We have someone in office that is TRYING.

Obama appears to be TRYING to break the U.S. economy by deficit spending and with bad policy.

Clinton/Gore made the effort to do the same thing. While in office they put out of control spending in it's place. 2,500.00 for chair rollers manufactured for the US Army by a company that was over charging the US Government. Ridiculous much?

President Clinton reduced the deficit. Obama is going in the wrong direction with everything he puts his hands on. Obama's signature legislation of healthcare reform is shown to be a fallacy of lies. It doesn't reduce the deficit - it increases it.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

You can take the Clinton dildoe out your ass now, Trinsanity.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

What a bunch of ridiculous rubbish. "As problems are found...the law can be amended to fix them..." Did you really say that? Are you really asserting that? These aren't tiny fixes to an unforeseen consequence. These are out and out lies told by Obama:

Oh, you're always reliable for a chuckle or three...

I know it's hard for you to admit that laws can be tweaked over time to be made more effective, because it pretty much renders moot your entire viewpoint on insurance reform, but reality is what it is shweetums.

 

[mikeyh9in]

What a bunch of ridiculous rubbish. "As problems are found...the law can be amended to fix them..." Did you really say that? Are you really asserting that? These aren't tiny fixes to an unforeseen consequence. These are out and out lies told by Obama:

Obama, Pelosi and the Dems stated repeatedly that their healthcare reform would reduce the deficit and reduce costs and reduce premiums. If it doesn't do that then they are bold face liars. Period.

They attempted to sell a mess of bills, refused to listen to the American people who were against their reform and then forced through completely flawed mess.

No. Their garbage won't be fixed after the fact to do what it was supposed to do to begin with. It will be replaced with proper healthcare reform legislation that will actually work.



Obama appears to be TRYING to break the U.S. economy by deficit spending and with bad policy.



President Clinton reduced the deficit. Obama is going in the wrong direction with everything he puts his hands on. Obama's signature legislation of healthcare reform is shown to be a fallacy of lies. It doesn't reduce the deficit - it increases it.

Yes, and the Republican plan was "let the market take care of itself... the insurance companies say that they can control costs best... we should listen to them."

That happened to be the same line of bullshit that the Republicans fedd us back in 1993/94... do you remember that?

And let's just examine how well that worked for us? How well did cost control from the insurance companies work from 1993 to 2010?

All we got from the insurance companies was rescission, 40% rate hikes, and CEO's making $8+ Million per year!

Trinity... we tried the republican solution for 15 years. I for one call it a complete failure.

 

[B_Nick4444]

Health care reform is still needed. Obamacare needs to be replaced with real healthcare reform.

As for your premiums...the reports go into great detail to explain that they will go up.

Rep. Camp

Indeed

But that would mean a restructuring of the regulations private carriers operate under, and the dismantlement of Medicare, Medicaid, et al

 

[conntom]

Indeed

But that would mean a restructuring of the regulations private carriers operate under, and the dismantlement of Medicare, Medicaid, et al

What's wrong with that?

 

[B_Nick4444]

What's wrong with that?

not a thing ... but just raise the suggestion, and see what happens ...

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^I wouldn't exactly call that a plan... More like a checklist of things that will never happen politically, unless the replacement provides even better care to even more people than the Dem plan does... Good luck with that! We already know the Republican counter proposal to the Dem HCR plan was a pathetic joke.

So, what's better about this plan you're proposing?

 

[deleted15807]

I wouldn't exactly call that a plan...

The Master Plan all along is the dissolution of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security and to get rid of taxes on rich people. Ohh and throw in tort reform so you can't sue the rich and toss in 'regulatory relief' so all the brakes are off the train. And when it runs off the track taking the entire town out so what? The rich don't live near the tracks.

 

[TurkeyWithaSunburn]

not a thing ... but just raise the suggestion, and see what happens ...

You get teaparty people saying less government and keep your hands off medicare and social security :biggrin1:

Oh come on you've seen the signs they have, they don't even realize the seeming incongruity in their statements.