Obama's Own Administration: Obamacare Raises Healthcare Costs

[Trinity]

^lolololololol... Why are you so obsessed with Obama? You realize that CONGRESS wrote the law, right? Obama just signed the damn thing.

Frankly, if you want to bitch about the law we've got, you should direct the bitching at Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and filibustering Senatorial Republicans. Of course, they're not black, and they're not the ones who kicked the shit out of Hillary Clinton, so I can understand why you would wrongly focus your angst on Obama.

Obama called it Obama's Plan and it is called such on the White House website. That's why it's called Obamacare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUNCpnRBf9o

Obama can't now separate himself from his signature legislation. Obama reluctantly held the Healthcare summit and he was told about everything in both reports - that his legislation would not do as intended but he refused to listen.

Obama is supposed to be the leader. The buck stops with him. Obama actually pledged not to sign healthcare reform if it added to the deficit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tBIAFWu648

Since, Obama was warned prior to the legislation passing...that is a promise he failed to keep from either arrogance or stupidity.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Or in other words, you have no response to questions people have asked of you in response to your rants, so you're back to trolling the thread by regurgitating the same BS over and over, with the hope apparently being that everyone else will just give up, and you won't have to admit that you have nothing to add to the discussion, you're just here to piss and moan and generally destroy the forum.

 

[Trinity]

Or in other words, you have no response to questions people have asked of you in response to your rants, so you're back to trolling the thread by regurgitating the same BS over and over, with the hope apparently being that everyone else will just give up, and you won't have to admit that you have nothing to add to the discussion, you're just here to piss and moan and generally destroy the forum.

Or in other words, you have no response to questions people have asked of you in response to your rants, (Failing to answer simple questions posed to you is your MO) so you're back to trolling the thread by regurgitating the same BS over and over, (Your post is yet another rant off the topic because you were shown to be wrong regarding absolving Obama from his own signature legislation) with the hope apparently being that everyone else will just give up, (That appears to be your motivation) and you won't have to admit that you have nothing to add to the discussion, (You don't provide anything but cursing, name calling and references to sex acts or genitalia and you can't admit you lack substance and quit while you're behind) you're just here to piss and moan and generally destroy the forum (That's what YOU are here to do in a thread when 2 valid reports from respected agencies with clear statements report that Obama's legislation is flawed and will cause damage to healthcare and the economy. You can't defend the legislation or Obama so you go to cursing, name calling, referring to sex acts, genitalia and throwing the trolling card and the race card.)

 

[b.c.]

...Your assertion that citizens must do Mr. Obama's job by presenting a healthcare reform plan that works when Mr. Obama is unable to do it...for the privilege of leveling criticism of his job performance is ridiculous.

Hey, it's YOU who said we need healthcare reform (in post no. 6 I think?) and you've preceded and followed that with criticism of the current plan.

It's not a matter of doing PRESIDENT Obama's job for him. It's a matter of "putting up" (a better plan) or "shutting up".

If all (his opposition) can do is criticize without offering a solution or a better plan, then what F**king GOOD ARE THEY??

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Or in other words, you have no response to questions people have asked of you in response to your rants, (Failing to answer simple questions posed to you is your MO) so you're back to trolling the thread by regurgitating the same BS over and over, (Your post is yet another rant off the topic because you were shown to be wrong regarding absolving Obama from his own signature legislation) with the hope apparently being that everyone else will just give up, (That appears to be your motivation) and you won't have to admit that you have nothing to add to the discussion, (You don't provide anything but cursing, name calling and references to sex acts or genitalia and you can't admit you lack substance and quit while you're behind) you're just here to piss and moan and generally destroy the forum (That's what YOU are here to do in a thread when 2 valid reports from respected agencies with clear statements report that Obama's legislation is flawed and will cause damage to healthcare and the economy. You can't defend the legislation or Obama so you go to cursing, name calling, referring to sex acts, genitalia and throwing the trolling card and the race card.)

Ok, since you're suddenly claiming to be interested in an honest, straightforward debate, then what specifically would you change about the current reform law? What is your proposed endgame to the healthcare issues that this country faces?

Answer the question, or admit that you're just here to troll the forum and prevent other members from being able to engage in an honest, straightforward debate.

 

[Trinity]

Hey, it's YOU who said we need healthcare reform (in post no. 6 I think?) and you've preceded and followed that with criticism of the current plan.

It's not a matter of doing PRESIDENT Obama's job for him. It's a matter of "putting up" (a better plan) or "shutting up".

If all (his opposition) can do is criticize without offering a solution or a better plan, then what F**king GOOD ARE THEY??

Wrong. It is not for the average American citizen to do Obama's job for him or they must "shut up." Sitting in the oval office, Obama has access to all of the information and experts that the average American Citizen does not. To assert that we must come up with a plan that works or not criticize what the CBO and Obama's own Dept. of Health and Human Services now agree with the Republicans won't work, is truly silly.

A majority of the American people rejected Obama's healthcare reform plan on a number of specifics. We've discussed them in this forum. The American people asked Obama, the Democrats to "Kill the bill and Start Over." The American people did not say "We will write the legislation because we know the ends and outs of the Dept. of HHS, and We know how to regulate the insurance industry."

What the American people do know is that you can't cut 500 Billion from Medicare and add 34 million people to the mix and have it reduce the deficit. HHS CMS reports and the CBO back that up now.

Stop trying to assert responsibilities on average Americans and raise your standards for leadership in power. Obama is supposed to present the plan that works. That's his job. If he can't do it, the quip "oh, but can you "Joe Six Pack" do better?" won't work. The American people will find someone else who can actually get the job done right.

Ok, since you're suddenly claiming to be interested in an honest, straightforward debate,

Nope. *sigh* That appears to be you...with this "different tone" "turning over a new leaf" post.

then what specifically would you change about the current reform law? What is your proposed endgame to the healthcare issues that this country faces?

Answer the question, or admit that you're just here to troll the forum and prevent other members from being able to engage in an honest, straightforward debate.

I've been here discussing politics since the last presidential election...before there was a politics forum. I have been engaging in honest, straightforward debate by expressing my opinions, views and positions and backed up my posts with citation from articles.

So grasshopper, throughout the healthcare debate I have been posting. All you have to do is do a search and read for the answer to your question.

Kill the bill and Start Over

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Nope, you obviously have no interest in answering the questions of others... You're still in this inexplicable mode where you think the way it works is you spew ridiculous angry nonsense over and over and over, and expect everyone here to say, "Wooow! You're sooo right!"

lolololololol

 

[b.c.]

Wrong. It is not for the average American citizen to do Obama's job for him or they must "shut up." Sitting in the oval office, Obama has access to all of the information and experts that the average American Citizen does not. To assert that we must come up with a plan that works or not criticize what the CBO and Obama's own Dept. of Health and Human Services now agree with the Republicans won't work, is truly silly.

As you well know (well, then again, perhaps I give you too much credit) I was not suggesting that the average citizen come up with a better plan. I was speaking of his opposition from those in Congress who supposedly represent us.

A majority of the American people rejected Obama's healthcare reform plan on a number of specifics. We've discussed them in this forum. The American people asked Obama, the Democrats to "Kill the bill and Start Over." The American people did not say "We will write the legislation because we know the ends and outs of the Dept. of HHS, and We know how to regulate the insurance industry."

Where is you source on this allegation that a majority of the American people reject the current plan? Present poll averages show a 47% opposition a 41% approval with the remainder either undecided or no opinion. Pollster.com: Health Care Plan: Favor / Oppose

Hardly a "majority" even after all the persistent Republican campaigns of hate, distortion, lies, scare tactics, and plain old fashioned whining.

What the American people do know is that you can't cut 500 Billion from Medicare and add 34 million people to the mix and have it reduce the deficit. HHS CMS reports and the CBO back that up now.

From Timothy Noah’s article on Slate.com:

“The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010 was projected, at the time of its passage, to cut the budget deficit by $143 billion over 10 years. Now it looks like a more plausible estimate would be closer to $113 billion.”

and...

“The fact is we can't know the precise extent to which the health reform law's tax increases, Medicare spending cuts, and new spending will balance out, because there are too many variables. But given the roughly $113 billion in government spending it currently looks like the bill will save, it seems a safe bet that Obamacare will be able to finance itself over the next decade. That's no minor accomplishment.”

and this recent update on the apparent source of your whine...

“Update, May 13: The CBO, apparently realizing it did a lousy job explaining all this on the first go-round, has posted further explanation here and here.”

Stop trying to assert responsibilities on average Americans and raise your standards for leadership in power. Obama is supposed to present the plan that works...

He did that. Right wingers f**ked with it. Now you want to “kill the bill and start over”? When?? And since you want to start over, from where?

Any f**ing ideas?? Anyone??

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^I've got all kinds of ideas... But like Trinity proclaimed herself... The complainant goes first... lololololol

 

[Trinity]

As you well know (well, then again, perhaps I give you too much credit) I was not suggesting that the average citizen come up with a better plan. I was speaking of his opposition from those in Congress who supposedly represent us.

Obama held the healthcare summit and acknowledged that the Republicans presented their plan of ideas. Obama decided to take only a few ideas to look like he was attempted to work with Republicans. He then proceeded with his set agenda for healthcare reform that adds to the deficit, raises premiums, will damage medicare and the economy.

If Obama had actually been willing to compromise with the other party, then perhaps a better piece of legislation would have passed. Obama and Democrats are solely responsible for that legislation as no Republicans voted for it and they put every effort to work with Obama get better legislation which he rejected.

Rep. Paul Ryan made the case quite clearly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InimsXo9mc4

Where is you source on this allegation that a majority of the American people reject the current plan? Present poll averages show a 47% opposition a 41% approval with the remainder either undecided or no opinion. Pollster.com: Health Care Plan: Favor / Oppose

Hardly a "majority" even after all the persistent Republican campaigns of hate, distortion, lies, scare tactics, and plain old fashioned whining.

RealClearPolitics Average 4/5-5/10 40.9 Favor 51.5 Oppose

That's a majority. Also a majority wants Obamacare repealed:

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 56% favor repeal of the law, while 39% are opposed. Support for repeal is unchanged from a week ago.That support is also proving to be just as consistent as opposition to the health care plan before it was passed into law.

Rasmussen

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^Just a thought... With all of this anger and hatred you spew against a man you label as a liar, where is your own lawsuit against Obama?

lololololol

 

[sbat]

^Just a thought... With all of this anger and hatred you spew against a man you label as a liar, where is your own lawsuit against Obama?

lololololol

I have it on good authority that Trinity has a dildo with Obama's face on the head. What she does is work herself into such a frenzy that the orgasms are incredible and she's even given herself a seizure on occasion.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

The link that b.c. has provided is one of the best for poll data I have ever seen. It not only takes into account the few sources that people like to exploit, but many others as well.

 

[b.c.]

Obama held the healthcare summit and acknowledged that the Republicans presented their plan of ideas. Obama decided to take only a few ideas to look like he was attempted to work with Republicans. He then proceeded with his set agenda for healthcare reform that adds to the deficit, raises premiums, will damage medicare and the economy.

If Obama had actually been willing to compromise with the other party, then perhaps a better piece of legislation would have passed. Obama and Democrats are solely responsible for that legislation as no Republicans voted for it and they put every effort to work with Obama get better legislation which he rejected.

Rep. Paul Ryan made the case quite clearly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InimsXo9mc4



RealClearPolitics Average 4/5-5/10 40.9 Favor 51.5 Oppose

That's a majority. Also a majority wants Obamacare repealed:
Rasmussen

Yeah, there's an unbiased source for you. Some notes on Real Clear Politics (from Wikipedia):

"RealClearPolitics is an American non-partisan political news and polling data aggregator... Some have suggested the column selection is conservative leaning, but the site includes columns and commentary from both sides of the spectrum."

"In an interview with the conservative magazine Human Events, [owner/founder] McIntyre described the philosophy behind the Web site as based on "freedom" and "common-sense values." Said [owner/founder] Bevan, "We think debate on the issues is a very important thing. We post a variety of opinions." He further stated, "we have a frustration all conservatives have", which is "the bias in media against conservatives, religious conservatives, [and] Christian conservatives."

............. PU-LEEESE.

"When Nate Silver of rival site FiveThirtyEight.com claimed RealClearPolitics.com was rigging its averages to favor Senator John McCain and other Republicans, McIntyre denied having a conservative bent..."

Yeah, maybe not "bent", just f**kin' WRONG.

"New York Times conservative columnist David Brooks said, "Some people wake up every morning with a raw egg and exercise. I wake up every morning with RealClearPolitics.com."

I'll bet.

 

[Bbucko]

Yeah, there's an unbiased source for you. Some notes on Real Clear Politics (from Wikipedia):

"RealClearPolitics is an American non-partisan political news and polling data aggregator... Some have suggested the column selection is conservative leaning, but the site includes columns and commentary from both sides of the spectrum."

"In an interview with the conservative magazine Human Events, [owner/founder] McIntyre described the philosophy behind the Web site as based on "freedom" and "common-sense values." Said [owner/founder] Bevan, "We think debate on the issues is a very important thing. We post a variety of opinions." He further stated, "we have a frustration all conservatives have", which is "the bias in media against conservatives, religious conservatives, [and] Christian conservatives."

............. PU-LEEESE.

"When Nate Silver of rival site FiveThirtyEight.com claimed RealClearPolitics.com was rigging its averages to favor Senator John McCain and other Republicans, McIntyre denied having a conservative bent..."

Yeah, maybe not "bent", just f**kin' WRONG.

"New York Times conservative columnist David Brooks said, "Some people wake up every morning with a raw egg and exercise. I wake up every morning with RealClearPolitics.com."

I'll bet.

RCP is hardly unbiased. It's a center-right alternative to Talking Points Memo, which is decidedly center-left. Both take occasional pot-shots at the most egregious examples of hypocrisy and corruption from their respective sides of the aisle, but neither could really be accurately described as "non-partisan", let alone unbiased.

Much the same could be said about Politico, though they tend to track even more centrist-yet-conservative. I'm rather fond of The Daily Beast, which genuinely hates everybody equally.

 

[Industrialsize]

I read Latest Articles for the sheer entertainment.

 

[Trinity]

RCP is hardly unbiased. It's a center-right alternative to Talking Points Memo, which is decidedly center-left. Both take occasional pot-shots at the most egregious examples of hypocrisy and corruption from their respective sides of the aisle, but neither could really be accurately described as "non-partisan", let alone unbiased.

Much the same could be said about Politico, though they tend to track even more centrist-yet-conservative. I'm rather fond of The Daily Beast, which genuinely hates everybody equally.

You guys use RealClearPolitics polls when it suits you. He asked for proof and he got it. RealClearPolitics averaged some of the same polls that Pollster.com used.