Obamascare could bankrupt the country - MA State Treasurer over Mass Care

[Randll86]

The country is not bankrupt. There is just no political will to right the nations finances. If on one side of the equation people demand that government keep providing services while on the other side of the equation the same people do not want to pay for it, therein lies the problem and throw in the ability to cover this inconsistency by borrowing the money and you have a problem. War is free, tax cuts are free, everything is free. Well no it isn't.

Actually, if you were to use the same criteria for the government that as for a individual or a corporation, you would find the government has been bankrupt for sometime now. Fuck it...where is my guitar...this politics stuff hurts my brain.:wink:

 

[B_dxjnorto]

From what I can see, as things get bigger, you move toward socialism. California has been a socialized state for years. So maybe there's a lesson there, but other countries seem to be able to afford their health care. I think our warmongering and fearmongering are the among the worst things happening in the U.S. now and forever.

 

[deleted15807]

Actually, if you were to use the same criteria for the government that as for a individual or a corporation, you would find the government has been bankrupt for sometime now. Fuck it...where is my guitar...this politics stuff hurts my brain.:wink:

Bankruptcy is when you do not have enough money to pay off your debts. America is not there....yet. If the government decided to increase taxes and decrease expenditures then the debt would begin going down given the economy isn't tanking. But as soon as any politician mentions tax increase the public doesn't want to hear it. If a politicians mentions cutting services the public doesn't want to hear that as well. Additionally cutting expenses usually means also cutting jobs. Can the private sector absorb those job losses? Most likely not. So there you have it political suicide.

 

[Sergeant_Torpedo]

Don't worry: your medicos will fall into line. Government will do what it did in Europe - stuff their maws with gold. It is the only ethics that physicians and surgeons know. Remember, the US needs lots of canon fodder, you need HEALTHY poor young people to fight your globalization wars. People in Europe respect their doctors because most of them are in it to heal people. I say most for obvious reasons.

 

[Industrialsize]

Nancy Pelosi loves pissing off teabaggers. Here she is linking arms with John Lewis, just like in the Selma march, to remind America of how teabaggers chanted “nigger” at John Lewis fifteen times yesterday. And if anyone gets in her way, she will smash their skulls into sandhills of calcium with her Weapon, the “1965 Medicare gavel,” forged by ancient socialist hobbits in a distant epoch, as a paean to Thor.

YouTube - Pelosi walks with 1965 Medicare gavel

 

[deleted15807]

A historic day. A historic bill. The neo-cons and their enablers must be under the sheets uhhh covers crying their eyeballs out now. Repeal the bill!!! It's unconstitutional!! States rights!!! Socialism here we come!!! It was rammed down our throats!!!

 

[lucky8]

So if people cannot currently afford healthcare, and this bill will raise individual plan costs (it already has and it's not even law yet), how exactly are these people going to pay for insurance when it's even more expensive than it is now? Furthermore, how are they going to pay the hefty fine when they don't buy it? Universal insurance seems the ethical thing to do, but I just don't get the logic here

 

[B_Nick4444]

Universal insurance seems the ethical thing to do, but I just don't get the logic here

that's because there is no logic to the idea

libtard nonsense inspired by the Bolshevik Revolution, so a failed idea in its entirety, suitable for the insectoid, Euro vassalage societies

 

[deleted15807]

So if people cannot currently afford healthcare, and this bill will raise individual plan costs (it already has and it's not even law yet),

And your data is where?

 

[lucky8]

And your data is where?

My insurance just went up 25% and I haven't used it in 3 years...

 

[deleted15807]

My insurance just went up 25% and I haven't used it in 3 years...

So when something goes up in price it's government's fault?

 

[B_Nick4444]

in the case of health care, yes

see: http://www.mass.gov/Cago/docs/healthcare/Investigation_HCCT&CD.pdf

"...The commercial health care marketplace has been distorted by contracting practices
that reinforce and perpetuate disparities in pricing...."

 

[deleted15807]

in the case of health care, yes

see: http://www.mass.gov/Cago/docs/healthcare/Investigation_HCCT&CD.pdf

"...The commercial health care marketplace has been distorted by contracting practices
that reinforce and perpetuate disparities in pricing...."

A.) The original post had postulated that his costs have gone up based on a bill that is not even law yet.

B.) There is nothing in that document that blames government for health care costs increases. And actually the document is a good reason why private health care insurers should exit the business. These practices are downright onerous.

• For example: 'providers with market leverage are able to obtain contractual provisions that prohibit or inhibit insurers from creating limited network products and/or tiered products that might steer patients away from them'.
• We have found a widespread practice of major insurers making supplemental payments to providers, which are payments in addition to contracted or scheduled rate payments. These payments, which do not include pay-for-performance quality or utilization bonuses, include lump sum cash payments, signing bonuses, infrastructure payments, as well as bad debt or government payer shortfall payments
• Payment parity agreements are agreements in which a provider organization agrees not to charge an insurance company more than the price that it charges that insurance company’s competitors. Our review has shown that parity agreements are pervasive in the industry, and have been used, at some time and in some form, whether in contractual provisions enforceable with a third-party audit or less formal understandings, by several major health plans in
  Massachusetts. While insurance companies seek payment parity to remain competitive and gain market share, such agreements may lock in payment levels and prevent innovation and competition based on pricing. Parity clauses may decrease competition among providers by reducing their incentive to offer lower prices to insurers. Likewise, parity clauses may reduce insurers’ incentive to bargain with providers, since rival insurance companies with parity provisions would obtain any price savings. Parity clauses may also deter entry to the marketplace since any discount would have to be passed on to insurers already in the market.

 

[lucky8]

So when something goes up in price it's government's fault?

Yes, political risk is one of the risks associated with business operations. Source: Every textbook I have ever read. You're seriously going to argue this? I even heard B Frank confrim my initial claim on NPR a couple weeks ago...

 

[B_Nick4444]

A.) The original post had postulated that his costs have gone up based on a bill that is not even law yet.

B.) There is nothing in that document that blames government for health care costs increases. And actually the document is a good reason why private health care insurers should exit the business.

• For example: 'providers with market leverage are able to obtain contractual provisions that prohibit or inhibit insurers from creating limited network products and/or tiered products that might steer patients away from them'.
• We have found a widespread practice of major insurers making supplemental payments to providers, which are payments in addition to contracted or scheduled rate payments. These payments, which do not include pay-for-performance quality or utilization bonuses, include lump sum cash payments, signing bonuses, infrastructure payments, as well as bad debt or government payer shortfall payments

I hope you recognize what you just (implicitly) admitted ...

 

[B_Nick4444]

this just in (or to be more accurate, I just came across this):



Some states, anticipating the bill's passage, are moving to block its requirement that nearly everyone must buy health insurance, with subsidies if necessary. Democrats say this is a crucial part of reining in health costs, but opponents contend it exceeds the government's authority.
Idaho and Virginia have already enacted laws blocking the insurance mandate, and Arizonans will vote on a similar ballot measure in November. In Missouri, Oklahoma and Tennessee, a bill has passed one chamber of the legislature.
In all, at least some action to block the insurance requirement has been taken in 38 states, according to the American Legislative Exchange Council, an organization of conservative state legislators

GOP Plots Strategies to Nullify Health Bill - WSJ.com

 

[lucky8]

...and seriously, how are poor people going to afford insurance? I work with several people who want insurance, but can't even afford it through work...either that or it's 1/2 their paycheck, and it's not like these people waste their money on shit they can't afford, because they don't. All of their money goes to supporting their children. These are the EXACT kind of people liberals are trying to help, but how the hell are they going to afford it? I just want to know

 

[B_Nick4444]

one of the ways they plan on "paying" for it, is by raising the taxes on small business -- the largest generators of jobs in our economy

which means less jobs

(odd way to help)

 

[HazelGod]

one of the ways they plan on "paying" for it, is by raising the taxes on small business -- the largest generators of jobs in our economy

which means less jobs

(odd way to help)

Please cite the section of the legislation that supports this contention.

 

[deleted15807]

I hope you recognize what you just (implicitly) admitted ...

No please Donald Duck it for me.

...and seriously, how are poor people going to afford insurance?

Take a little time and read the bill.