Ogamacare= Death Panels, without question.

SilverTrain

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Posts
4,623
Media
82
Likes
1,312
Points
333
Location
USA
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
Uh oh. A psuedo intellectual

Here is the market cap for Halliburton in its stock page: $23 billion.
HAL: Summary for HALLIBURTON CO - Yahoo! Finance


Thats the entire value of the company. the book value is likely lower. Sell the whole frickin company and you get $23 billion. Not even a grain of sand with the numbers Obama is putting out.

And if H is such a gravy train why is its share price only $25? Put up $2500 and you can get in on that mythical gravy train.

Deal in fact, not some liberal wishing well, please, or you look like a fool.


The point wasn't how much of that money could effectively be used for healthcare.

The point was, of the people who are now objecting to the cost of health care reform, how many objected to taxpayer money paying millions and billions to line the pockets of what amounted to mercenaries and slumlords in Iraq.
 

Wyldgusechaz

Experimental Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Posts
1,258
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
183
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
The point wasn't how much of that money could effectively be used for healthcare.

The point was, of the people who are now objecting to the cost of health care reform, how many objected to taxpayer money paying millions and billions to line the pockets of what amounted to mercenaries and slumlords in Iraq.

I call bullshit. Please provide proof for that claim of slumlords and mercenaries by a reputable source. If not thanks for playing.
 

Wyldgusechaz

Experimental Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Posts
1,258
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
183
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
You stupid tool

Kennedy had GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE

As do ALL the republicans who oppose it.
You want to get better healthcare? FORCE legislators to enroll in the SAME healthcare WE get. I agree.
The Constitution demands equal treatment under the law, and congressional healthcare is something they enacted as LAW..
I want what they get... the best singlepayer healthcare plan in the world.


And suggesting the the counseling portion of the bill... which was ALREADY passed into medicare by REPUBLICANS who AUTHORED it... means death panels is sheer stupidity on its face. It is? Prove it. What exactly are end of life counseling empowered to do? What is there reason for existence? It is to make patients understand the nature of their disease and get them to accept more limited care.

You can not demonstrate one single instance, nor any language in the bill even remotely supporting that statement.
Its just something you are parroting that was made up by a healthcare corporation shill.

Either you Know this is a stupid fear tactic, and are, therefore, irresponsibly amoral...
Or you honestly believe this idiocy, in which case you are unconscionably stupid.

Either way... it reflects pretty badly upon you.

Um who is the fool? You are. Always have been, always will be. Unless you can tell me what an "end of life counselor" is supposed to do.
 
D

deleted213967

Guest
Yeah, logopedic otolaryngologists should be just as accessible as general practitioners. :rolleyes:

Cut the semi-sarcastic BS. You're completely wasting your time with me.

A medical condition can progress considerably in a 9-month period, and for the worse, thereby vastly increasing the total cost of treatment.

I would have considered another medical provider,
another plan or another medical insurer altogether.

I don't consider my private plan "top-of-the-line", but I never had to wait more than 8 weeks for a specialist (less than that most of the time) and certainly not 3 months for a mere test. The results were available on-line too.

It is not even in a private insurer's interest to delay diagnosis, since a positive identified too late may mean more aggressive and far more costly treatment.
 

SilverTrain

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Posts
4,623
Media
82
Likes
1,312
Points
333
Location
USA
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
I call bullshit. Please provide proof for that claim of slumlords and mercenaries by a reputable source. If not thanks for playing.

Do you just mimic phrases you've heard previously? I mean, honestly.

It would seem advisable for you to lay aside that propagandist literature for a few moments, breathe in the world for awhile, try to develop some "sense" of the world. Seriously.
 

Wyldgusechaz

Experimental Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Posts
1,258
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
183
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
Do you just mimic phrases you've heard previously? I mean, honestly.

It would seem advisable for you to lay aside that propagandist literature for a few moments, breathe in the world for awhile, try to develop some "sense" of the world. Seriously.

you can't cite one link and you call me on propaganda? Comical. I did a yahoo search using these words: Halliburton/slum lords/mercenaries and did not find one iota of anything, not even any wacko liberal blog info. Zilch, nada, nil.

Here is the link to your nothingness.

halliburton iraq slumlords mercenaries - Yahoo! Search Results

You are completely full of shit and I proved it. Now run along sonny and go play in the sandbox while the big kids figure out the truth.
 

SilverTrain

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Posts
4,623
Media
82
Likes
1,312
Points
333
Location
USA
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
you can't cite one link and you call me on propaganda? Comical. I did a yahoo search using these words: Halliburton/slum lords/mercenaries and did not find one iota of anything, not even any wacko liberal blog info. Zilch, nada, nil.

Here is the link to your nothingness.

halliburton iraq slumlords mercenaries - Yahoo! Search Results

You are completely full of shit and I proved it. Now run along sonny and go play in the sandbox while the big kids figure out the truth.


Wow.

Do you wanna come play in our poker game on Saturday nights?
 

Bbucko

Cherished Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Posts
7,232
Media
8
Likes
325
Points
208
Location
Sunny SoFla
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
I seriously cannot believe that anyone has their panties in such a serious bunch over Living Wills. This is just insane.
 

mitchymo

Expert Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Posts
4,131
Media
0
Likes
100
Points
133
Location
England (United Kingdom)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
In Great Britain, medical costs for their public option go down for the elderly because they are basically forced to accept their fate. In America, medical costs skyrocket for the elderly because they will spend anything to stay alive. See the problem?

Absolutely true, held at gunpoint if we refuse to believe nothing can be done! :confused:

To the best of my great british knowledge ANYTHING that can be paid for on the NHS can be given to ANYONE as long as they are considered physically fit enough to survive an operation for example a patient may be asked to lose weight if it is deemed too risky but our healthcare does not refuse treatment on the basis of age and the assumption that it would be a waste of money, why?, because their job is to save lives.

If a person is terminal then anything that can be done to prolong life will be done, the only exception to this is with prescription drugs which we buy out of our own pocket unless on benefits and are then only accessible if our local hospital trust has supply because each region buys only what they can justify in their budget. This so called 'postcode lottery' is a bone of contention but apart from that the NHS works well.

I don't see why the US does'nt try it, our government is having like i imagine many a problem where the elderly population is growing and effectively placing a bigger burden on the health service but money can be saved and alterations made.

Here as i said to Domisoldo (thanx for pm'ing me a response to my earlier question) the age of retirement is being considered to be lifted by 5 years to help ease the strain.

Also, doctors backed a ban on smoking in public places to help cut down related illnesses/diseases/deaths and there may be a new move to hide cigerette products behind a counter so people cannot see them which is helpful to those trying to quit.
They now want to ban alcohol advertising to try and reverse the culture of binge-drinking which is also a burden on the health service.

And also i was shocked about free health care for members of Congress, why are they so special?
 

Wyldgusechaz

Experimental Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Posts
1,258
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
183
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
Absolutely true, held at gunpoint if we refuse to believe nothing can be done! :confused:

To the best of my great british knowledge ANYTHING that can be paid for on the NHS can be given to ANYONE as long as they are considered physically fit enough to survive an operation for example a patient may be asked to lose weight if it is deemed too risky but our healthcare does not refuse treatment on the basis of age and the assumption that it would be a waste of money, why?, because their job is to save lives.

If a person is terminal then anything that can be done to prolong life will be done, the only exception to this is with prescription drugs which we buy out of our own pocket unless on benefits and are then only accessible if our local hospital trust has supply because each region buys only what they can justify in their budget. This so called 'postcode lottery' is a bone of contention but apart from that the NHS works well.

I don't see why the US does'nt try it, our government is having like i imagine many a problem where the elderly population is growing and effectively placing a bigger burden on the health service but money can be saved and alterations made.

Here as i said to Domisoldo (thanx for pm'ing me a response to my earlier question) the age of retirement is being considered to be lifted by 5 years to help ease the strain.

Also, doctors backed a ban on smoking in public places to help cut down related illnesses/diseases/deaths and there may be a new move to hide cigerette products behind a counter so people cannot see them which is helpful to those trying to quit.
They now want to ban alcohol advertising to try and reverse the culture of binge-drinking which is also a burden on the health service.

And also i was shocked about free health care for members of Congress, why are they so special?

What you say does not jibe with this commentary. who is right?

Rupert Darwall: Government Medicine vs. the Elderly - WSJ.com
 

mikeyh9in

Cherished Member
Joined
May 31, 2004
Posts
322
Media
4
Likes
342
Points
293
Age
55
Location
San Francisco (California, United States)
Gender
Male
It is all part of the Republican scare machine. They want nothing to change. I don't blame the Trinity's, or WildGooseChazez, or any of the other folks here regurgitating whatever Glen Beck or Dick Armey's Freedom Work says... I truly believe that they believe they are defending America.

Their ignorance is that they believe that if they wait long enough under a Republican administration things will/are better. The problem is that Republicans want things to stay the way they are, no new anything. They want the the Health Insurance companies to continue doing what they are doing. They want Wall Street to continue doing what it is doing. They want their money to stay with them. They have no desire to see "regular" Americans advance in any way, because that opens the possibility of change. And for Republican's, change is evil.

Republican tactics have been the same for decades... demonize change in any way possible.

Why call it "Living Wills" or "End of Life Counseling", when you can call it "Death Panels"... which is easier to scare people with?

One thing they did want changed was the estate tax... something that 98%+ of American estate's will never pay. But to get more support from their base, they changed it to "Death Tax".

So, I don't *blame* the "little people" Republicans, they are just being scared by the guys with the real power and money.

What we should blame is the American education system for producing such poorly educated citizens that believe the Republican horse shit.


I seriously cannot believe that anyone has their panties in such a serious bunch over Living Wills. This is just insane.
 

mitchymo

Expert Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Posts
4,131
Media
0
Likes
100
Points
133
Location
England (United Kingdom)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
What you say does not jibe with this commentary. who is right?

Rupert Darwall: Government Medicine vs. the Elderly - WSJ.com

I am inclined to say that I am actually.

If an elderly person is being kept alive in hospital with drugs and care that could not be provided at home then it is not irrational to except that the prolonging of life is not going to lead anywhere. Who is going to say 'please keep me alive for as long as possible so i may stay for a few more weeks in this lovely hospital?' I would rather go sooner than later if that is all i had to look forward to.

Also the report does not take into account the 51% of healthcare professionals (1996 poll so likely much higher figure now) which said they would help with assisted suicide and 16.5% ONLY if a case was terminal. How many of the 16.5% of those who died of terminal sedation actually asked for their medication to be withdrawn? That figure is not known and it does happen which cuts into the figure quoted.

83.5% dying without withdrawal of sedation is a pretty impressive figure showing health care is provided to the last breath.

If the US system does'nt work then the UK model is worth considering because the vast majority of people here are happy with the NHS.
 

Ericsson1228d

Experimental Member
Joined
May 22, 2005
Posts
579
Media
0
Likes
2
Points
236
Location
MI, USA
Gender
Male
Anyone who wants to, can KEEP THEIR CURRENT HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

Realistically, and I mean *really* cut the party line bullshit, how can Obama guarantee that? I have yet to hear one reasonable statement that support this assertion. And face it, the 8% penalty for not providing health care is less than many companies spend on health care today, so why would they keep providing it, if it makes more "business sense" to drop it and pay the penalty.

Seriously, give me one way he can guarantee that?

Make the penalty a 25% tax and then companies will stick with their in-place plans, but he has no plans to do that. Why? Because he wants a SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM, as shown on MANY YouTube clips.