Ogamacare= Death Panels, without question.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Wyldgusechaz, Sep 15, 2009.

  1. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    There is no other way to control medical costs. Lets use Teddy Kennedy and Patrick Swayze as examples.

    Glioblastoma and pancreatic cancer are grim diseases. They are a death sentence. In order to prolong what is the inevitable, upwards of $500,000 to $1,000,000 was spent on each of these men to give them one year extra of life. Any prudent public option will have to have a death panel (as Sarah Palin said it, blunt but accurate) to avoid wasting money on lives with no future.

    Problem is, people want to live forever. Ted Kennedy had radical surgery to try to extend his life at inordinate tax payer cost. Obama wants to set up "end of life" counseling groups. In order to save money Kennedy should have chosen this than try to live when his diagnosis was so grim. No one save a scant few live over a year with that disease. We will need a death panel to help patients understand the limits of their disease and accept their death rather than waste precious dollars on a life with no future.

    If Pres. Obama does not admit his "end of life counseling" panel is really a death panel it is a lie.

    edit: Obamacare, not Ogamacare
     
  2. Principessa

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    My God but you're an asswipe! :irked:

    Why must you trumpet the same lies and bullshit over & over again? Do you really think we are gonna rollover and say, "Gee, Wyldgusechaz was right." :confused:

    I don't see why people like you are crying over death panels when we already have them, and have for years. What do you call it, when an insurance company denys treatment to an ill and/or elderly person until it's too late to help them? In many instances the medicine and therapys are available; but someone(s) at the HMO has decided that persons life is not worth saving. So they are denied treatment. What do you call that? I call it a death panel; and it is wrong no matter who is in the oval office. :mad::cool:
     
    #2 Principessa, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
  3. unabear09

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    you know how much of an asshole you have made yourself to be? "Any prudent public option will have to have a death panel (as Sarah Palin said it, blunt but accurate) to avoid wasting money on lives with no future."


    Who the fuck are you to determine if a persons life is a waste of time and money?

    Put yourself in Teddy Kennedy's or Patrick Swayze's shoes. Would you or should you be denied treatment if you were to be diagnosed with a terminal disease?

    Do you know just how much Kennedy and Swayze have done to bring awareness to their illnesses?

    It sounds like your own personal opinion is misconstruing the facts.

    I'm sorry but you've just royally pissed me off with this thread. On a personal note, my mother was diagnosed with a terminal blood disease (myodisplastic anemia) a few years ago....and from the way you speak in your thread...well her life is a waste of time and money.

    Jerk
     
  4. unabear09

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    AMEN my friend. This asshole has really pissed me off...and that takes a lot!
     
  5. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    No you are the asswipe. Sorry. Given that we can't save or help everyone, that there are limits to what we can pay for, we have to be blunt honest. At $24/shot, $1,000,000 would have paid for 40000 flu shots or children's immunizations.

    I know you know better but cut the bullshit. We can't help everyone. You KNOW that.

    You know for a damn fact we can't pay for everything, so quite grandstanding as some holier than thou saint just to seem sympathetic and a good person, when in fact if we try to pay for everything as a pollyanna like you might, we will end up paying for nothing as we go bankrupt.

    Medicare has a $37 trillion unfunded liability per Mr Obama. His own words, his own math. the entire US GDP is about $13 trillion/year. So if every single cent we ever earned meaning everyone in America went w/o pay for 2 years, we would still be underfunded.

    Cut the shit and tell me how to find $37 trillion in savings in an already existing government plan, extend it to all uninsured and then tell me we won't need rationing. What a dolt.
     
    #5 Wyldgusechaz, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
  6. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    I am sure you are very concerned about your mother. However, if she has a terminal diagnosis, we, the people cannot be.

    And disease awareness? How does that help, when there are kids going w/o immunizations?
     
  7. Pendlum

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    Those insurance companies though, they'd be happy to shell out that cool million to keep you alive for a year!
     
  8. Principessa

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    Can't we? Why not? :confused: Did you see this article in the New York Times, 'U.S. Cost-Saving Policy Forces New Kidney Transplant' ?


    You don't have to go to medical school to understand that any transplant patient will need anti-rejection meds forever. Forever being the duration of their life. Stopping the meds after 36 months is beyond stupid.
     
  9. TurkeyWithaSunburn

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/health/policy/14kidney.html?em
    Interesting medicare will pay for a $100,000 transplant but only 3 years of anti-organ-rejection drugs. The woman in the article is having a SECOND transplant because of the rule. And once the transplant is complete the 36month clock starts ticking. It would have been cheaper to just pay for her drugs.

    There aren't gonna be death panels, insurance companies already do that by preventing treatment or even discouraging treatment. If you look at healthcare spending the amount of money spent on end of life treatment is astronomical. The amount spent on preventative care is paltry in comparison.

    We could always just force insurance companies to take on a certain amount of the over 65, and the poor. And then there really WOULD be death panels, because of the profit motive.
     
  10. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Nice story. Thats an anecdote. and it adds nothing to the conversation about the finite limits of medical care and its costs.

    How many people here would work for free for 3 years, with no money for food and shelter and heat, just to pay off Medicare's real unfunded liability? See the problem?
     
  11. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    NJQT here is another way of looking at it. No matter how you slice it, we as individuals have to earn enough money to pay for our last days on the earth and our medical care. The top 1-2% of Americans earned in total about $500 billion/year. If you took every cent, every red cent, left them w/o food or shelter and you did that for 75 years, Medicare would still be underfunded, IN TODAY"S DOLLARS. In some way shape or form, we as individuals have to create enough productivity to pay our way. If you NJ have not created a surplus of say $100000 to pay for your death, your neighbors have to foot the bill. But since you are gone who will pay for them when its their turn?

    You accused me of lying. Where? find my so called lie, please. Drop a charge then step up and prove I am wrong.

    BTW I am not crying over "Death Panels." As stated they exist now and will exist in the future. Lets be honest about them. We need them. We need them to say ," I am sorry, but in a world of finite limits, we can't help everyone, so Mr Kennedy, the million dollars that will cost to keep you alive for one year, will be better spent on saving the live of a mother of 3 kids with breast cancer, plus pay for child immuniztions for the poor children"

    I know you think as a Pollyanna socialist, there is other people's money for everything. That would be funny if it weren't so delusional.
     
    #11 Wyldgusechaz, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
  12. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    I would like to ask at what point exactly does taxpayer money cover medical costs? Is it just for those without insurance or does it extend further than that?
     
  13. D_Pat O'Gonia

    D_Pat O'Gonia New Member

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    Okay, I just wanna jump in this firey debate since I'm from Canada. We have governement operated health care, and its pretty good. Is it curing everyone? Of course not! Do we complain about long wait lists and little problems with the system? Hell ya! But, do we feel comfortable that if something terrible was to happen that we would be taken care of without going into the poorhouse? Yes, I do, and so do most Canadians.

    People from the US always talk about government run health care like it is some logistical nightmare that will never work. The fact is that it works better than the US's current system, and in many countires around the world.

    Try to stop being afraid of changes that will help you out.
     
  14. VeeP

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    This is a completely foreign concept to Americans as they are accustomed to the "freedom" of obtaining immediate treatment when they become ill. People become terminal and/or die on wait lists, and it's reflected in considerably lower serious illness survival rates on nationalized health systems. If you cool with that, then great, but as OP implies, we are a "save at any cost" society.
     
  15. HazelGod

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    Gee, ya think perhaps we ought to take a look at what's causing the cost of medical care to reach such heights and make some changes to bring them down? I wonder why nobody considered that aspect before? :rolleyes:
     
  16. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    I won't even dignify the OP with a response other than this.
     
  17. SilverTrain

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    I know, right? It's so great that I can just hop on my unicorn and fly over to the hospital and have that procedure done same-day, paid for with the petty cash in my wallet.

    Thank goodness I'm one of the tycoon superheroes.
     
  18. SilverTrain

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    But seriously.

    You willfully create the false dichotomy in order to play the fear card.

    Anyone who wants to, can KEEP THEIR CURRENT HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

    Only those electing a public option would even be in the realm of your argument. And anyone who currently has the "freedom" to pay for a great health care coverage, will certainly continue to have that "freedom" in the future under any reform plan.

    So, give it up. Yours is not a viable, legitimate argument to make. It instead comes off as uninformed at best, or deliberately mendacious.
     
  19. Industrialsize

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    Really? I have top of the line health insurance. My Primary care doc determined I needed to see a specialist.....I had to wait 6 months for an appointment. The specialist determined I needed some tests. I had to wait another 3 months for tests.
     
  20. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Nice Greek chorus response. What an asshole. Instead of finding facts that rebut my post, you just SAY its undignified.

    Cmon, loser, prove me wrong. Prove my numbers are wrong. Prove that Obama did not say that Medicare will grown to eat up every nickel in America.

    I'll wait. But of course you won;t answer because I am right.
     
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