Obama's war on whistleblowers.

B_underguy1

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Special Reports

The Obama Administration and the Press
Leak investigations and surveillance in post-9/11 America
U.S. President Barack Obama came into office pledging open government, but he has fallen short of his promise. Journalists and transparency advocates say the White House curbs routine disclosure of information and deploys its own media to evade scrutiny by the press. Aggressive prosecution of leakers of classified information and broad electronic surveillance programs deter government sources from speaking to journalists. A CPJ special report by Leonard Downie Jr. with reporting by Sara Rafsky

The Obama Administration and the Press - Reports - Committee to Protect Journalists
 

B_underguy1

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Don't expect many responses to this one.

Yeah, I figured that. There are no hypocrites quite in the same league as these faux liberal hypocrites running around carrying Obama's water for him.

They're every bit as delusional as the Tea Party.
 

StormfrontFL

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Yeah, I figured that. There are no hypocrites quite in the same league as these faux liberal hypocrites running around carrying Obama's water for him.

They're every bit as delusional as the Tea Party.
Perhaps the reason no one is weighing in is because of how many of those who post here feel about you? I've read many posts from individuals(liberal and conservative) who have clearly stated that they feel you are too argumentative and condescending to waste their time with.

Since I am not posting how you are absolutely correct about everything you state I am sure that you will follow your pattern of calling me a tool of the government and hurl other insults.

Try to heed the old saying about catching more flies with honey. More people are likely to listen to your views if they don't feel that anything less than abject agreement will be met with derision.
 

B_underguy1

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Perhaps the reason no one is weighing in is because of how many of those who post here feel about you? I've read many posts from individuals(liberal and conservative) who have clearly stated that they feel you are too argumentative and condescending to waste their time with.

Since I am not posting how you are absolutely correct about everything you state I am sure that you will follow your pattern of calling me a tool of the government and hurl other insults.

Try to heed the old saying about catching more flies with honey. More people are likely to listen to your views if they don't feel that anything less than abject agreement will be met with derision.

Well if they keep saying that it must be true I suppose? Quantity trumps quality.

And I bet that you can't see the irony in your post. Or the obvious strawman.
 

StormfrontFL

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Well if they keep saying that it must be true I suppose? Quantity trumps quality.

And I bet that you can't see the irony in your post. Or the obvious strawman.
And thank you for proving my, and their, point.

I welcome your views however I do see that you tend to be very insulting and apparently very negative. If you keep getting the same comments from different people then perhaps you might consider that there is some validity in their views.

I won't share my opinion of your topic because I have no desire to feed into your self important game you enjoy playing. As I stated before, anything less than total agreement with your views is seen as being unintelligent or the result of being a tool of big business and the powers that control the world so why play your game.
 

B_underguy1

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And thank you for proving my, and their, point.



The irony is that you attacked me. And that is what they do. Attack first and then complain when they get a less than glowing response.

And there's nearly always the strawman of "how you are absolutely correct about everything you state". And "self important game".

Seriously wtf?

It's pathetic that grown adults carry on like this.

I'm not a "liberal or conservative", so why would I behave in your narrow constricted fashion? Are you so frightened of ideas from outside your narrative?
 
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B_underguy1

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“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....”


― Noam Chomsky
 

Eric_8

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“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....”


― Noam Chomsky

While we disagree about practically nothing, I agree with this 100%.

I certainly understand how you rub people the wrong way, as I do the same quite frequently (enough to get reported for petty insults haha). However, I do not for a second buy that as the reason for people not responding to the content of your initial post. There is simply no legitimate defense than can be made.
 

StormfrontFL

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While we disagree about practically nothing, I agree with this 100%.

I certainly understand how you rub people the wrong way, as I do the same quite frequently (enough to get reported for petty insults haha). However, I do not for a second buy that as the reason for people not responding to the content of your initial post. There is simply no legitimate defense than can be made.
Hypocritical much?

Funny how you post that instead of putting those one disagrees with on ignore it is more mature to just not respond to their posts and yet when people take that advice you claim there is no defense for the silence.
 

B_underguy1

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While we disagree about practically nothing, I agree with this 100%.

I certainly understand how you rub people the wrong way, as I do the same quite frequently (enough to get reported for petty insults haha). However, I do not for a second buy that as the reason for people not responding to the content of your initial post. There is simply no legitimate defense than can be made.

I'm old, grumpy and know it.

I'm also experienced enough to know that the 'civility' thing is BS. It doesn't work. It just winds you up in the framing that they want to restrict the argument to i.e. No new ideas from outside the comfort zone.

It's like the Brave New World meets 1984 meets The Matrix.

The world isn't like the tellybox (whether Bill O'Reilly or fecking Rachel Madow) is telling them.
 

B_underguy1

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Hypocritical much?

Funny how you post that instead of putting those one disagrees with on ignore it is more mature to just not respond to their posts and yet when people take that advice you claim there is no defense for the silence.

It's mature to ignore people whose views don't coincide? Really?

The enlightenment is truly over.
 

Eric_8

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Hypocritical much?

Funny how you post that instead of putting those one disagrees with on ignore it is more mature to just not respond to their posts and yet when people take that advice you claim there is no defense for the silence.

LOL! Not even close to accurate.

It is MORE mature, though I don't believe I ever said it was the ideal choice. It is most mature to engage in debate with a person with whom you disagree while maintaining a reasonable level of civility.

If you're going to respond, why not do so about the topic at hand, as opposed to responding to say why you won't respond?

I would ask you to provide proof that brands me a hypocrite. I have a sneaking suspicion I already know the "proof" you'll come with, despite the fact that it's already been debunked.

To any that are interested, please make note that my previous response to Underguy meant to say everything, not nothing.
 
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StormfrontFL

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The irony is that you attacked me. And that is what they do. Attack first and then complain when they get a less than glowing response.

And there's nearly always the strawman of "how you are absolutely correct about everything you state". And "self important game".

Seriously wtf?

It's pathetic that grown adults carry on like this.

I'm not a "liberal or conservative", so why would I behave in your narrow constricted fashion? Are you so frightened of ideas from outside your narrative?
The irony is that you have done everything you are accused of and yet claim to not have.

I've never responded to any of your previous posts because I felt no desire to get involved in the bickering between you and the others. I only stated what was perhaps a reason and instead of taking that and trying to discuss it you claim to be under attack.

Just some more to show why you have the rep that you do

Do you like anywhere? Are you ever positive abut anything?

May be it is best you stay in NZ or perhaps follow Christian Fletcher.

I think the rest of us have a doom and gloom limit.

You do know of course that credit means believing. That is what I mean about being positive. Not the neoliberal whatever you wallow in against.

Obviously we are all stupid automatons at the behest of some extra terrestrial lizard king race posing as humans but really the illuminati controlling our concepts of reality. Hey, maybe I am one trying to double bluff you with my stupidity.

You thought I was stupid to suggest that there may be some fundamentals when we have done agreeing to value shit as diamonds. I think maybe you just get off on patronising everyone because they haven't signed up to your view of reality. Because, Pal, it is still just a view, like an arsehole, that everyone has.

Is that really necessary? You've shown that you're very confused about the issues that you are commenting on.

So you resort to ad hominem ranting.

No. You are rude and patronising. Furthermore you make incorrect sweeping comments and then instead of admitting that you were going too far, see above re surpluses being bad, you then change what you said, see the structures that create surpluses are bad. You do it time and time again and it is very irritating and not half as clever as you like to think.

You are clearly confused about the meaning of an ad hominem attack. I am not attacking you instead of addressing your argument, I am stating that your argumentative style is deceitful, rude and patronising. There is no arguing with you because you never hold to what you say for more than five minutes. You clearly have repressed anger issues with the world.

Talk about projection.

You clearly have no clue whatsoever about any of these things and you're just throwing insults about to cause annoyance and/or cover up your lack of knowledge.

Before that. Hmmm......? There you go again.

Look, I am leaving this. I don't know what you hope to gain from being a member here, but so far you have been at least 80% antagonistic in one way or another. I don't have a problem with conspiracy theories, they are a bit like myth to me in that somewhere there is some truth, but you do not wish to discuss your ideas, rather you have just put down everyone else in a patronising let alone incorrect manner.

I like many others here have far more knowledge of the world than you know and to be told that we are confused or don't know what we are talking about by someone who has not made any serious contribution to this site is frankly bad manners, and I can tell you for certain, that manners cost nothing.

and when Perados posted something you disagreed with

Yes well, your neoliberal neoclassical views are impossible to argue with anyone who actually knows a bit about the subject.

You remind me of the neoclassical economics professor who stated that "if the facts don't fit the model, then the facts must be wrong".

When someone even dared to suggest that you try to tone down your argumentative nature you took that as an attack and proudly stated that you would never back down.


I completely reject the appeal to civility. It is a tactic. A censorship tactic.

I note that you chose not to impose the same 'rules' on the circle of posters who were entirely uncivil and worse toward me, to whom I responded in kind.

Nor do you impose documentary proof for their whacky ideas.

As for "balance". Absurd.

Time to do what others on here are doing with your posts....pretend they don't exist
 

blazblue

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It's mature to ignore people whose views don't coincide? Really?

The enlightenment is truly over.

Well I don't speak for anyone here but I tend to put people on ignore when it makes sense like for people here who are racists...

You're gay and white and you're prejudiced

And for people who think Obama's still a Kenyan socialist Manchurian candidate despite your issues against him

Outside Opinions Can Be Enlightening

And for people who think we no longer need morality

Why Do We Need "Morality"?

But I guess in your eyes that wouldn't matter since those views don't coincide with my own and would automatically make me a immature hypocrite. :rolleyes:

And what is this "enlightenment" you're talking about? When did it begin?
 

Eric_8

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It's mature to ignore people whose views don't coincide? Really?

The enlightenment is truly over.

I believe Storm's basing his response about my reaction to Vince's failed attempt at collusion.

Misguided, and incorrect, but not nearly as bad as that post makes it seem.
 

StormfrontFL

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I'm old, grumpy and know it.

I'm also experienced enough to know that the 'civility' thing is BS. It doesn't work. It just winds you up in the framing that they want to restrict the argument to i.e. No new ideas from outside the comfort zone.

It's like the Brave New World meets 1984 meets The Matrix.

The world isn't like the tellybox (whether Bill O'Reilly or fecking Rachel Madow) is telling them.
Therein lies your problem. I was open to your views(and I'm sure others were too) however why would anyone want to participate in a conversation with someone who looks on them as if they were intellectually inferior? Telling someone that if they disagree with you they are a puppet or a drone isn't the way to encourage discussion.
 

B_underguy1

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The irony is that you have done everything you are accused of and yet claim to not have.

I've never responded to any of your previous posts because I felt no desire to get involved in the bickering between you and the others. I only stated what was perhaps a reason and instead of taking that and trying to discuss it you claim to be under attack.

Just some more to show why you have the rep that you do













and when Perados posted something you disagreed with



When someone even dared to suggest that you try to tone down your argumentative nature you took that as an attack and proudly stated that you would never back down.




Time to do what others on here are doing with your posts....pretend they don't exist

Lol. You pick the moment that history starts in every case.

This is absurd.

They don't like their "truths" being defeated so they resort to whining/attacking. And then complain at the response.
 

B_underguy1

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Therein lies your problem. I was open to your views(and I'm sure others were too) however why would anyone want to participate in a conversation with someone who looks on them as if they were intellectually inferior? Telling someone that if they disagree with you they are a puppet or a drone isn't the way to encourage discussion.

This is yet another strawman. Saying something is wrong is not telling them they are stupid.

Propaganda works best when its targets don't see it.
 

StormfrontFL

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LOL! Not even close to accurate.

It is MORE mature, though I don't believe I ever said it was the ideal choice. It is most mature to engage in debate with a person with whom you disagree while maintaining a reasonable level of civility.

If you're going to respond, why not do so about the topic at hand, as opposed to responding to say why you won't respond?

I would ask you to provide proof that brands me a hypocrite. I have a sneaking suspicion I already know the "proof" you'll come with, despite the fact that it's already been debunked.

To any that are interested, please make note that my previous response to Underguy meant to say everything, not nothing.
My proof is in your many diatribes about bc placing you on ignore. It's also in your advice to just ignore the posts of those who are clearly trolling. How is it different for the other posters on here who have issues with UG to just not respond to his thread?

Since you are seemingly intent on instigating tonight I will ask you why you ignore my first post to UG and focus on my second? I never stated my opinion on the topic in the first, I simply responded to a statement made by you as to why no one was responding. When UG accused me of creating a strawman I then made it clear that whatever my opinion on the topic I was not going to share it for the reasons I had stated.

Any animosity in this thread is a direct result of your attempt to stir up any anti Obama feelings tonight. You claim to disagree with UG on everything but an opportunity to hurl insults at Obama or liberals was just to good for you to pass up. You know that I'm right about why many regular posters haven't responded to the thread but it's more fun for you to try to stir crap up